Re: Carvin Line Array In Stock
Isn't that all that matters? "Everybody" knows that line arrays are "the bomb".
Isn't that all that matters? "Everybody" knows that line arrays are "the bomb".
Carvin Line Array In Stock
- Thread starter Brandon Blakeney
- Start date
Re: Carvin Line Array In Stock
I would insist that the FOH guy be removed! What an idiot.....
I would insist that the FOH guy be removed! What an idiot.....
Re: Carvin Line Array In Stock
Did anyone else notice that the Carvin line array modules have two pole cups for support of either one or two boxes? I can someone saying they can provide a line array and showing up with one or two of the Carvin boxes per side on sticks. There is certainly nothing in the Carvin literature or two page 'manual' suggesting otherwise.
I don't know about over, but hitting bottom, yeah it seems so.
Did anyone else notice that the Carvin line array modules have two pole cups for support of either one or two boxes? I can someone saying they can provide a line array and showing up with one or two of the Carvin boxes per side on sticks. There is certainly nothing in the Carvin literature or two page 'manual' suggesting otherwise.
Re: Carvin Line Array In Stock
People are already doing this with boxes like the QSC KLA, Mackie HDA, and other similar boxes. FWIW, a couple of small line array boxes on a stick may not be ideal, but sometimes it is not terrible either.
I do agree about the potential for misuse of "I've got a line array" though.....
People are already doing this with boxes like the QSC KLA, Mackie HDA, and other similar boxes. FWIW, a couple of small line array boxes on a stick may not be ideal, but sometimes it is not terrible either.
I do agree about the potential for misuse of "I've got a line array" though.....
Re: Carvin Line Array In Stock
So then you have a $5k-$6k speaker on a stick that is OK?
So then you have a $5k-$6k speaker on a stick that is OK?
Re: Carvin Line Array In Stock
The big advantage of a vertical array for me is the modularity - my boxes are 50lbs each and I can lift and stack them myself. I don't know of any other SOS box that gives the output and sound quality I currently enjoy that weighs less than 75lbs - about the limit of what I can manage myself. I also generally prefer the 110X30 pattern of my system to the typical 90X45 box.
While I certainly don't condone the practice of overselling a constant curve system or a couple line modules as a "line array", there are a lot of gigs where these systems are completely appropriate (and maybe the promoters of a 100-person event who want a "line array" get what they deserve), as real line array function isn't required. I've seen line array boxes a lot more expensive than the Behringer or Carvin used as point sources, so this behavior isn't limited to the low end, either.
The big advantage of a vertical array for me is the modularity - my boxes are 50lbs each and I can lift and stack them myself. I don't know of any other SOS box that gives the output and sound quality I currently enjoy that weighs less than 75lbs - about the limit of what I can manage myself. I also generally prefer the 110X30 pattern of my system to the typical 90X45 box.
Re: Carvin Line Array In Stock
My point wasn't that vertical arrays don't have a place; rather, that some random, cheap, marginal speaker doesn't somehow become magical and correct for that and every application simply because there are a few thrown together in a vertically orientated array.
Whether a line array, a vertical array, trap boxes, or true point source is the best for a given application is a completely separate topic, best addressed in each context, and especially for each room when it comes to installation.
My point wasn't that vertical arrays don't have a place; rather, that some random, cheap, marginal speaker doesn't somehow become magical and correct for that and every application simply because there are a few thrown together in a vertically orientated array.
Whether a line array, a vertical array, trap boxes, or true point source is the best for a given application is a completely separate topic, best addressed in each context, and especially for each room when it comes to installation.
Re: Carvin Line Array In Stock
When enough customers tell any manufacturer that they want to buy a line array from them. they will sell them something called a line array. A true line array may not be what these customers really need, but they sure want to say that they bought a line array.
We have seen this kind of herd mentality group think with consumers before. Who forgot those headphones labelled "digital", because that was the merchantable buzzword du jour. Of course the headphones were analog, but the manufacturer sold the customers products they could actually use while calling them what they said they wanted.
Don't we all want happy customers......
The customer is always right, even when....
JR
When enough customers tell any manufacturer that they want to buy a line array from them. they will sell them something called a line array. A true line array may not be what these customers really need, but they sure want to say that they bought a line array.
We have seen this kind of herd mentality group think with consumers before. Who forgot those headphones labelled "digital", because that was the merchantable buzzword du jour. Of course the headphones were analog, but the manufacturer sold the customers products they could actually use while calling them what they said they wanted.
Don't we all want happy customers......
