What do you guys think of this live IEM RIG

Kevinjames

Kevinjames

Freshman
May 30, 2013
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Worcester, MA
www.reverbnation.com
My band sucks. We play shows that suck, with sound guys that have not much passion for what they do.

I can never hear my guitar, or singing when we play, which makes the suck even worse. So, here's my minimalist solution. What are the pitfalls, if any that you see with this type of rig. I'm the guitarist / vocalist. I can't stand dealing with equipment, and my bass player came up with this idea. I already owned the mixer, never thought of using it in a live situation for monitoring, but it seemed like a good idea, so this is what we came up with.

I'm still trying to figure out what stereo IEM is. Something to do with linking auxes. I have no idea what that means. Everyone seems to know what it is, but can't tell me how to do it. Is this some kind of black magic, that is only shared with inner circles? Right now aux 1 goes to the L of the sennhauser IEM transmitter and aux 2 goes to the R. I know this isn't true stereo.

So I'm wondering what you think of this setup and if my Mackie DL 1608 can even do this linking of the auxes for stereo IEM mixing, if I'm saying that correctly?

Thanks

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Re: What do you guys think of this live IEM RIG

I wouldn't bother with stereo inputs to the IEM. The Mackie doesn't make this easy and its just going to make it harder for you to adjust things on the fly while playing. Just come out of aux 1 to L input on the IEM and set the pack to mono. Use the rest of the auxes to persuade your band mates to get IEM too! They can mix themselves if they have iphones. What's the unit below the power conditioner? A mic splitter?
 
Re: What do you guys think of this live IEM RIG

Yes, 1 for vocals and I use 2 amps, a Mesa Mark V with a JDX reactor which has xlr out. Instead of using a mic in front of the Mesa cab, the JDX goes in the back of the amp. Sounds far superior to a mic in front of the amp. Then I have an acoustic amp, which is a Line 6 3LM pa speaker basically. So I have channels 1,2,3 and bass player with his DI has 4. We then split these and give them to the sound guy. My bass player has the same IEM as myself. I just have the rack space thing in there till he gets his lazy ass over to install it. The drummer? Well who cares about the drummer :)
 
Re: What do you guys think of this live IEM RIG

Kevinjames said:
Yes, 1 for vocals and I use 2 amps, a Mesa Mark V with a JDX reactor which has xlr out. Instead of using a mic in front of the Mesa cab, the JDX goes in the back of the amp. Sounds far superior to a mic in front of the amp. Then I have an acoustic amp, which is a Line 6 3LM pa speaker basically. So I have channels 1,2,3 and bass player with his DI has 4. We then split these and give them to the sound guy. My bass player has the same IEM as myself. I just have the rack space thing in there till he gets his lazy ass over to install it. The drummer? Well who cares about the drummer :)
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So why don't you build a passive 2 space 16 ch split patchbay, patch everything and use that mackie as your in-ear mixer for the whole band.

Buy a headphone amp, a trs to 1/8" female and get the drummer on hardwired ears (cheap).

Then the mackie will act as the FOH console too, when you don't have a sound guy....
 
Re: What do you guys think of this live IEM RIG

Shane Presley said:
So why don't you build a passive 2 space 16 ch split patchbay, patch everything and use that mackie as your in-ear mixer for the whole band.

Buy a headphone amp, a trs to 1/8" female and get the drummer on hardwired ears (cheap).

Then the mackie will act as the FOH console too, when you don't have a sound guy....
Click to expand...

Well, that's essentially what it is now. See the ART S8 in the rack? I mean it's down in my basement (rehearsal space) and we use it right now like that. Just like we would in a live situation if doing our own sound. Don't really need to be using my KW183's down there but we like noise. One is pointed at the drummer. I use my K12 when rehearsing as I can control the sound. Never had a problem with monitor when I do my own sound. But the places we play insist on using Behringer monitors. I've played at about 10 places with Behringer monitors and it's probably not the monitor itself but I can never hear myself. Hence why we converted the DL1608 into the rack with the ART S8. What you don't see in the back is the additional feeds for the FOH when used as a monitor mixing station.

