"Best" wedge(monitor)

Re: "Best" wedge(monitor)

Eric Cagle said:
That is completely true for maybe 99% of the time but MONITORS built and RECOMMENDED by a national soundman known for telling it like it is and bashing anything that does not make the cut would most likely be in that 1%. I trust that if they weren't good enough he would have blown them up himself long before they ever made it to a rider issue.
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This is a very true statement. :lol: I sure don't sugarcoat anything. The SRX still seems to be the front runner "bang for the buck," with a few other options close behind.

DIY is a VERY possible option. Hell, half of my "A" rig is DIY. I've looked into the 12" coax wedge on these forums. Maybe I haven't heard a "proper" coax wedge, but I've never been impressed with the designs I've heard. Something about a coax wedge just doesn't scream LOUD to me. It says "pretty" and "nice sounding." That 1.5/2" & 12" wedge combo never fails to rip my face off. I'm not concerned about SQ as much as I am pure SPL and stability at max SPL. I'm primarily doing rock shows that require balls to the walls SPL, with the occasional quieter gig that requires a nice "looking" and decent "sounding" wedge- which can always be accomplished with some EQ.

Let's drift off into the DIY world for a second... Assuming I can scavenge up some time to actually build something(things are busier than ever right now), what's everyone thinking?

Let's have some fun with this and see where we end up. Here's what I'd IDEALLY like to end up with if I build something:

-LOTS of SPL from 100hz+ (going lower is a bonus, and really only needed at moderate volumes)
-SMALL(ish): Let's try to keep this around the size of an SRX712m(as I really like that form factor)
-Mirrored pairs
-Bi-amp only(let's keep this simple)
-Light(ish) 60lbs seems reasonable, right?
-Not stupid expensive or complicated to build

Let's set a cost of $700 or less to build each wedge, anything more and I could just buy something similar.



...And go!




Evan
 
Re: "Best" wedge(monitor)

Depending on the size of the show, monitors are less of a rider issue than everything else. What I usually see on national riders is "bi-amped" and occasionally 15". I have been out with some really loud national bands and never had a complaint with anything I have used. Nobody has turned down a microwedge even on the riders asking for a 15" driver. For that matter nobody has ever turned down any of the big homebuilt boxes. All of the larger boxes I have used in the last 15 years are homebuilt although some of the actual cabinet work was done by QMS on one set of 8 and then loaded and processed by my friend who had them built.

The real bottom line is that they have to be loud, clear, and able to cover their zone properly. I like the horn on top designs for the mirrored pair and I don't mind the taller form factor. If you are really trying to stay lower to the ground you cannot beat the Microwedges. It does take a little getting used with placement to because they throw a more upright pattern than a conventional wedge but they will absolutely rip your head off for such a small box as far as volume is concearned.
 
Re: "Best" wedge(monitor)

Eric Cagle said:
That is completely true for maybe 99% of the time but MONITORS built and RECOMMENDED by a national soundman known for telling it like it is and bashing anything that does not make the cut would most likely be in that 1%. I trust that if they weren't good enough he would have blown them up himself long before they ever made it to a rider issue.
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That is a valid and rational point. I guess I have seen too many riders that did not seem so rational!
 
Re: "Best" wedge(monitor)

Eric Cagle said:
That is completely true for maybe 99% of the time but MONITORS built and RECOMMENDED by a national soundman known for telling it like it is and bashing anything that does not make the cut would most likely be in that 1%. I trust that if they weren't good enough he would have blown them up himself long before they ever made it to a rider issue.
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The monitor acceptability would rely on the artist management or engineer knowing who Evan is. While Evan may be well-known, this is still not a safe bet.
 
Re: "Best" wedge(monitor)

Chuck Simon said:
That is a valid and rational point. I guess I have seen too many riders that did not seem so rational!
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I ALWAYS talk to the soundman or stage manager days or weeks before each gig and go over the equipment and room or stage. We make sure we are BOTH comfortable with the gear being used. I never, never, never, have had even one problem with a rider come show time because it has been worked out. I am usually familiar with the space and the guy with the act knows what they actually need to be comfortable.

This is a big one, MAKE SHURE THE RIDER AND STAGE PLOT ARE CURRENT! That is a problem I often run into that is easily corrected when I speak to a real person in charge.

The bottom line is if the monitors pass the Evan test I am sure they will be usable for the BE in charge of them. Who knows, It might actually be one of us on the forum. I would be fine with anything he would use for the application.