The customer is always right, even when.... JR
Re: Carvin Line Array In Stock
Yeah, the old Shure Vocalmaster could have been sold as a line array if that term had been hot back then. Hmm, maybe they should bring it back - make it in China, call it a line array, and sell a ton of them for $200.00 each!
Yeah, the old Shure Vocalmaster could have been sold as a line array if that term had been hot back then. Hmm, maybe they should bring it back - make it in China, call it a line array, and sell a ton of them for $200.00 each!
Re: Carvin Line Array In Stock
The "Digital" marketing phrase is so early 2000's. It's all about Hi-Def these days. Hi-Def house paint, Hi-Def sunglasses, Hi-Def makeup. Now if only someone would apply that kind of marketing to a line array...
Mackie - HDA
;-)
The "Digital" marketing phrase is so early 2000's. It's all about Hi-Def these days. Hi-Def house paint, Hi-Def sunglasses, Hi-Def makeup. Now if only someone would apply that kind of marketing to a line array...
Mackie - HDA
;-)
Re: Carvin Line Array In Stock
I saw an add this morning on tv for the I-mattress. WOW!
Talk about jumping on the bandwagon and piling on-----------.
I guess some people ARE that stupid.
Digitla ready-I always loved that one-as if old loudspeakers won't play "digital" music------------------
I won't even look at products that use "buzz words" to help sell it.
I saw an add this morning on tv for the I-mattress. WOW!
Talk about jumping on the bandwagon and piling on-----------.
I guess some people ARE that stupid.
Digitla ready-I always loved that one-as if old loudspeakers won't play "digital" music------------------
Re: Carvin Line Array In Stock
If you look at the actual column- there is a 10" driver on the top and bottom-and th e4 8" drivers in the middle.
So there is spacing between the lower freq devices to help produce a "donut" type coverage pattern.
I don't want ot go into it now-but I do appaud the engineers of the Shure vocal master SYSTEM. There were a lot of little things that went into the different pieces-that truly made it a SYSTEM for th eworking bands-mains and monitors. Somebody put a lot of thought into it-and it shows-look at the legacy.
Yes those old columns did work as intended. However they just didn't work up as high as current technology. Of course most of them (the classics anyway) did not even have any HF elements.
But if you read the spec information (which I have), you will see that they do talk about the narrowing of the vertical pattern to reduce reflections-increased "throw" and such.
If you look at the actual column- there is a 10" driver on the top and bottom-and th e4 8" drivers in the middle.
So there is spacing between the lower freq devices to help produce a "donut" type coverage pattern.
I don't want ot go into it now-but I do appaud the engineers of the Shure vocal master SYSTEM. There were a lot of little things that went into the different pieces-that truly made it a SYSTEM for th eworking bands-mains and monitors. Somebody put a lot of thought into it-and it shows-look at the legacy.
Yes those old columns did work as intended. However they just didn't work up as high as current technology. Of course most of them (the classics anyway) did not even have any HF elements.
Re: Carvin Line Array In Stock
And for the record, Shure wasn't the only company who make speaker columns. AFAIK Bozak and Peavey, and probably several more did too. They were probably targeted at vocal reinforcement only.
JR
PS: I am also a student of marketing/merchandising. People are not stupid as much as they they approach routine purchase decisions, especially in areas where they do not have practical experience, based on an intuition-like mental calculus. So positive and negative associations are not weighted as critically as we do when thinking about it in the foreground. Hopefully larger more important purchases are reviewed more critically, but when specific knowledge is lacking, we still make purchase decisions using whatever tools available. If we didn't make ignorant intuition based decisions, we couldn't make it through a day.
And for the record, Shure wasn't the only company who make speaker columns. AFAIK Bozak and Peavey, and probably several more did too. They were probably targeted at vocal reinforcement only.
JR
PS: I am also a student of marketing/merchandising. People are not stupid as much as they they approach routine purchase decisions, especially in areas where they do not have practical experience, based on an intuition-like mental calculus. So positive and negative associations are not weighted as critically as we do when thinking about it in the foreground. Hopefully larger more important purchases are reviewed more critically, but when specific knowledge is lacking, we still make purchase decisions using whatever tools available. If we didn't make ignorant intuition based decisions, we couldn't make it through a day.
Re: Carvin Line Array In Stock
column speakers...hmmm
There was the JBL Club series w/4 10"s and two bullet tweeters on top.
And the Wilder columns, popular in the midwest USA in the 60's.
And the British WEM series.
And Sunn.
To name a few.
column speakers...hmmm
There was the JBL Club series w/4 10"s and two bullet tweeters on top.
