Am I just whining or is this stupid (Rigging)

B

Ben Gingerich

Sophomore
Oct 19, 2012
188
0
16
Warner Robins Ga
So I recently left the Air Force and moved to Florida and took a job with a small install company, I have been working with them for about 2.5 months. The last 2 days I have been working with the owner and his son (first time working with either of them), and both days I have been very uncomfortable with the rigging that's been done at 2 different job sites and when i brought it up i wast told "I was whining and just do my tech stuff."

I in no way claim to be a rigger, however i did take a class at infocomm a few years back and have done my fair share of events and installs. Normally those projects are simple unistrut, aircraft cable and proper grade 8 hardware. So maybe i don't know what i'm talking about, but I am kind of worried about the safety of these installs.

Install one, we hung a single light bar with 2 led par can's and a 6 light led bar, we used 3/4in tapcons to anchor the bar to the concrete ceiling above a baptismal. I felt we should have drilled through and put a support above the ceiling at both anchor points.

Install two, is the one that really bothered me. We installed a 30ft 2500lbs concrete poll with 3 JBL AWC159 outdoor speakers on it, from what i was told the hole had to be at least 5ft deep and no one seemed to know if they needed to pour concrete in the base, we could only dig down 4ft 4in due to a rock base that was in ground, they placed the poll anyway with no concrete.

I am a little concerned should i be?
 
Re: Am I just whining or is this stupid (Rigging)

Ben Gingerich said:
So I recently left the Air Force and moved to Florida and took a job with a small install company, I have been working with them for about 2.5 months. The last 2 days I have been working with the owner and his son (first time working with either of them), and both days I have been very uncomfortable with the rigging that's been done at 2 different job sites and when i brought it up i wast told "I was whining and just do my tech stuff."

I in no way claim to be a rigger, however i did take a class at infocomm a few years back and have done my fair share of events and installs. Normally those projects are simple unistrut, aircraft cable and proper grade 8 hardware. So maybe i don't know what i'm talking about, but I am kind of worried about the safety of these installs.

Install one, we hung a single light bar with 2 led par can's and a 6 light led bar, we used 3/4in tapcons to anchor the bar to the concrete ceiling above a baptismal. I felt we should have drilled through and put a support above the ceiling at both anchor points.

Install two, is the one that really bothered me. We installed a 30ft 2500lbs concrete poll with 3 JBL AWC159 outdoor speakers on it, from what i was told the hole had to be at least 5ft deep and no one seemed to know if they needed to pour concrete in the base, we could only dig down 4ft 4in due to a rock base that was in ground, they placed the poll anyway with no concrete.

I am a little concerned should i be?
Click to expand...

When in doubt do what's right.... How hard is it to find another job..?

I quit my last day job because I was arguing with the guy whose name was on all the buildings (and signed my pay check). I sleep much better at night, ever since. :)

JR
 
Re: Am I just whining or is this stupid (Rigging)

Ben Gingerich said:
So I recently left the Air Force and moved to Florida and took a job with a small install company, I have been working with them for about 2.5 months. The last 2 days I have been working with the owner and his son (first time working with either of them), and both days I have been very uncomfortable with the rigging that's been done at 2 different job sites and when i brought it up i wast told "I was whining and just do my tech stuff."

I in no way claim to be a rigger, however i did take a class at infocomm a few years back and have done my fair share of events and installs. Normally those projects are simple unistrut, aircraft cable and proper grade 8 hardware. So maybe i don't know what i'm talking about, but I am kind of worried about the safety of these installs.

Install one, we hung a single light bar with 2 led par can's and a 6 light led bar, we used 3/4in tapcons to anchor the bar to the concrete ceiling above a baptismal. I felt we should have drilled through and put a support above the ceiling at both anchor points.

Install two, is the one that really bothered me. We installed a 30ft 2500lbs concrete poll with 3 JBL AWC159 outdoor speakers on it, from what i was told the hole had to be at least 5ft deep and no one seemed to know if they needed to pour concrete in the base, we could only dig down 4ft 4in due to a rock base that was in ground, they placed the poll anyway with no concrete.

I am a little concerned should i be?
Click to expand...

Were there stamped engineering drawings for the pole outdoors? Did the AHJ sign off on them? That's big enough that a building permit would genereally be required, and the wind loading for outdoor structures in Florida is a bit higher than for other parts of the country...

In the former case, Tapcon doesn't provide laod ratings for any of their products under 2" long. For the smallest 2" long Tapcon, the allowable tension load is 260lbs, so would be appropriate for the load in question. If what was installed is shorter than 2" long, Tapcon doesn't provide any load data.
 
Re: Am I just whining or is this stupid (Rigging)

Ben Gingerich said:
So I recently left the Air Force and moved to Florida and took a job with a small install company, I have been working with them for about 2.5 months. The last 2 days I have been working with the owner and his son (first time working with either of them), and both days I have been very uncomfortable with the rigging that's been done at 2 different job sites and when i brought it up i wast told "I was whining and just do my tech stuff."