Silas, It wouldn't matter if the person in charge knew Evan or not. A couple of minutes speaking with him should convince them that he knows the gear and what will work well for the application. I never have any problems with that and we often decide on some gear that is not necessarily on the rider but is readily available and useful. I often use Mackie speakers for national acts for mains for some smaller applications if they will cover, granted they are the Fussion series. Think of all the "No Mackie" on riders. If I am actually talking to a real sound man it has not been a problem, and certainly not a problem after they use them.
 
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Re: "Best" wedge(monitor)

Eric Cagle said:
Depending on the size of the show, monitors are less of a rider issue than everything else. What I usually see on national riders is "bi-amped" and occasionally 15". I have been out with some really loud national bands and never had a complaint with anything I have used. Nobody has turned down a microwedge even on the riders asking for a 15" driver. For that matter nobody has ever turned down any of the big homebuilt boxes. All of the larger boxes I have used in the last 15 years are homebuilt although some of the actual cabinet work was done by QMS on one set of 8 and then loaded and processed by my friend who had them built.
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My knowledge on this subject is a little dated, but i tend to agree with Eric here. The Sound co. i worked for had a large complement of 'proprietary' wedges. yes, it sometimes took a little bit more conversation to have them be accepted. But frankly, the biggest stumbling block wasn't that they were proprietary, it was that they used 1" horns. Still, i don't even recall a time that we had to subrent wedges or lost a show because of it. Maybe it happened, but it was rare. Of course the real key was that the wedges were built well with quality components and well maintained, so the BE and/or the band always had a good day with them. In fact, we had quite a few folks want to buy some from us.

ultimately the Sound Co. bought a pile of SM500s just to satisfy the 'everything louder than everything else' crowd. But the proprietary boxes still saw a LOT of use for many years after that....
 
Re: "Best" wedge(monitor)

Since i'm weighing in on this subject i thought i'd add this. i absolutely HATE SRX712Ms! They are a great form factor. And i love the clever pole cup. But there is something about the horn in those that i cannot EQ out and i cannot stand to listen to. reminds me of that 'wax paper on a comb kazoo' we used to make when i was a kid. I know i'm in a very small minority here, so feel free to ignore me. I just thought i'd cast one dissenting vote just to make it more interesting... :)
 
Re: "Best" wedge(monitor)

Evan Kirkendall said:
The SRX still seems to be the front runner "bang for the buck," with a few other options close behind.
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Evan, the quote I got for the Radian 12" MW was less than what online retailers are asking for the JBL. The 15" was still slightly under the SRX712 street. There are also neo versions for a bit more money, but the 12" non-neo is at 56 lb. which matches your weight criteria. They operate either bi-amp or passive. Definitely worth a look.
 
Re: "Best" wedge(monitor)

remember this is the Lounge... The riders should be read as, "I need X number of monitor wedge mixes on stage."

Next weekend I'm working with a "national" touring act and their rider said 'monitor split required', 'no powered wedges' & '15/2 bi-amp wedge only'. Well due to the lack of budget from the promotor/organizer, they are getting dB Tech DVX DM12 wedges mixed from FOH. (its a Lounge budget show)
 
Re: "Best" wedge(monitor)

Peavey's QW series has R and L oriented monitor wedges that may be worth a look. My limited work with the QW tops and subs was pretty pleasant and brutally loud. As usual for Peavey, the whole QW series is a bit heavy, but ruggedly built.

I'd take the Peavey badges off and make some orange 'Evanco' badges just to keep the Peavey haters at bay.
 
Re: "Best" wedge(monitor)

The thing about anything that is not specifically listed as rider friendly: It is either a quality and worthy product or it is not. If it is a quality product and capable in the application then you are not trying to convince someone to take less, just something they have never tried. If it is lesser of a product and really won't get the job done then there should not even be a conversation about it.
 
Re: "Best" wedge(monitor)

Evan Kirkendall said:
Alright, I'm not really looking for the "best" wedge out there. But, I figured more people would click on the thread and argue with each other if I had a super exciting title like that. There's a reason this is in the JV board, and not upstairs.

I'm in the market for "new" wedges for my little Sound Co at home. Believe it or not- I have no idea what's great out there, because, well, I don't hardly ever use wedges, and the ones I like cost too much. My Yamaha CM12v's have served me great, but as I climb the ever growing ladder, I need something a little(or lot) better for those pesky riders.

My requirements are as follows:

-Compact(ish)
-Loud
-Light(ish)
-Can run in mirrored pairs (very important)
-Around $1k or less (used is very much so an option)
-Passive (bi-ampable)
-12" + a nice beefy horn
-Rider friendly(ish)


Powered wedges are not an option, please do not suggest them. I have plenty of amp power and processing available.