I have a headphone amp as well as a Rock on tasty blender (worst sounding thing I've ever heard) for our drummer if he requires it. I don't think he really cares, as long as he can hear guitar and bass. I'm the one that flips out about monitors as when I can't hear my guitar or vocals, it makes for a crap performance. So, I know there's sound guys that have passion for what they do, but at the bottom feeder places that I play at the sound guys are washed up losers who don't care about anything. The last place we played had trash bags over the monitors and that's why I decided to build this rig.
 
Re: What do you guys think of this live IEM RIG

Well it sounds like you could add another ART s8, split everything.
Get the drummer on hard IEM line off a headphone amp
Get the bassist to purchase another sen receiver pack, using the same transmitter you can supply two in-ear mixes...
done and done.
 
Re: What do you guys think of this live IEM RIG

Kevinjames said:
Well, that's essentially what it is now. See the ART S8 in the rack? I mean it's down in my basement (rehearsal space) and we use it right now like that. Just like we would in a live situation if doing our own sound. Don't really need to be using my KW183's down there but we like noise. One is pointed at the drummer. I use my K12 when rehearsing as I can control the sound. Never had a problem with monitor when I do my own sound. But the places we play insist on using Behringer monitors. I've played at about 10 places with Behringer monitors and it's probably not the monitor itself but I can never hear myself. Hence why we converted the DL1608 into the rack with the ART S8. What you don't see in the back is the additional feeds for the FOH when used as a monitor mixing station.

I have a headphone amp as well as a Rock on tasty blender (worst sounding thing I've ever heard) for our drummer if he requires it. I don't think he really cares, as long as he can hear guitar and bass. I'm the one that flips out about monitors as when I can't hear my guitar or vocals, it makes for a crap performance. So, I know there's sound guys that have passion for what they do, but at the bottom feeder places that I play at the sound guys are washed up losers who don't care about anything. The last place we played had trash bags over the monitors and that's why I decided to build this rig.
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You're on the right track. Just keep refining this until the whole band is on iems and it's easy to deal with night after night.
 
Re: What do you guys think of this live IEM RIG

I'm just wondering why you think I need another ART S8? you mean if we decide to mic the drums? I'm using 3 of the inputs, 1 for the bass and we were thinking about 1 ambient mic? I don't know if that's enough. I'm not use to the IEMs as of yet. Seems somewhat disconnected from the situation in a weird way, so I've heard ambient mics would help. But I'm not a sound guy, nor am I an audiophile. I know you sound guys tend to go off the hook with this stuff, which is good. I appreciate the passion to actually get into what you do and the technology. But your talking to a dummy here. I'm just the singer and guitar player, LOL. I just want to hear what I'm doing primarily. I do suppose that we would probably run out of room should we decide to mic the drums and have them in the monitor mix. Or maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about, which is highly plausible. I got rid of my 24 channel Presonus for this mixer. I hated the presonus. Cumbersome non intuitive interface if you ask me. Some love it, I hated it. This Mackie, a monkey could use.
 
Re: What do you guys think of this live IEM RIG

I forgot we could add another receiver pack. The bass player has his own Senn IEM unit, same as mine, just not installed yet as I mentioned. Of course the drummer would have to use the same mix as the bass player but I think that would work out ok.
 
Re: What do you guys think of this live IEM RIG

Kevinjames said:
I forgot we could add another receiver pack. The bass player has his own Senn IEM unit, same as mine, just not installed yet as I mentioned. Of course the drummer would have to use the same mix as the bass player but I think that would work out ok.
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I assumed you would be micing the whole stage (which would require more than 8 inputs)

FYI -
The drummer does not have to share the same mix...

AUX 1 - your mix (mono send to your receiver)
AUX 2 - bassplayer mix (mono send to his receiver)
AUX 3 - drummer mix (mono - sent to headphone amp)

Getting used to the in-ears is just that, getting used to it... it's not disconnecting you, its actually removing the distractions so you can hear what you want to hear better. Don't get on in-ears and then re-introduce the ambiance BS. Enough of that should come in from your vocal microphones.
 