And the Wilder columns, popular in the midwest USA in the 60's.
And the British WEM series.
And Sunn.
To name a few.
Re: Carvin Line Array In Stock
Yip, here in SoCal we even got us a I-pho restaurant ! LOL
Yip, here in SoCal we even got us a I-pho restaurant ! LOL
Re: Carvin Line Array In Stock
To the layman, your logic is sound. But to the person who actually knows whats going on, it borders on unbelievable that you would attempt to pass something like that off as an engineer. Some vehicles cost more because they do not ever break down. They were specifically designed and manufactured with absolutely zero defects in manufacturing and assembly. This is achieved by completely removing the human element of uncertainty from the manufacturing process. A Lexus is ENTIRELY manufactured by machine for that specific reason. Every bolt, screw, nut and stitch is done by machine and there have never been any errors in manufacturing since the inception of the brand. Think back for a second, have you ever in your entire life seen a broken down new lexus? I bet you have not. I have only seen one that ran out of gas, and I live in the Bay Area in CA where there are a bazillion cars everywhere every day.
This same logic applies to electronic devices as well. It is more likely that a crappily manufactured chinese speaker of ANY type will blow up/break down/catch on fire/fall from the ceiling than the most expensive US made line array. Now why is that? Positing aside, the fact of the matter is that Chinese manufacturers are INCAPABLE of manufacturing precision products as good as the US/Germany/Japan. They simply can't do it. If one were to actually do research and plot the percentage of failed speakers based on their MTBF versus manufacturing origin, what conclusion do you think you would arrive at? I bet you a box of donuts that US made loudspeakers fail less than chinese made loudspeakers.
That is what justifies the price difference. A consumer is paying for the product to work better and have a better chance of not dying, not for the "brand name."
With regards to the discussion about cheap line arrays. I have said it before and I will say it again, A speaker sounds like its price tag. Nothing more, nothing less. If your speaker was 25,000 dollars and you compare it to a speaker that is 1,200 dollars, the 25,000 dollar speaker is "right" and whatever the other less expensive speaker sounds like is wrong. Subjectivity defines the price one can charge for their system, and I flaunt this logic at every opportunity. If I am comparing my sound system to someone elses and they happen to use more affordable equipment, I immediately label the offending system as "fake crap" while my brand name equipment is the "real stuff". It serves the industry to be as snobby as possible with regards to equipment-- the more accepting of low cost products an industry is, the less they can charge for their services and eventually everyone works for free.
To the layman, your logic is sound. But to the person who actually knows whats going on, it borders on unbelievable that you would attempt to pass something like that off as an engineer. Some vehicles cost more because they do not ever break down. They were specifically designed and manufactured with absolutely zero defects in manufacturing and assembly. This is achieved by completely removing the human element of uncertainty from the manufacturing process. A Lexus is ENTIRELY manufactured by machine for that specific reason. Every bolt, screw, nut and stitch is done by machine and there have never been any errors in manufacturing since the inception of the brand. Think back for a second, have you ever in your entire life seen a broken down new lexus? I bet you have not. I have only seen one that ran out of gas, and I live in the Bay Area in CA where there are a bazillion cars everywhere every day.
This same logic applies to electronic devices as well. It is more likely that a crappily manufactured chinese speaker of ANY type will blow up/break down/catch on fire/fall from the ceiling than the most expensive US made line array. Now why is that? Positing aside, the fact of the matter is that Chinese manufacturers are INCAPABLE of manufacturing precision products as good as the US/Germany/Japan. They simply can't do it. If one were to actually do research and plot the percentage of failed speakers based on their MTBF versus manufacturing origin, what conclusion do you think you would arrive at? I bet you a box of donuts that US made loudspeakers fail less than chinese made loudspeakers.
That is what justifies the price difference. A consumer is paying for the product to work better and have a better chance of not dying, not for the "brand name."
With regards to the discussion about cheap line arrays. I have said it before and I will say it again, A speaker sounds like its price tag. Nothing more, nothing less. If your speaker was 25,000 dollars and you compare it to a speaker that is 1,200 dollars, the 25,000 dollar speaker is "right" and whatever the other less expensive speaker sounds like is wrong. Subjectivity defines the price one can charge for their system, and I flaunt this logic at every opportunity. If I am comparing my sound system to someone elses and they happen to use more affordable equipment, I immediately label the offending system as "fake crap" while my brand name equipment is the "real stuff". It serves the industry to be as snobby as possible with regards to equipment-- the more accepting of low cost products an industry is, the less they can charge for their services and eventually everyone works for free.