The first wedge that pops in to my head is the JBL SRX712m... Used price seems to be coming down, and they meet most(all?) of my needs. But, what else is out there?





Thanks!
Evan
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Hi Evan,

What’s interesting when you look at your specifications – it’s what almost everyone wants, but there are not that many wedges that satisfy all of your criteria.

The JBL SRX712m is close. As mentioned by Alex, Turbosound new TMW112 is very good. The sound quality is excellent; virtually no EQ need in monitor applications, but don’t know if it’s loud enough for you. I believe it uses a B&C 12HCX76 (or variant) which is about as good as it gets for a coaxial driver. Bi-amped it may do what you want.

The 15” TMW115 is still a good size and will produce a little more SPL but costs more.

http://www.turbosound.com/upload-files/File/datasheets/tmw112.pdf
http://bcspeakers.herokuapp.com/products/coaxial-neo/12-0/12hcx76
http://www.muzykaitechnologia.pl/website/var/tmp/thumb_22454__galeria_duze_r.jpeg

If you were in Australia I would recommend the Quest QM 12MP that Dave mentioned - They satisfy every one of your requirements, except they are not bi-amped, but it wouldn’t be difficult to change that. Plug a 58 in and turn it up, very little EQ needed and they get reasonably loud. http://www.questaudio.com.au/product_details/product/QM_12MP_2-way_Stage_Monitor
 
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Re: "Best" wedge(monitor)

Im just throwing this out into the wind, What about some of the EV Xw12A? Werent they the monitors for the X array rig? 3" horn 12" woofer, dual monitor angles for mirrored pairs and bi amp. I believe someone had the 12s and 15s in the marketplace for a while? They are dated but I believe you can get them for a decent price. Just thinking outside of some of the current options I guess.
 
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Re: "Best" wedge(monitor)

The JBL SRX712M is a good choice but for my money I would buy the Radian Apex-1200. It is a heck of a wedge when biamped and processed/powered correctly. They are very close in price and for riders which say "must have 2" HF" you don't have to convince them otherwise. For just a little more money you could look at the 15" version although to me there is negligible difference in LF extension.

Hal
 
Re: "Best" wedge(monitor)

I agree. I A/B'd the 712 with other wedges I had around...SM 500, Peavey QM, Radian 15" MW...admittedly all 15"/2" models but the 712 didn't give me enough of what I wanted plus it needed way more power than anything else.
I ran with QM's for years and never had anyone refuse them after we fired them up.
 
Re: "Best" wedge(monitor)

brian maddox said:
Since i'm weighing in on this subject i thought i'd add this. i absolutely HATE SRX712Ms! They are a great form factor. And i love the clever pole cup. But there is something about the horn in those that i cannot EQ out and i cannot stand to listen to. reminds me of that 'wax paper on a comb kazoo' we used to make when i was a kid. I know i'm in a very small minority here, so feel free to ignore me. I just thought i'd cast one dissenting vote just to make it more interesting... :)
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That used to be referred to as the "JBL Sound". I remember walking into one of my first big shows using Vertec and could hear it out in the tunnel, and told my wife, "it's a JBL system"...

Best regards,

John
 
Re: "Best" wedge(monitor)

Rider friendly is subjective. I do a lot of private events in smaller venues, sometimes the main act will be large enough that they have only the BIG names on their rider, but when you explain that it's a Bar Mitzvah and they're only doing 3 songs to track they usually get it. Attitude can go a really long way too, I go into those kinds of conversations with the vibe being that I would give them the world if I could and this is the best we can do. The tech may still be at your level when he's not on tour with the band, or you can be hopeful he's been in the industry long enough to understand what's happening(which is usually budget).

That being said, I've seen national acts with JBL SRX712m monitors on stage, not for their tours, but for private events or smaller festivals. They're loud and I don't mind them at all. EAW MW10s and 12s however(MW12 is switchable passive/active) are pretty incredible. Rap acts may not be down with the 10s(some extra sub in the sidefills could help you with that), but the 12s have not been turned down yet.
 
Not getting the lack of love for the 712 thats popped up. Obviously you can't run loads of kick and bass through them, but I've heard some 15' wedges that fall apart even faster than the 712 (not exactly high end ones mind you). We've never had headroom problems with them, you really need to biamp them per JBLs recommendations before you judge the audio quality.
 
Re: "Best" wedge(monitor)

Since I bought a pile of original Microwedges I haven't used my Yorkville TX2M and TX5M very often, but they always did the trick. They can be found well within your budget. Biamp 12x2 exit and 15x2 exit respectively.
 
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