Do you interpret "required SPL" on riders as A or C weighting?

Re: Do you interpret "required SPL" on riders as A or C weighting?

It's a bullshit, arbitrary number so A or C don't stinkin' matter.

There, I feel better now.
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LOL. Yes, it is a largely meaningless number. Regardless of the weighting, it is a weighting. You could have a ton of ice-pick-in-your-ear frequency and nothing else and it would still read a high SPL.

Point taken.
 
Re: Do you interpret "required SPL" on riders as A or C weighting?

JP Huff said:
If in doubt wouldn't it just be safe to go with the C weighting because it's the greater of the 2? Rather have too much then too little
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But the same system will read louder on C than on A. So if you measure it on A, then you will need more of the same system to be just as loud as C.

Or another way-if two systems produce 110dB, the one with the A weighting will be louder-assuming the "normal" bass haystack.

Of course A weighting is not intended for use above about 80dBA-so the higher A numbers are not exactly "meaningless" but they don't mean what they are "supposed to".
 
I've never seen someone check or care as long as the system is loud and set up properly. I don't really do bars much, so usually there is plenty of Rig for the Gig at the events I'm on.

If there is enough system I cant imagine a BE pulling out his meter and saying, "well this is only 110db A weighted, that's just not enough". And it really wouldn't matter because at that volume you can't hear asinine complaints anyway.
 
Re: Do you interpret "required SPL" on riders as A or C weighting?

Just to be awkward, what about possible liability for providing a sound system capable of harming the audience?

If you can sue Starbucks for providing hot coffee, what prevents someone suing a venue, a provider or a band (or all of them more likely) for causing their tinnitus?
 
Re: Do you interpret "required SPL" on riders as A or C weighting?

Per Søvik said:
Just to be awkward, what about possible liability for providing a sound system capable of harming the audience?

If you can sue Starbucks for providing hot coffee, what prevents someone suing a venue, a provider or a band (or all of them more likely) for causing their tinnitus?
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I think that once the lawyers get ahold of this idea-we are in trouble.

Just wait till a lawyers daughter has some ear damage from going to a concert------------------

It would start cases like gun-is it the person who pulled the trigger-or the gun-or the bullet?
 
Re: Do you interpret "required SPL" on riders as A or C weighting?

Ivan Beaver said:
I think that once the lawyers get ahold of this idea-we are in trouble.

Just wait till a lawyers daughter has some ear damage from going to a concert------------------

It would start cases like gun-is it the person who pulled the trigger-or the gun-or the bullet?
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Check the back of your tickets at major concerts sometime. Something tells me there's a liability waiver for stuff like this somewhere. I know that they've been doing this on ski lift tickets for years too.
 
Re: Do you interpret "required SPL" on riders as A or C weighting?

Max Warasila said:
Check the back of your tickets at major concerts sometime. Something tells me there's a liability waiver for stuff like this somewhere. I know that they've been doing this on ski lift tickets for years too.
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Waivers are not necessarily doing you any good, unless it is signed at the time of entering into the "contract", and when there is a risk of injury from passively taking part, the value of the waiver is a lot less than when the participant is active and is the primary person to influence the risk of the activity.
One could argue that providing a system capable of more than 105dBA continous is irresponsible and negligent, and therefore refuse, but then every provider would have to do so, and that wouldn't suit the big ones with new, big and powerful rigs capable of a lot more.
 
Had a back to school youth rally that my band was asked to play at for a local church; we played the there last year and there were around 80 peeps, this year there ended up being around 150. Anyway my band told me they thought we should just use the pair of small Peavey speakers the church had and running the guitar/bass amps louder and not mic'd/DI'd to compensate(not knowing there would be so many people there)... I insisted on bringing our rig "just in case" and was very glad we did; ended up leaving the larger guitar and bass amp at home and running them through the PA. Sounded great with good coverage and plenty of headroom through our JBL MPro 415s(no subs) and we were able to use the church's Peaveys for monitors. It's always a good feeling when you have enough rig.


Sent from my iPad HD
 
Re: Do you interpret "required SPL" on riders as A or C weighting?

True about the complaints...but what about modern pop groups like One Direction or Justin Bieber or Selena Gomez? The fans scream so loud that you can't get above the screams, thus rendering our job almost pointless, right? Maybe I'm off on that, but it seems like if I were the BE for 1D, I'd make sure and check things like that right away, so maybe there is some hope of getting over the 15 year old screaming girls...
 
JP Huff said:
True about the complaints...but what about modern pop groups like One Direction or Justin Bieber or Selena Gomez? The fans scream so loud that you can't get above the screams, thus rendering our job almost pointless, right? Maybe I'm off on that, but it seems like if I were the BE for 1D, I'd make sure and check things like that right away, so maybe there is some hope of getting over the 15 year old screaming girls...
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The OP was a club guy I believe. Arena and stadium shows are a different animal entirely.
And yes, crowd noise can be crazy loud, but I don't think acts at that level are surprised by the PA when they walk into a room. In fact, they are almost certainly carrying their own or Clair or 8th Day or somebody has their rig all set up to be crazy loud.

Different ball game.
 
Re: Do you interpret "required SPL" on riders as A or C weighting?

Yeah I worked with him at First Ave last October (that's why he never responds, cuz he's totally my idol and I may have creeped him out a bit {sorry Evan, I'm normal I swear}) but the amount of screaming girls is a lot. All Time Low is my favorite band and every show I see of theres, crowd noise is ridiculous because of the energy they bring to the room.
 
Re: Do you interpret "required SPL" on riders as A or C weighting?

David Luscombe said:
In reference to Evan's rider, I think that screaming girls is one of his battles. I am pretty sure he has written about that before.
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I've a couple of shows with Evan-and yes-the girls can get quite loud.

HOWEVER-you don't always have to "get over" the screaming. If you actually did that-the levels would be insanely loud-and dangerous.

Normal audio guys would not stand in front of the sub-yet there were girls there all night long. If it was a good bit louder-there would be some serious damage impared upon them.

I think part of the screaming is simply part of the "show" and it is not constant. I bet if you asked any of the girls how it sounded (or any of the fans at the early Beatles shows in which you did not hear anything-I bet most would say the show was great and did not care.

We do have to look at practical situations.

Last night at an EDM show we did-I was asked a couple of times to turn down the subs. The first time was because ceiling tiles were falling down in several areas of the venue-and the second request was from an EDM producer/engineer who felt the sound was a bit bass heavy and felt it would be better with less bass.

All in all I turned the subs (2) down (FOR AN EDM EVENT???????????????) about 7dB. And nobody complained. It is not always about SPL.
 
Ivan Beaver said:
I've a couple of shows with Evan-and yes-the girls can get quite loud.

HOWEVER-you don't always have to "get over" the screaming. If you actually did that-the levels would be insanely loud-and dangerous.

Normal audio guys would not stand in front of the sub-yet there were girls there all night long. If it was a good bit louder-there would be some serious damage impared upon them.

I think part of the screaming is simply part of the "show" and it is not constant. I bet if you asked any of the girls how it sounded (or any of the fans at the early Beatles shows in which you did not hear anything-I bet most would say the show was great and did not care.

We do have to look at practical situations.

Last night at an EDM show we did-I was asked a couple of times to turn down the subs. The first time was because ceiling tiles were falling down in several areas of the venue-and the second request was from an EDM producer/engineer who felt the sound was a bit bass heavy and felt it would be better with less bass.

All in all I turned the subs (2) down (FOR AN EDM EVENT???????????????) about 7dB. And nobody complained. It is not always about SPL.
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I had a couple of young edm DJ's last weekend. I suspect they didn't have a lot of experience with a decent sub setup. I had a high pass on their channels from the stage all night. They were still going on about how great the low end was.

I wasn't really paying attention to that. I spent more time thinking what they had coming from the tops sounded a lot like the road crew that was cutting concrete next door earlier in the day.
 
Re: Do you interpret "required SPL" on riders as A or C weighting?

Jay Barracato said:
I spent more time thinking what they had coming from the tops sounded a lot like the road crew that was cutting concrete next door earlier in the day.
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I guess that is better a table saw and sheet metal-like I have heard some-----------------------

I did a gig years ago in which the act wanted me to mic his metal trashcan and run the mic through his own delay unit that he could adjust.

He would recite poetry and then smash the can with a sledgehammer-then change the delay-more poetry and more smashing. A different delay for each smash.

There is no accounting for "art".
 
That reminds me of a "show" one of the DJ's from the old 9:30 club did at DC Space back in the '80's. The band consisted of a guitar played flat lap steel style, a bass, and a guy hitting a metal washtub with a shovel.

After the first set we found that somehow the guy with the shovel had cut the guitar cable clean in half.

Nobody noticed.
 
Re: Do you interpret "required SPL" on riders as A or C weighting?

Helge Dr. Bentsen said:
Hurra Torpedo - total eclipse of the heart live @ Øya 2011 - YouTube
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...and the recording/live forums will be filled with

Q: "How could I best mic an electrolux 123-ks kitchen stove and can you recommend how to eq it"?
A: "Use a neuman u47 inside the oven. Best is to run the 110v stove on 243.7vdc using a furman variac with tube recifier and set the oven thermostat on 177 degC and the rest of the controls to 3, 1, 6, 4. Remember to use the hot air option because it will cause the mic to sound much better. Don't forget to use a windscreen due to the air flow!"
 
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