I in no way claim to be a rigger, however i did take a class at infocomm a few years back and have done my fair share of events and installs. Normally those projects are simple unistrut, aircraft cable and proper grade 8 hardware. So maybe i don't know what i'm talking about, but I am kind of worried about the safety of these installs.

Install one, we hung a single light bar with 2 led par can's and a 6 light led bar, we used 3/4in tapcons to anchor the bar to the concrete ceiling above a baptismal. I felt we should have drilled through and put a support above the ceiling at both anchor points.

Install two, is the one that really bothered me. We installed a 30ft 2500lbs concrete poll with 3 JBL AWC159 outdoor speakers on it, from what i was told the hole had to be at least 5ft deep and no one seemed to know if they needed to pour concrete in the base, we could only dig down 4ft 4in due to a rock base that was in ground, they placed the poll anyway with no concrete.

I am a little concerned should i be?
Click to expand...

both of those situations concern me.

If someone working for me expressed concerns about the safety of something we were mounting I would address those concerns.
You don't need to be a rigger to ask if something is safe, and you also don't need to be a rigger to tell if he's done his homework or if he's full of BS
It should be very quick and easy for him to say "These anchors are rated for X lbs and we're hanging Y lbs worth of gear and hardware" and if he can't or hasn't already thought about it then he's probably just winging it.

As for the pole in the ground I've never seen anything that tall or heavy go into the ground without soil core samples (which would have detected the rock base that you ran into) AND an engineering report detailing what sort of foundation is required based on the ground conditions.
Not having that done (or not meeting the hole depth that an engineer recommended) is a big red flag.
There are places with undisturbed soil where you can drill a hole and drop the pole in and walk away, and there are places that have been backfilled where if you do the same thing it'll fall over before you walk away.

I'm not sure what advice to give you other than maybe this isn't a place where you're going to learn very much (or worse, you may learn too many bad practices)
OR if you can get him to listen maybe you can review these things and work towards better standards.

Jason
 
Re: Am I just whining or is this stupid (Rigging)

Almost 60 day follow up.
i put a call and email into the county inspector, he said he would check out the pole. (dont know if it ever happened). I got a call on monday of this week that the poll had fallen.
It happened over night and no one was hurt.
Anyone hiring?
 
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Re: Am I just whining or is this stupid (Rigging)

Seems to me you've got good instincts and/or common sense. Next time you run into a similar situation, I suspect you'll be more assertive and with good reason.
 
Re: Am I just whining or is this stupid (Rigging)

Ben Gingerich said:
Almost 60 day follow up.
i put a call and email into the county inspector, he said he would check out the poll. (dont know if it ever happened). I got a call on monday of this week that the poll had fallen.
It happened over night and no one was hurt.
Anyone hiring?
Click to expand...

Ben... It's pole... Unless you're talking about a vote or survey
 
Re: Am I just whining or is this stupid (Rigging)

Ben Gingerich said:
Thanks Shane. I guess i need to go sit though a few days of 1st grade wiith my 6 year old.
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Not to harp on this, but sometimes simple grammar or spelling mistakes (wrong word substitutions) can lead people to ignore or diminish your advice. I recall years ago teaching a senior executive at my old job how to use the spell checker in our mainframe mail program (before email). It could be hard to take his communication seriously with misspelled/misused words. Grammar errors can be diistracting too.

I see this often from younger people who don't (or didn't) read much... So you can be intelligent and know what the words mean, just not how to spell or write them. In the good old days you would have a secretary to correct your communication. Context based spell checkers are surely coming, but with the mashed up language used in texts I'm not sure how much demand there will be.

JR

PS: I see errors in the newspaper I read so even professionals drop the ball... Spell checkers only confirm it's a real word, not the right word.
 
Re: Am I just whining or is this stupid (Rigging)

You misspelled distracting....

John Roberts said:
Not to harp on this, but sometimes simple grammar or spelling mistakes (wrong word substitutions) can lead people to ignore or diminish your advice. I recall years ago teaching a senior executive at my old job how to use the spell checker in our mainframe mail program (before email). It could be hard to take his communication seriously with misspelled/misused words. Grammar errors can be diistracting too.

I see this often from younger people who don't (or didn't) read much... So you can be intelligent and know what the words mean, just not how to spell or write them. In the good old days you would have a secretary to correct your communication. Context based spell checkers are surely coming, but with the mashed up language used in texts I'm not sure how much demand there will be.

JR

PS: I see errors in the newspaper I read so even professionals drop the ball... Spell checkers only confirm it's a real word, not the right word.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Am I just whining or is this stupid (Rigging)

Steven Alves said:
You misspelled distracting....
Click to expand...

