New Found Glory’s Chad Gilbert Collapses Onstage After Electric Shock - Music News, Reviews, Interviews and Culture - Music Feeds
I'm wondering if he was using vintage guitar amp...
I'm wondering if he was using vintage guitar amp...
Bad mic shock
- Thread starter Greg Cameron
- Start date
Re: Bad mic shock
Looks like he's using relatively modern gear: New Found Glory - Chad Gilbert Guitar Rig Gear and Equipment.
Looks like he's using relatively modern gear: New Found Glory - Chad Gilbert Guitar Rig Gear and Equipment.
Re: Bad mic shock
Yeah, most of the time that I've seen live voltage on mics is because of a piece of miswired gear that has had the ground plug removed or defeated. The If the ground pin is connected, you get system buzz, or worse, so the solution to 'fix' the problem is to simply lift ground.
That's why that's never an allowed solution for my shows, even if it's 'safe' to do so.
Yeah, most of the time that I've seen live voltage on mics is because of a piece of miswired gear that has had the ground plug removed or defeated. The If the ground pin is connected, you get system buzz, or worse, so the solution to 'fix' the problem is to simply lift ground.
That's why that's never an allowed solution for my shows, even if it's 'safe' to do so.
Re: Bad mic shock
If lifting the ground "fixes the problem", then you need to put the ground back-and find the REAL problem-not the "widow maker" bandaid.
As Bill Whitlock told me years ago "There is not a judge in the country who wants to hear how the buzz went away-when somebody died because of a shock".
If lifting the ground "fixes the problem", then you need to put the ground back-and find the REAL problem-not the "widow maker" bandaid.
Re: Bad mic shock
"In between songs I grabbed the mic to speak and when I did it felt like I couldn’t let go. I was being shocked and it froze me in place and when I was able to release my hands off of the mic I collapsed."
Guitar players (or their roadies) need to get in the habit of touching the end of the high E string to the mic without touching the strings of the guitar, looking for sparks and / or noise, if either are present they need to figure out why.
If no sparks, or noise, touch a string with one finger and the tip of your little finger to the mic, if no shock then try holding guitar strings and try touching your lips to the screen to check for voltage.
To tell the truth, I used to use a VOM to test for faults, but getting a good connection can be difficult on some microphones, but my lips can detect those stray currents quite well, and more reliably.
The guitar rig may not be at fault, miswired AC is unfortunately common, and that fact means unless you use wireless mics or a guitar body pack, always check the voltage between the strings and the microphone.
Chad said:
"In between songs I grabbed the mic to speak and when I did it felt like I couldn’t let go. I was being shocked and it froze me in place and when I was able to release my hands off of the mic I collapsed."
Guitar players (or their roadies) need to get in the habit of touching the end of the high E string to the mic without touching the strings of the guitar, looking for sparks and / or noise, if either are present they need to figure out why.
If no sparks, or noise, touch a string with one finger and the tip of your little finger to the mic, if no shock then try holding guitar strings and try touching your lips to the screen to check for voltage.
To tell the truth, I used to use a VOM to test for faults, but getting a good connection can be difficult on some microphones, but my lips can detect those stray currents quite well, and more reliably.
The guitar rig may not be at fault, miswired AC is unfortunately common, and that fact means unless you use wireless mics or a guitar body pack, always check the voltage between the strings and the microphone.
Re: Bad mic shock
+1, could be nothing wrong with guitar amps, but a mis-wired outlet/distribution can energize the chassis ground, putting mains voltage on the guitar ground. PEOPLE DIE FROM THIS.
There have been pretty good threads around several forums recently about importance of proper testing of outlets (more than just the 3 led thingys). VOM will work fine if you know what to measure for.
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I recall a long and detailed discussion a few years ago (on another forum) about the effectiveness of capacitor coupling the ground inside the guitar to protect the player from shock, should he plug into an energized guitar amp ground. After much back and forth, we determined that there was a useful range of capacitor values that would provide enough ground coupling to prevent hum pickup in an ungrounded guitar, while be small enough to keep AC current flow from mains voltage low enough to not stop the musician's heart. While I suspect it would hum like a banshee in that case, and might sting a little.
