Dave Speaks on the LAB Transition

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Dave Stevens

Sophomore
Jan 12, 2011
136
0
16
Vegas Beotch
Over the last couple of weeks I've been asked by various people what I thought of the current state at PSW and the LAB. My reply to Bob below states it pretty well. I thought I'd post it here as I don't expect it to last too long there. What they've done to the community is disgusting. A regular cluster fuck.



EH does not embody the concept I started 16 years ago and what Ken and I tried to do with PSW. We made a shitload of mistakes but throughout the years there was one thing that was constant. The users came first. No matter if I owned it, or Ken Berger or Mark Herman. It was all about you guys. That doesn't appear to be the case anymore.





Quote: said:
Bob Leonard wrote on Thu said:
I personnaly am in favor of change and am more than appreciative of the efforts the PSW staff and moderators have put into this fine site over the years.
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The organization that owns this site now has been disrespectful, arrogant and dismissive during this change over. They've thrown the current mods under the bus and no one is management has the balls to come here and explain what was happening. Equating them to the previous owners and operators is an insult. The previous owners and operators were sound people. Much like the community. The current owner know very little of our industry. It was poorly communicated and is being poorly implemented. They don't understand the community and can not relate to what it means to be in this community. It's not the owners or even the mods that make a site like this happen. It's the participants and those the contribute the content.



I've never been more embarrassed or disgusted about anything on the LAB in the 16 years since I started it as I have with the way EH has handled this.
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Re: Dave Speaks on the LAB Transition

Sad to see what has happened over there. Maybe I didn't look hard enough, but did your other similar posting at the ''new'' forum go conspicuously absent?
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Re: Dave Speaks on the LAB Transition

Arthur Skudra wrote on Sun said:
Sad to see what has happened over there. Maybe I didn't look hard enough, but did your other similar posting at the ''new'' forum go conspicuously absent?
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They're still there -



Old Basement:



http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/613185/137/#msg_613185



New LAB:



http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,145.msg731.html#msg731



I truly love this morsel from Dave as it paints such a great visual: ''EH really stepped on their collective dicks in golf shoes.''



The next line if very much a foreshadow as far as fracturing the community.



Greg

 
Re: Dave Speaks on the LAB Transition

Greg Cameron wrote on Sun said:
Arthur Skudra wrote on Sun said:
Sad to see what has happened over there. Maybe I didn't look hard enough, but did your other similar posting at the ''new'' forum go conspicuously absent?
icon_confused.gif
Click to expand...



They're still there -



Old Basement:



http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/613185/137/#msg_613185



New LAB:



http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,145.msg731.html#msg731



I truly love this morsel from Dave as it paints such a great visual: ''EH really stepped on their collective dicks in golf shoes.''



The next line if very much a foreshadow as far as fracturing the community.



Greg
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I think it's pretty much a done deal. Neither of the Live PSW forums are seeing much traffic, posting-wise. I post a little on the old forums now, but my time there is basically over unless management does a complete 180° turn (which I don't see coming).



Have fun, good luck.



Tim Mc



For me the lack of tree view was the final straw. I can't begin to tell you how much I hate flat view after about 4 replies.
 
Re: Dave Speaks on the LAB Transition

Tim Padrick wrote on Sun said:
What I hate is that it does not tell me whether a thread has unread replies - a real PITA.
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If you go into your profile setting and go to the look and layout section, and choose the ''Curve'' layout, it will give you a big orange NEW icon next to each unread thread, click on it and it will take you to the first unread message.
 
Re: Dave Speaks on the LAB Transition

As usual +1 to what Dave said...

=====

I stopped trying to nudge them in the right direction after they deleted my post about the customer always being right... That one only stayed up a few minutes.



It still looks like a slow motion train wreck, from where I sit, and for no apparent reason.



Oh well,,, we'll see how it turns out.



JR









 
Re: Dave Speaks on the LAB Transition

John_Roberts wrote on Mon said:
It still looks like a slow motion train wreck, from where I sit, and for no apparent reason.



Oh well,,, we'll see how it turns out.
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I can't see a business model for it either. There are ways to make the current software work and even if they couldn't, there was no rationale I could see for not having an archive of the posts. And then arguing and dictating what was going to happen in a hamfisted way with no knowledge or respect to the community. That idea should never have made it out of the room and when it did they should have walked it back PDQ instead of digging in. Mistakes are made but when you make a whopper like that best to lick your wounds and think about it.



The earlier comparison someone made to Harmony Central was apt, I think. It seems to be morphing into an enthusiast site rather than a site for working pros. If I were able to fund it, I'd take a run at pro audio trade media using modern tools and methods. All so called ''rich media'', distributed exclusively online with equal parts commentary, education, product information and social networking. Basically what Ken and Mark and I tried to do at various times but for whatever reason, couldn't pull it off.



The king is dead. Long live the king...