Yes thanks... that would be a typographical error not a misspelling, but surely amusing in context (I think I'll leave it so more can enjoy my abject humiliation. :-( )

The spell checker in my web browser flags it if i retype it with the double ii, so I have no excuse, mea culpa.

I am not a great spelr... I told my third grade teacher while discussing a failing grade on a spelling test, that I would have a secretary when I grow up to handle such details. Sadly I never did get one to spell for me and correct my grammar.

JR
 
Re: Am I just whining or is this stupid (Rigging)

John Roberts said:
Yes thanks... that would be a typographical error not a misspelling, but surely amusing in context (I think I'll leave it so more can enjoy my abject humiliation. :-( )

The spell checker in my web browser flags it if i retype it with the double ii, so I have no excuse, mea culpa.

I am not a great spelr... I told my third grade teacher while discussing a failing grade on a spelling test, that I would have a secretary when I grow up to handle such details. Sadly I never did get one to spell for me and correct my grammar.

JR
Click to expand...

and for the record, your point is correct and well made.

Grammatical and spelling mistakes are a surefire way to not be heard in a world where being heard is already difficult enough. Those who feel they are above such things simply aren't.
 
Re: Am I just whining or is this stupid (Rigging)

brian maddox said:
and for the record, your point is correct and well made.

Grammatical and spelling mistakes are a surefire way to not be heard in a world where being heard is already difficult enough. Those who feel they are above such things simply aren't.
Click to expand...

Kinda like the people who start every sentence with a new paragraph and use "unneeded" quotation marks.


Sent from my iPhone
 
Re: Am I just whining or is this stupid (Rigging)

David Sturzenbecher said:
Kinda like the people who start every sentence with a new paragraph and use "unneeded" quotation marks.


Sent from my iPhone
Click to expand...

I have a few stylistic affectations myself and posts on a web forum do not need to adhere to White and Strunk's elements of style. That said Homophones can be distracting (there got it right that time).

JR
 
Re: Am I just whining or is this stupid (Rigging)

John Roberts said:
Not to harp on this, but sometimes simple grammar or spelling mistakes (wrong word substitutions) can lead people to ignore or diminish your advice. I recall years ago teaching a senior executive at my old job how to use the spell checker in our mainframe mail program (before email). It could be hard to take his communication seriously with misspelled/misused words. Grammar errors can be diistracting too.

I see this often from younger people who don't (or didn't) read much... So you can be intelligent and know what the words mean, just not how to spell or write them. In the good old days you would have a secretary to correct your communication. Context based spell checkers are surely coming, but with the mashed up language used in texts I'm not sure how much demand there will be.

JR

PS: I see errors in the newspaper I read so even professionals drop the ball... Spell checkers only confirm it's a real word, not the right word.
Click to expand...

JR - Your observations are spot on in the business world, and enough in the legal realm to void some contracts.
I had been pretty tolerant when at work of grammatical and spelling errors, but I did work with a person I considered very mainstream and level headed that would pretty much discount an entire paper at the first error. I thought it was a bit extreme, but no amount of discussion would change his mind.

I do wonder just how much important communication is lost due to those rigid attitudes combined with the carelessness of document creation. I really would be interested to see how the current casual written communication (texting) will impact the business and legal worlds in the next 20 years or so.

As you mentioned, I see more and more errors in the news, magazines, and even the scrolling text on TV. Editors aren't what they used to be.

Back OT...
Everyone is entitled to a mistake, but not all professions can tolerate them, engineering and rigging being those without.

frank
 
Re: Am I just whining or is this stupid (Rigging)

John Roberts said:
I have a few stylistic affectations myself and posts on a web forum do not need to adhere to White and Strunk's elements of style. That said Homophones can be distracting (there got it right that time).

JR
Click to expand...

Except that you did, after all, capitalize it.
 
Re: Am I just whining or is this stupid (Rigging)

Max Warasila said:
Except that you did, after all, capitalize it.
Click to expand...
I meant that I typed "distracting" right not "homophones".

At some point this kind pedantry becomes more "distracting' than the errors.

Back in the 70's when I was running a kit business I had a lot of college student customers and I was surprised by how bad their writing skills were in simple written communication. This was before the rise of texting and smart phones, so a decline in education rigor.

FWIW I almost failed HS english and have been paid to write articles, a magazine column, and co-authored one book, so there is hope for similarly challenged. I recall while writing my technical articles that I'd have to edit the edits. to make them technically correct again. :)

These days I rely heavily on spell checkers and they aren't ready yet to correct my random capitalizations.. I really hate it when Word software capitalizes words for me that I don't want capitalized. :-(

Sorry about this veer... I generally contact posters off list to point out mistakes, but considered this one an object lesson with wider value. Just yesterday I privately advised a friend about how to spell "bus" properly.

Of course I am fair game in this thread, so have fun, you'll probably find lots of mistakes in my posts. I post too much.

JR
 
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