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If this facility has a rouge outlet or outlets they need to get their act together. In the court case about the death I knew of, the house with the bad outlets was condemned until the wiring was corrected. Not to mention liability if there is serious injury, or death.
JR
+1, could be nothing wrong with guitar amps, but a mis-wired outlet/distribution can energize the chassis ground, putting mains voltage on the guitar ground. PEOPLE DIE FROM THIS.
There have been pretty good threads around several forums recently about importance of proper testing of outlets (more than just the 3 led thingys). VOM will work fine if you know what to measure for.
======
I recall a long and detailed discussion a few years ago (on another forum) about the effectiveness of capacitor coupling the ground inside the guitar to protect the player from shock, should he plug into an energized guitar amp ground. After much back and forth, we determined that there was a useful range of capacitor values that would provide enough ground coupling to prevent hum pickup in an ungrounded guitar, while be small enough to keep AC current flow from mains voltage low enough to not stop the musician's heart. While I suspect it would hum like a banshee in that case, and might sting a little.
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If this facility has a rouge outlet or outlets they need to get their act together. In the court case about the death I knew of, the house with the bad outlets was condemned until the wiring was corrected. Not to mention liability if there is serious injury, or death.
JR
Re: Bad mic shock
There is a small thing that looks like a pen that contains a lamp/led.
If it comes close to live mains voltage it will light up.
It's a cheap insurance!
There is a small thing that looks like a pen that contains a lamp/led.
If it comes close to live mains voltage it will light up.
It's a cheap insurance!
Re: Bad mic shock
I have several of these. Sears has them or you can order them online. They really work. Fluke Volt Alert
I have several of these. Sears has them or you can order them online. They really work. Fluke Volt Alert
Attachments
Re: Bad mic shock
The NFG guys all use well maintained gear in good working condition. It's no surprise this happened at Chain Reaction... That place is a nightmare. Wouldn't surprise me if half the outlets on stage were miswired...
Evan
The NFG guys all use well maintained gear in good working condition. It's no surprise this happened at Chain Reaction... That place is a nightmare. Wouldn't surprise me if half the outlets on stage were miswired...
Evan
Re: Bad mic shock
That’s good advice … it maynot have been the microphone, the fault could have been the guitar/amp or the socket it was plugged into …with the mic providing the earth return.
...and .... the need to use RCDs, ELCBs, GFCIs or what ever they are called in the US.
Residual-current device - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
That’s good advice … it maynot have been the microphone, the fault could have been the guitar/amp or the socket it was plugged into …with the mic providing the earth return.
...and .... the need to use RCDs, ELCBs, GFCIs or what ever they are called in the US.
Residual-current device - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Re: Bad mic shock
Aha! Now we're getting down to the real nitty-gritty. In the bad old days we had a regular Monday night jam that we hosted and the outlets were so old and lose that the plugs would often fall out of them. There was always a shock ranging from tingle to a good zap on the lip and one night after being hit one too many times I lost it. Complaining to the managers for months never got anything done so at the end of the night I got a screw driver and removed all the outlets and left bare hot wires hanging out of the wall on all the outlets near the band area. Wish I could have seen there faces when they noticed the next day :twisted: and yes they finally hired an electrician and the problem went away.
Aha! Now we're getting down to the real nitty-gritty. In the bad old days we had a regular Monday night jam that we hosted and the outlets were so old and lose that the plugs would often fall out of them. There was always a shock ranging from tingle to a good zap on the lip and one night after being hit one too many times I lost it. Complaining to the managers for months never got anything done so at the end of the night I got a screw driver and removed all the outlets and left bare hot wires hanging out of the wall on all the outlets near the band area. Wish I could have seen there faces when they noticed the next day :twisted: and yes they finally hired an electrician and the problem went away.