Re: What do you guys think of this live IEM RIG

Ok, good to know. When I was referring to sharing the same mix as the bass player, I meant if we were to add another receiver pack to the bass players Senn transmitter. We could certainly do headphone amp for the drummer. Have 3 of the damn things. Tried all sorts of configurations till I bent over and bought the Senn G300 or whatever it's called. + custom Westones was close to 2k. But probably worth it in the long run. I don't know what bands typically do with the IEM's that is if they mic the whole stage or whatever. Our drummer is loud. I could literally practice in my neighbors basement 100' away and still hear the damn drums @ my house. Dynamics is not one of his fortes.
 
Re: What do you guys think of this live IEM RIG

Kevinjames said:
Ok, good to know. When I was referring to sharing the same mix as the bass player, I meant if we were to add another receiver pack to the bass players Senn transmitter.
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Kevin, a sennheiser system can transmit two different mixes,from the same transmitter to two packs (one left one right)... there is very little bleeding between mixes.
if it were the bass players mix, he'd probably welcome it (and visa versa)
 
Re: What do you guys think of this live IEM RIG

Shane Presley said:
Kevin, a sennheiser system can transmit two different mixes,from the same transmitter to two packs (one left one right)... there is very little bleeding between mixes.
if it were the bass players mix, he'd probably welcome it (and visa versa)
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Makes sense, didn't think of that. The sales engineer @ Sweetwater told us any additional receiver pack would have to use the same mix. And your right, the drummer would probably want the same mix as the bass player anyhow. Thanks for the help and good ideas gentlemen.
 
Re: What do you guys think of this live IEM RIG

My solution for poor man's iem stereo is to run the main mix to the iem and then top up with mono mixes for each individual. Less auxes, less work with monitormixing. I used to run it all into a Behringer 4 way headphone amp, because it supported that exact setup, stereo into the main LR input and mono injected into each individual amp. Then out from the 4 headphone outputs to four stereo transmitters, quick and easy. Not perfect of course, but not that terrible either.

As for linking auxes on your Mackie, it can't be done.
 
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Re: What do you guys think of this live IEM RIG

Per Søvik said:
My solution for poor man's iem stereo is to run the main mix to the iem and then top up with mono mixes for each individual. Less auxes, less work with monitormixing. I used to run it all into a Behringer 4 way headphone amp, because it supported that exact setup, stereo into the main LR input and mono injected into each individual amp. Then out from the 4 headphone outputs to four stereo transmitters, quick and easy. Not perfect of course, but not that terrible either.

As for linking auxes on your Mackie, it can't be done.
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So is that what stereo IEM basically entails, linking auxes? Is that a software limitiation or hardware limitation. I wish I understood the difference a little better between mono and stereo mix. 50 people tell me stereo is night and day compared to mono, the other 50 say mono is fine.
 
Re: What do you guys think of this live IEM RIG

Kevinjames said:
So is that what stereo IEM basically entails, linking auxes? Is that a software limitiation or hardware limitation. I wish I understood the difference a little better between mono and stereo mix. 50 people tell me stereo is night and day compared to mono, the other 50 say mono is fine.
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Any board with 2 auxes in theory could be used to create a stereo IEM mix. If your board can link the auxes together, it makes it easier for adjustments. Otherwise, the first aux is adjusted to get the left ear mix, then the second aux is used to get the mix for the right ear. I've never worked with an artist that demanded a stereo mix. I'm not sure what they would want differently in each ear to begin with. Personally, I'd find a stereo mix more of a distraction than anything. How many times have you set stereo wedges for anyone? What would be the point?
 
Re: What do you guys think of this live IEM RIG

Brian jojade said:
Any board with 2 auxes in theory could be used to create a stereo IEM mix. If your board can link the auxes together, it makes it easier for adjustments. Otherwise, the first aux is adjusted to get the left ear mix, then the second aux is used to get the mix for the right ear. I've never worked with an artist that demanded a stereo mix. I'm not sure what they would want differently in each ear to begin with. Personally, I'd find a stereo mix more of a distraction than anything. How many times have you set stereo wedges for anyone? What would be the point?
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Good point. I don't understand the stereo thing or why it's needed. I put more vocal in the right ear and guitar on the left, and then a little guitar in the right. Is that what most people do?
 
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