DDX3216 or StudioLive 24.4.2

Re: DDX3216 or StudioLive 24.4.2

Michael Quick said:
Well not exactly at the same time but close to it.
ie: one band would play a riff, then another band plays one, kind of like they're "talking smack to eachother" haha. and then the individual bands play right after another.


and after watching some youtube videos, I think I'm going to get one. Anyone want to buy a DDX that was used for about 10 hours total? New TDIF Card included. :lol:
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Ahhhh I get it. Like headcuttin' but with full bands.

That's a pretty sweet idea!!

:)

I once did a gig, with 2 bands set up on the dancefloor. A drum kit was set up in each corner and they took turns doing one song each, trading off. Both bands use the same vocal mics and monitors. Amps were places in the middle, just kept it simple, and mic'd the kick and snares.

Real last minute idea that worked out pretty good!

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Re: DDX3216 or StudioLive 24.4.2

Tim McCulloch said:
It sounds like your client wants far more than they are paying for.
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Mike, I admire your desire to do sound for your school. Unfortunately, it's not your job to provide all that gear for free; it's your job to charge the market rate for the service, or you are doing the entire industry a disservice. If you do it for free and fail, and they come to me asking for the same service, they're going to expect it to be very cheap or free as well. They will be surprised to know that the service you were providing is worth much more.

Also, as others have pointed out, you are overestimating the amount of equipment required to do the event you describe. Press feeds are almost always mono and it's the same feed for everyone. Just because there are a ton of monitors doesn't mean each is it's own mix. We're talking about a battle of the bands here, with musicians that have played in front of an audience minimally or not at all: they're not professionals. One monitor mix per band, with just vocals in it, will be fine. You are going to have far more trouble getting Mr. Guitarist to turn his half-stack down to a reasonable level than getting the monitors right...

Since you're only 14 and are just getting into this, you should start running your business as a business right away. Look at the ROI of your gear. The DDX will do everything you need for the shows you describe; there is no reason to go dump a ton of money into a console that does almost nothing more.
 
Re: DDX3216 or StudioLive 24.4.2

Silas Pradetto said:
Also, as others have pointed out, you are overestimating the amount of equipment required to do the event you describe. Press feeds are almost always mono and it's the same feed for everyone.

Just because there are a ton of monitors doesn't mean each is it's own mix.


Look at the ROI of your gear. The DDX will do everything you need for the shows you describe; there is no reason to go dump a ton of money into a console that does almost nothing more.
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I used to do the press feed at the concerts and they started demanding that either the low end gets brought out, or the high end does, etc etc. and then the other stations would complain that its too high, then I would turn it down, and the argument continues. so I came to the conclusion I proceeded with. and there was no more complaints after that (from them at least). and I dont quite get what youre saying with "Just because there are a ton of monitors doesn't mean each is it's own mix."

And lastly the only reason I would switch to one is because It has 24 native channels, and 6 more aux outs, 4 subgroups, and even though it has nothing to do with quality, just a personal preference, I like the layout of the SL much better than the DDX. And with the DDX in order to get 8 more channels I would have to pay 300 for the ADT1616 card. 217 for the ADA8000, and all the cables etc. thats another about 600 just for 8 channels. where as the SL has it built in. equaling less things to have to carry with me.
(I don't have a trailer to put all of my sound stuff in, I can't even drive yet... haha. I'm limited to what the back of a Ford Explorer can hold. (my mothers car).

And to the first thing, I understand what you're saying, but most of the time, I get discriminated on based off the fact that I am 14. So yes, I could charge the standard rate. And even though I do have the equipment necessary and the knowledge of how to work it. Most adults just say to me "Well if I can pay you this much, why wouldn't I just go hire a real sound person?" and thats when I crack and just say "Okay, I'll do it for less." To avoid losing a potential customer. Which I know isn't doing any justice to me or the entire nation of sound techs. but, like you said. I am only 14. Its hard enough to find people to even hire me. Let alone pay the standard rate.
 
Re: DDX3216 or StudioLive 24.4.2

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Press gets what they get. They can adjust it with their mixer. Oh. they don't have a mixer? Tough shit.


On this level the band gets 4 mixes and should feel lucky for it. If they want more monitors, fine, but 4 mixes from FOH is about all we should be responsible for. When it gets bigger than that you need a monitor engineer on a separate desk that can wrangle the stage while you take care of those people that pay to see the show.
 
Re: DDX3216 or StudioLive 24.4.2

Tim Weaver said:
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Press gets what they get. They can adjust it with their mixer. Oh. they don't have a mixer? Tough shit.


On this level the band gets 4 mixes and should feel lucky for it. If they want more monitors, fine, but 4 mixes from FOH is about all we should be responsible for. When it gets bigger than that you need a monitor engineer on a separate desk that can wrangle the stage while you take care of those people that pay to see the show.
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Nice picture. :lol:

but with the DDX I only have 4 aux outs. how can I give 3 bands 4 mixes each, and press a mono out. on a 4 out limit?


I think I'm just going to do Dicks Solution mixed up a little. I'll put two speakers for all of the bands vocals. and then ill use Silas's solution (putting a monitor in front) and put bass and guitar in front. one monitor per band. since the vocal speakers will be near the drummers ill put drums through those. not like they cant already hear themselves. but whatever. and then lastly. I'll go off the control room outs for the press feed.
 
Re: DDX3216 or StudioLive 24.4.2

Michael....

One of the things you learn along the way is that no matter what gold-plated, candy-coated must-have requirements everyone comes up to you with, you will give them what they need with what you have and they'll learn that they can't pull the old wool over your eyes.

One press feed (mono) goes out to everyone, take it or leave it.

Vocals will get one monitor mix (I prefer side-wash as I said before) and others will get as much as I can conveniently give them.

They want more????? Then they can come up with the hard-earned or forget it.
 
Re: DDX3216 or StudioLive 24.4.2

Michael Quick said:
Nice picture. :lol:

but with the DDX I only have 4 aux outs. how can I give 3 bands 4 mixes each, and press a mono out. on a 4 out limit?


I think I'm just going to do Dicks Solution mixed up a little. I'll put two speakers for all of the bands vocals. and then ill use Silas's solution (putting a monitor in front) and put bass and guitar in front. one monitor per band. since the vocal speakers will be near the drummers ill put drums through those. not like they cant already hear themselves. but whatever. and then lastly. I'll go off the control room outs for the press feed.
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Dick said it very well.

In my world, if monitors are coming from FOH, then there are 4 mixes available. Period. The bands can split them up however they want to. If there are 2 bands simultaneously then they could have 2 mixes each.

I'm not familiar with the DDX. Are there group outputs? Or is it limited to 4 outputs and you assign what each one is? What do you do with all of the ADA8000 outputs? If there are groups in this desk, then assign everything to a pair and let that feed your press corp. If not, then mix house on the left and press on the right and run mono. It blows, bt thats what you have to do to get the show done sometimes.
 
Re: DDX3216 or StudioLive 24.4.2

I understand what you're all saying. You're all right. I shouldn't have to be buying new stuff for a show demanding more, that I'm barely getting payed on.

and the DDX was designed as a recording console. so theres no subgroup outs. theres 16 bus outs though on one layer. I'm not exactly sure how to access those, if i could use them as "subgroups/monitor mixes" And theres the Four aux outs that are built in. and thats also whats on the console that you can assign.

when i select a channel on the ddx, then theres the button panel to the left, theres four buttons on top. AUX 1, AUX 2, AUX 3, AUX 4, then I adjust how much goes to each aux by the "everything knob" (im not sure how else to describe it, it varies on what you have selected (any of the aux's, fx's, pan, etc)

As for the ADA8000 outputs. I'm not sure. They might get their feed from the 16 bus outs but again, I'm not too sure on that.

but like I said, built in, I only have 4 aux outs.
 
Re: DDX3216 or StudioLive 24.4.2

Mike, the DDX has 8 auxes, 4 of which can be FX processors or regular aux sends. There are 4 physical 'omni outs' which can be individually assignable to anything you want. An ADA8000 will add an additional 8 outputs, but those can only be assigned in pairs rather than individually. The 16 buses are essentially the same as subgroups, but they cannot be routed back to the L-R mix like normal subgroups. They can be used as outputs for zones or whatever though.
 
Re: DDX3216 or StudioLive 24.4.2

Silas,

Where do you send the 4 FX outs then? does it go through an ADA?

and where do the buses send their outputs?

and by they assign in pairs you mean they assign to two ADA ports as opposed to having 8 more outputs, or do you mean you can only assign paired channels to it? I'm confused at that part.
 
Re: DDX3216 or StudioLive 24.4.2

Everything can be assigned anywhere. Any ONE of the four physical outputs on the console can be assigned to any ONE available output (whether that is a bus, main LR, solo bus, etc). When you add an ADA, that give you 8 more inputs and outputs. ADA outputs are assignable in pairs, aka, channels 1 and 2 are together, 3 and 4 are together, etc. So, if you wanted to assign bus 1 to ADA channel 1, then bus 2 HAS to be assigned to ADA channel 2 also. It's a bit of a compromise.

Additionally, inputs can only be assigned in blocks of 8, which totally sucks.
 
Re: DDX3216 or StudioLive 24.4.2

The 16 buses are essentially the same as subgroups, but they cannot be routed back to the L-R mix like normal subgroups.
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Perfect. You assign every channel to subgroup 1 and 2 and then send that subgroup pair out to an ADA8000 output and give that to your Vidiots, I mean, TV crews. You then have all 4 omni outs available for your 4 monitor mixes.
 
Re: DDX3216 or StudioLive 24.4.2

Tim Weaver said:
Perfect. You assign every channel to subgroup 1 and 2 and then send that subgroup pair out to an ADA8000 output and give that to your Vidiots, I mean, TV crews. You then have all 4 omni outs available for your 4 monitor mixes.
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Vidiots. I love it. Haha.

and if worst comes to worst, if I need even more monitors than the built in omni ones, I'll just send them to the ADA.
 
Re: DDX3216 or StudioLive 24.4.2

"how can I give 3 bands 4 mixes each,"

You dont, for free, or even when it is paid for at times.

Simply set up one mix per band ( Aux1= band 1/stage 1, Aux=2band 2/stage s, etc ) with just vocals. Absolutely no need for anything else in the wedges. At the level tell them to adjust their stage volume so everyone can hear everyone else.

Mike
 
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