Re: Bad mic shock
If you really did that, you set yourself up for a huge liability issue if someone was shocked/electrocuted from hot, uncovered wires hanging out of the boxes. I hope you're just joking. As egregious and dangerous as the club's complacency was, the wires weren't hanging out of the wall.
If you really did that, you set yourself up for a huge liability issue if someone was shocked/electrocuted from hot, uncovered wires hanging out of the boxes. I hope you're just joking. As egregious and dangerous as the club's complacency was, the wires weren't hanging out of the wall.
Re: Bad mic shock
Unfortunately, Gene's stunt does not insure that the nightclub will properly attend to wiring problems, the same idiot that miswired the system in the first place may be called back to do the repairs.
When wires are hanging out of the wall you know the wiring is bad, when bad wiring hides behind the outlet, you have no idea until you check it or get shocked.
Unfortunately, Gene's stunt does not insure that the nightclub will properly attend to wiring problems, the same idiot that miswired the system in the first place may be called back to do the repairs.
Re: Bad mic shock
If you had that much spare time on your hands, it would have been safer to wire the outlets correctly while you had them apart. BUT that would also open you up for liability.
While I agree with the sentiment in general don't do stuff like this... Safer to put gaffer tape over the outlets with skull and crossbones inked in with magic marker. Maybe squeeze some 5 min epoxy into the outlet holes, so they are unusable.
If people ignore the warning at least you tried. Sabotage in the interest of safety is still sabotage and exposed hot wires is not exactly safety first.
JR
If you had that much spare time on your hands, it would have been safer to wire the outlets correctly while you had them apart. BUT that would also open you up for liability.
While I agree with the sentiment in general don't do stuff like this... Safer to put gaffer tape over the outlets with skull and crossbones inked in with magic marker. Maybe squeeze some 5 min epoxy into the outlet holes, so they are unusable.
If people ignore the warning at least you tried. Sabotage in the interest of safety is still sabotage and exposed hot wires is not exactly safety first.
JR
Re: Bad mic shock
Liability shmiability - we're talking club owners that put horse heads in other peoples beds - this is the stuff they understand. :twisted:
Liability shmiability - we're talking club owners that put horse heads in other peoples beds - this is the stuff they understand. :twisted:
Re: Bad mic shock
Yeah I know I probably could have made a nice little note and put a bow on it too but some things are hard to do when you've just had the shit shocked out of your lip for the 10,000th time.
Yeah I know I probably could have made a nice little note and put a bow on it too but some things are hard to do when you've just had the shit shocked out of your lip for the 10,000th time.
Re: Bad mic shock
Yeah - Art gets it! It was an old dive that was taken over by the new owners who were so busy counting their huge piles of cash they didn't have time to fix every little thing. The place was standing room only 24/7 - 8 days a week for the first year. We held our spot for 9 years and that little stunt didn't faze 'em at all - you should have seen the shit the keyboard played pulled. Interestingly - he's still there holding court every week - it's been over 20 years. The club has expanded and multiplied all over the place.
I bet Art might even giggle over another club encounter that a friend told me about...
It seems that one our musical comrades was stiffed by a certain club one night and rather than fight about it he somehow stuffed an old fish into the air conditioner and the word he heard was they never could find where it was coming from so they had to live with the smell for a few weeks :roll: never mess with a guy who wears mullet boots around town. :lol:
Yeah - Art gets it! It was an old dive that was taken over by the new owners who were so busy counting their huge piles of cash they didn't have time to fix every little thing. The place was standing room only 24/7 - 8 days a week for the first year. We held our spot for 9 years and that little stunt didn't faze 'em at all - you should have seen the shit the keyboard played pulled. Interestingly - he's still there holding court every week - it's been over 20 years. The club has expanded and multiplied all over the place.
I bet Art might even giggle over another club encounter that a friend told me about...
It seems that one our musical comrades was stiffed by a certain club one night and rather than fight about it he somehow stuffed an old fish into the air conditioner and the word he heard was they never could find where it was coming from so they had to live with the smell for a few weeks :roll: never mess with a guy who wears mullet boots around town. :lol: