Coaxial Wedge Collaboration

Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration

We haven't really discussed budget as of yet. We are aware however the user definitions may vary greatly based on ones own interpretation of Weekend Warrior or MI grade. That all indeed needs to be worked out. It's quite possible we may just grab at a number after some discussion or post up a pole. Your point is well noted and will be part of the discussion.

Where I'm at and in the current economic climate it's not unusual for some Weekend warriors to haul $20,000.00 plus for a mere $350.00 a show.In that regard a $7000.00 monitor rig isn't out of the ballpark.I know some bands hauling SRX boxes and others Mackies still others using Bose Sticks and yet others using Galaxy Hot spots!! Demographics also plays a role in what may be the norm in one area vs. another.

Personally I'd like to see a killer box at a reasonable price point but my definition of reasonable is as subjective as the next guys!

Oh the tangled webs we weave!

I'm confident we will get to a final design criteria that suits quite a few folks as long as we continue to gather input from different sources.

Keep it coming.

I'll have more driver charts in various boxes posted in a few days.
 
Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration

Ron Kreiger wrote on Tue said:
We haven't really discussed budget as of yet. We are aware however the user definitions may vary greatly based on ones own interpretation of Weekend Warrior or MI grade. That all indeed needs to be worked out. It's quite possible we may just grab at a number after some discussion or post up a pole. Your point is well noted and will be part of the discussion.

Where I'm at and in the current economic climate it's not unusual for some Weekend warriors to haul $20,000.00 plus for a mere $350.00 a show.In that regard a $7000.00 monitor rig isn't out of the ballpark.I know some bands hauling SRX boxes and others Mackies still others using Bose Sticks and yet others using Galaxy Hot spots!! Demographics also plays a role in what may be the norm in one area vs. another.

Personally I'd like to see a killer box at a reasonable price point but my definition of reasonable is as subjective as the next guys!

Oh the tangled webs we weave!

I'm confident we will get to a final design criteria that suits quite a few folks as long as we continue to gather input from different sources.

Keep it coming.

I'll have more driver charts in various boxes posted in a few days.
Click to expand...

I would definitely agree, because I feel that there is some choice of DIY wedges in the $200-500 range; but to have a goal to design a DIY wedge that ups the ante to a true entry-level pro wedge.

Take Care,
Phil
 
Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration

Phil Lewandowski wrote on Wed said:
I would definitely agree, because I feel that there is some choice of DIY wedges in the $200-500 range; but to have a goal to design a DIY wedge that ups the ante to a true entry-level pro wedge.

Take Care,
Phil
Click to expand...

I tend to side with Phil on this. Personally I think that if you want a low budget wedge, it's hard to compete with the likes of Yamaha clubs and similar decent MI grade cabs when you factor in all of the costs in DIY. Those cabs sell on the used market for next to nothing, so why build something in that realm?

Good wedges make life a lot easier in most circumstances. It's my preference to build something that is darn good for that reason, even though it might cost more.

Having said that, it's just my personal preference. Everyone has different needs. Maybe we could find a couple of driver choices that would work at different price points.

Ron's got some more models coming soon that I'll put up.
 
Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration

I'm sending Jeff more driver files today. I know I promised them earlier but I misplaced my flash drive and my wife just gave it back to me after spending the morning in the washer? Hopefully it still works. This batch will include some more price friendly options and also the P-audio solution mentioned earlier in the thread. If the flash drive doesn't work I'll need to take the charts from designer and package them up which might take a bit but I'll still get it done today.

Edit: Files were fine and Jeff has them.

A little note abot modeling different drivers:

In the earlier files I showed different configs changing box size and F3s Fbs etc. What I try and do is get the most LF extension with the most usable power ratings without exceeding X-max of the driver.It becomes a bit of a trade off here and there with some drivers as the box size needs to remain in Wedge size proportions and still fit a vent! I also add a 24db per octave HPF to every design as in my world I never run any rig, whether it be mains or monitors, without one.I'm not sure about everyone else but I pretty much live by the HPF and I never use limiters.

In the later files I'm only showing the best compromise I can come up with as far as extension/power handling/x-max/box size etc.Granted you can tweak settings for days on end getting different results but at some point you need to decide on a usable end result. I try and get the most usable results while preserving the drivers power handling.
 
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Driver costs

Ron Kreiger said:
We haven't really discussed budget as of yet. We are aware however the user definitions may vary greatly based on ones own interpretation of Weekend Warrior or MI grade. That all indeed needs to be worked out. It's quite possible we may just grab at a number after some discussion or post up a pole. Your point is well noted and will be part of the discussion.
Click to expand...

Just to resume the budget discussion, here is a VERY ROUGH estimate of costs for each of the drivers modeled so far, ordered by price High to Low:

RCF RCF CX12N351 - $500
B&C 12CXN76 - $450
CIARE NDCX12 - $400
BEYMA 12XC30 - $300
P.AUDIO BM12CXHA - $250
EMINENCE BETA12CX - $75 plus the cost of a screw-on HF driver TBD
 
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Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration

I think now that we've got 6 drivers in the mix, it's a good time to give Ron a break and start discussing what looks good to everyone, based on various priorities such as performance, cost, weight, etc.

Here is a shortcut to ALL of the modeled drivers in one file for those wanting a quick link. http://jeffbabcock.org/ALL_WEDGE_DRIVERS.zip

Let's get some feedback before going any further now.
 
Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration

I'm going to put together a spread sheet to compare driver designs directly. Hopefully this will make it easier for everyone to see the differences.

Edit 2/15/2011: Spreadsheet is done and sent to Jeff to be posted. Simply select the value in the of the column you want to sort and click the Sort ascending or Descending button and the entire sheet will sort that column and move the remainder of the rows with the sort.

Which one would you pick and why. dont forget to download the charts and also have a look at the frequency responses and other factors.
 
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Re: Spreadsheet

Bennett Prescott said:
Jeff,

You can upload .xls and .zip files to the forum, now.
Click to expand...


Thanks very much Bennett.
I'll move these files into the forum now.

Klaus, not sure what the issue might be, I tested all of the links from a different location and they seemed ok. At any rate having them stored in the forum is better anyway, so you can just grab them from my next post.
 
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Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration

Ron Kreiger said:
Which one would you pick and why. dont forget to download the charts and also have a look at the frequency responses and other factors.
Click to expand...


For me: B&C 12CXN76 as first choice, based on good all around performance, decent power handling and extension in a small box, what appears to be a very good HF driver capable of a sub 1K crossover point, and easy product availability and service availability with long term support.

The Ciare looks very interesting and would be worth trying, though the only places I have seen carry Ciare in North America are US Speaker and Assistance Audio (Jack Arnott). They don't even mention North America on their website, just Europe and Asia. Does anyone know of other Ciare sources in North America? With so few that might be a serious concern.... thoughts?

Based on some chatting with Ron it appears that the RCF may be overly expensive and it is well behind the B&C and Ciare in the LF game. I'd suggest we drop it from consideration unless someone feels otherwise.

Anyone, whether considering building or not, is welcome to share their thoughts on this project.
 
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