2" exit "line array" horn lens?

Evan Kirkendall

Evan Kirkendall

Senior
Jan 10, 2011
903
4
18
Abingdon, MD
www.harfordsound.com
Slightly odd request... I'm looking for a 2" exit "line array" horn lens. Basically something that offers roughly a 90x10 degree pattern and good loading to 400-500hz. Does such a thing(stock) exist? I'm finding plenty of 1.4" exit lens, but nothing larger... Any one have any ideas?



Thanks!
Evan
 
Re: 2" exit "line array" horn lens?

Tim Weaver said:
Problem is, Soundbridge bought DDS. So if you want a custom horn, you gotta go through them.

It might be easier to build a diffraction slot, assuming you could live with the super-wide coverage that gives you....
Click to expand...

The other company that could do it is Community. Not sure if they've got schedule space for OEM work these days. Christine?
 
Re: 2" exit "line array" horn lens?

Tim Weaver said:
Problem is, Soundbridge bought DDS. So if you want a custom horn, you gotta go through them.

It might be easier to build a diffraction slot, assuming you could live with the super-wide coverage that gives you....
Click to expand...

After the DDS issue we brought all of our work back in house. You could call my office at McCauley Sound, but if your quantity is too small we may not be able to do it. There is significant tooling in either making a fiberglass or polyurethane horn lens.
 
Re: 2" exit "line array" horn lens?

Evan Kirkendall said:
Slightly odd request... I'm looking for a 2" exit "line array" horn lens. Basically something that offers roughly a 90x10 degree pattern and good loading to 400-500hz. Does such a thing(stock) exist? I'm finding plenty of 1.4" exit lens, but nothing larger... Any one have any ideas?



Thanks!
Evan
Click to expand...
One of the problems is that a 2" is typically not going to be able to "fill out" a 90° horn. A 1.4" is "pushing it".

Now if you don't mind the higher freq being a bit "beamy", it might work.

I guess the real question is "Why a 2" and not a 1.4 or 1.5"? In many cases the "important parts" (magnet-voice coil diaphragm etc) are the same. And the only difference is the exit diameter.
 
Re: 2" exit "line array" horn lens?

Ivan- the intended use of this 2" horn is for mid range. 500-1.8k or so. Above that, it's either going to be a pair of 1" or 1.4" drivers. Call me crazy, but its a fun little project I'm brewing up. I may just end up building my own horn at this point.




Evan
 
Re: 2" exit "line array" horn lens?

I was under the impression that in proper line-array cabinets there really isn't any "horn"-based vertical pattern control. If you take one element by itself it actually seems to have a very sloppy uncontrolled vertical output and it isn't until you put many together it then behaves properly.

Now this is only what I've observed, but it's not too hard to see, just pull the grill off a V-Dosc and you can see the upper and lower portions of the central "flare" area are just the flat outer panels of the box itself. Some don't even have top and bottom panels forming a flare (the Outline boxes for example).

The "magic" seems to happen in the patented assembly that couples the driver to the flare and I doubt there's going to be any of those sold a-la-carte! You could probably source Chinese clones, quite possibly of the L-Acoustics part as it's old enough that patent protections may have lifted by now (not that that has ever really stopped some China companies!)

Also after looking over most line-array products out there, the 400/500Hz-and-up range seems to be done with cone drivers.

(I do remember loading-in some huge fiberglass horns in my youth that were rated for somewhere in the 15 to 20º range but they were about 4' long and used the JBL 2" alnico phenolic-diaphragmed high-mid drivers of that era)
 
Re: 2" exit "line array" horn lens?

I am not a big fan of 2 inch compression drivers at 500hz but there is one that I have owned that is horn loaded and the crossover points are 400hz and 4500hz. I am not sure of the pattern but the sound is out of this world smooth. It might give you a good place to start. Check out the Klipsch Lascala. The drivers were not inexpensive but did not break the bank when I replaced mine 10-15 years ago. The horn is around 2 feet long with the driver attached as best as I remember.

There is a pair of the horns on eBay right now: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Klipschorn-...pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item338054453c
There are also some of the compression drivers for sale there. You most likely would have to modify the horn a bit to get the 10 degree vertical pattern but I am not sure. If you are going to build your own horns it is pretty easy to make a fiberglass mold from them. The Lascala is still produced to order only at the sum of $3500 each. I can vouch for how good they sound.
 
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Re: 2" exit "line array" horn lens?

Eric Cagle said:
I am not a big fan of 2 inch compression drivers at 500hz but there is one that I have owned that is horn loaded and the crossover points are 400hz and 4500hz. I am not sure of the pattern but the sound is out of this world smooth. It might give you a good place to start. Check out the Klipsch Lascala. The drivers were not inexpensive but did not break the bank when I replaced mine 10-15 years ago. The horn is around 2 feet long with the driver attached as best as I remember.
Click to expand...

The Community M200 is probably the midrange compression driver standard, 2" exit, recommended to operate over one decade from 400 to 4k.
 
Re: 2" exit "line array" horn lens?

Craig Hauber said:
I was under the impression that in proper line-array cabinets there really isn't any "horn"-based vertical pattern control. If you take one element by itself it actually seems to have a very sloppy uncontrolled vertical output and it isn't until you put many together it then behaves properly.
Click to expand...

The HF is very much "horn" based. If mids are on a horn, the horns usually can't be big enough to provide pattern control down to the crossover freq.

Now this is only what I've observed, but it's not too hard to see, just pull the grill off a V-Dosc and you can see the upper and lower portions of the central "flare" area are just the flat outer panels of the box itself. Some don't even have top and bottom panels forming a flare (the Outline boxes for example).

The "magic" seems to happen in the patented assembly that couples the driver to the flare and I doubt there's going to be any of those sold a-la-carte! You could probably source Chinese clones, quite possibly of the L-Acoustics part as it's old enough that patent protections may have lifted by now (not that that has ever really stopped some China companies!)

Also after looking over most line-array products out there, the 400/500Hz-and-up range seems to be done with cone drivers.
Click to expand...

Yes, and this is where the vertical pattern control is done by utilizing the columnar approach to speaker orientation (works for the LF, too). It's a viable method that has some sonic tradeoffs, though.

(I do remember loading-in some huge fiberglass horns in my youth that were rated for somewhere in the 15 to 20º range but they were about 4' long and used the JBL 2" alnico phenolic-diaphragmed high-mid drivers of that era)
Click to expand...

Community made some very long, narrow coverage horns. I'd wager some are still hanging in arenas and rodeo sheds.
 
Re: 2" exit "line array" horn lens?

Silas Pradetto said:
The Community M200 is probably the midrange compression driver standard, 2" exit, recommended to operate over one decade from 400 to 4k.
Click to expand...

I have mixed on many of them and even more of the JBL 2 inch compression drivers. They all get plenty loud but always sounded harsh to me as they go progressivly lower than 800hz. I have always preferred a "paper" driver in the vocal range but I will say that I came from the recording studio for many years before doing live sound. The one exception I have heard is the Klipsch driver and horn combination. Honestly the big community horns were always at rock concerts being ran so loud who could tell what they really sounded like. I hate to admit it but back then I was one of those who was running it too loud also.
 
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