 
Re: Dave Speaks on the LAB Transition

Yes the new forum software sucks, and I really don't like it even though I don't use tree view. But I'm sure they will eventually iron it out and make it more useable. All in all, the switch isn't worth getting worked up about.



But that they even considered for one second deep-sixing all the old content on the current FUD forum is just astounding! Years and years of incredible content just thrown in the trash? I know that I don't want to provide content for a site that would just arbitrarily toss all the hard work that I and many many others have put in over the years, just because they didn't want to spend the money to keep it?



I won't even get into the way that this all was announced as a 'done deal'. I feel bad for the mods who were forced to play messenger and announce all that crap.
 
Re: Dave Speaks on the LAB Transition

This is just another symptom of the stresses being dealt with by this community due to the software transition.



Bob has made many valuable contributions over the years and we all suffer from our own personal delusions of relative wisdom and importance.
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He is not alone on that island, and I hope he is welcome here, if he wants.



This transition has been an interesting ink blot test, revealing those unafraid to speak truth to power, and many who for good reasons decline to show their ass on what is still ''the'' industry forum.



I still hopes this turns out well... but i can't tell if that is the light from the end of the tunnel, or just an approaching train.







JR











 
Re: Dave Speaks on the LAB Transition

As usual, emotions get expressed. We all need the opportunity to let it go on occasion and the tolerance within this community is admirable. But God help you if you get your facts wrong on a sound issue...........



Life is hard. Then you die.
 
Re: Dave Speaks on the LAB Transition

Lots of unfortunate things have been said and done. I have avoided jumping in the fray for the most part. There's a fine line sometimes between saying what needs to be said and stirring the pot or pissing into the wind.



I hope we will arrive at the right place eventually - right now I end up checking three different forums, each with several sub forums to find content, sometimes finding the same question posted by the same user in multiple places. This fragmentation is disappointing.
 
Re: Dave Speaks on the LAB Transition

TJ Cornish wrote on Tue said:
I hope we will arrive at the right place eventually - right now I end up checking three different forums, each with several sub forums to find content, sometimes finding the same question posted by the same user in multiple places. This fragmentation is disappointing.
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Sure the fragmentation is challenging now, but keep in mind this site is only 2 weeks old. It's off to an impressive start, certainly more productive than the new PSW offering at least from my perspective.



I only end up checking the Marketplace on PSW now, and that's all I really intend to use there at this point. The absence of the regular posters has dried things up quite noticeably.



Sure, there are many registered users there, but how many post regularly?



I expect that getting all of those users to actually register on the new forums will be a very poor return rate for them. With reduced numbers of registered users and fewer posters, there will be less reason for the anonymous visitors to go as well.



Consider this: This is from their site as I write this message.



There are 8 members(s), 2 invisible members and 331 guest(s) visiting this board (PSW)



Compared with here:



There are 10 members, 4 invisible members and 25 guests visiting this board (HERE)



The ''guests'' (and those who don't bother to sign in because they don't intend to post) are a large part of the audience there.



So really, activity levels in terms of new content are similar, even though this site has a smaller userbase.





And forget about the users altogether..... the non-commercial, community focus of this place is enough to keep me here even if the userbase stopped growing right this second.





 
Re: Dave Speaks on the LAB Transition

TJ Cornish wrote on Tue said:
I hope we will arrive at the right place eventually - right now I end up checking three different forums, each with several sub forums to find content, sometimes finding the same question posted by the same user in multiple places. This fragmentation is disappointing.
Click to expand...



It looks like both sites support RSS links. A shitty answer to a shitty problem.
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Re: Dave Speaks on the LAB Transition

Jeff Babcock wrote on Tue said:
And forget about the users altogether..... the non-commercial, community focus of this place is enough to keep me here even if the userbase stopped growing right this second.
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I don't see commercial and a community focus as being mutually exclusive. It just needs be done tastefully in a measured fashion. It also gives the advertisers/sponsors a chance to participate deeper. The wrong way to do it is to try to monetize every available piece of screen real estate by ''noisey'' Flash based ads. Some more or less static, rotated banners with some product placement certain content or forums being ''presented by'', or some such. I see it not so much as a brand marketing but connecting users to other users commercially. For example prior to the LAB being absorbed into PSW we did about 30k a year in ads, mostly from smaller players that dealt directly with the community and well into six figures at our online store. With most of the online being Smaart, measurment mics, headphones, etc. It doesn't have to be Profiles and SD7s. In fact I'd say this sort of marketing doesn't sell those items. It can be about tape, sandbags
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connectors, etc. Commerce isn't a bad thing in a community like this, it just has to be managed.



Dave

 
Re: Dave Speaks on the LAB Transition

Exactly, Dave. I think we'll start doing tasteful, small ads at some point just because many manufacturers who are very involved with the community want them. Also, they're a great way to find out about new products, etc. The revenue from those ads can then support the site, and various get togethers and expos in the future.
 
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