It's worth noting that I'm doing a more JTR 3TX like version for Chris Burns, and I wouldn't have enough volume if I had split the chambers.
Double 10 and Horn
- Thread starter Peter Morris
- Start date
Hello. Would 2x 18sound 10nw650 and Rcf nd950 work? Or would 18sound 10nmb420 be better ? It look ok in winisd an have a greater xmax ?
I think the 10mw650 is a better choice. As you noted it has a better Xmax and behaves very well up to the crossover frequency of 650Hz, FWIW I used the 8mw650's in my line-array. The RCF ND950 will work fine down to about 650 - 700Hz on that horn but the VHF will not be as nice as the BMS.
The trick with my double 10" (and the JTR) is crossing over low enough so the 10 inch drivers combine together nicely. They are spaced at 1/2 a wave length (650Hz); while it would be better if it was a 1/4 of a wave length, in practical terms things start to play nicely with each other if the spacing is less than a 1/2 a wave length. It also places the HF horn at more or less the same spacing, so it combines with the 10's without major off axis (vertical) issues.
That crossover frequency also mean that the horizontal patterns between the horn and 10 inch driver also match quite well at the crossover point.
The trick with my double 10" (and the JTR) is crossing over low enough so the 10 inch drivers combine together nicely. They are spaced at 1/2 a wave length (650Hz); while it would be better if it was a 1/4 of a wave length, in practical terms things start to play nicely with each other if the spacing is less than a 1/2 a wave length. It also places the HF horn at more or less the same spacing, so it combines with the 10's without major off axis (vertical) issues.
That crossover frequency also mean that the horizontal patterns between the horn and 10 inch driver also match quite well at the crossover point.
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Peter, you don't happen to have a smaller speaker than this in your design library?
I've been thinking about getting some small front fill/delay speakers for a while that ideally can double up as monitors on small gigs.
I've been thinking about getting some small front fill/delay speakers for a while that ideally can double up as monitors on small gigs.
Hi Helge,
No sorry, I don’t have any designs for a small front fill type of speaker.
Most of the boxes I have built have been to fill a space that is not very well represented in the market.
When I built the original double 10 about 20 years ago there was nothing on the market like it. Every other speaker on a stick was designed to operate full range. The double 10 was designed for maximum SPL above 100Hz and was smaller, louder and sounded better than an EV Delta Max for example.
With the introduction of Neo drivers its weight could be reduced substantially and it was possible to build a much more powerful speaker on a stick, the PM60/90 at about the same weight as the original double10.
BTW Helge … love what you have done with the 750’s
No sorry, I don’t have any designs for a small front fill type of speaker.
Most of the boxes I have built have been to fill a space that is not very well represented in the market.
When I built the original double 10 about 20 years ago there was nothing on the market like it. Every other speaker on a stick was designed to operate full range. The double 10 was designed for maximum SPL above 100Hz and was smaller, louder and sounded better than an EV Delta Max for example.
With the introduction of Neo drivers its weight could be reduced substantially and it was possible to build a much more powerful speaker on a stick, the PM60/90 at about the same weight as the original double10.
BTW Helge … love what you have done with the 750’s
Hi Peter
I had an idea of using 2 x10nw650 and bms1,4 + rcf horns. but have got a good
agreement on the Beyma cp850 nd? Do you know a good 2"horn that can go down to 6-700 hz and
not much bigger a 10 "? i know that is at the expense of vhf. But it is at a very good price. mvh Kim Anker Hansen
I had an idea of using 2 x10nw650 and bms1,4 + rcf horns. but have got a good
agreement on the Beyma cp850 nd? Do you know a good 2"horn that can go down to 6-700 hz and
not much bigger a 10 "? i know that is at the expense of vhf. But it is at a very good price. mvh Kim Anker Hansen
Sorry to continue being a little bit off topic, I just finished building a simple 12"+1" 2-way box that fills this exact niche. That said, I really built it because I couldn't sell any of the drivers I bought for the PM60, and needed to repurpose the 12NDL76s that I had just laying around. Admittedly, I haven't really done a great job with the processing and crossover, but it's a good start and I'd be willing to share details. If you want, I'll start another thread.
New designs are always interesting
I'm looking more in the direction of a dual 8" with a coaxial 8" + 8" LF driver.
Hi Kim,
No I don't know of any suitable 2" horns. The orginal double 10 used an EV HP94 and a 2" driver with a higher crossover frrequency, but the new design with the BMS4594 and HF950 is a big improvement. If you wanted to save some money I would look at RCF's ND950 1.4 with the HF950 horn and cross it at 650 to 750 Hz.
No I don't know of any suitable 2" horns. The orginal double 10 used an EV HP94 and a 2" driver with a higher crossover frrequency, but the new design with the BMS4594 and HF950 is a big improvement. If you wanted to save some money I would look at RCF's ND950 1.4 with the HF950 horn and cross it at 650 to 750 Hz.
Well it's not the same thing, but I am considering doing a MTM 10" + 1.4" design next. I could probably be convinced to do a MTM 8" + 1" just as easily, but it doesn't really satisfy your criteria for a monitor cabinet.New designs are always interesting
I'm looking more in the direction of a dual 8" with a coaxial 8" + 8" LF driver.
Hello, I am thrilled with the sound of the BMS 4594HE driver combined with the HF950 horn, used in the Peter Morris design PM 90, which I built and decided to build a small box with 2x10 "speakers, here's the construction.
http://www.mikesound.com/stavba/MB-21014KXH/mb21014kxh.htm
I'm waiting for 10" Beyma speakers 10MC700Nd, I'm looking forward to the soon to deliver and the speaker will start playing. I hope it will be good.
Jarda Mike
http://www.mikesound.com/stavba/MB-21014KXH/mb21014kxh.htm
I'm waiting for 10" Beyma speakers 10MC700Nd, I'm looking forward to the soon to deliver and the speaker will start playing. I hope it will be good.
Jarda Mike
Hi Jarolslva,
I have considered building something exactly like what you have done with this box including the new Beyma 10" drivers. Its very similar to the d&b Q10 - https://www.dbaudio.com/global/en/products/heritage/q10/
I have however never like the sound of the Q series and have always thought that d&b took the 10" driver up too high in frequency for that sort of loading on the 10". Using a BMS 4594 will allow a lower crossover and I suspect fix every thing I don't like about the sound of the Q series ... please let us know how you box performs.
I have considered building something exactly like what you have done with this box including the new Beyma 10" drivers. Its very similar to the d&b Q10 - https://www.dbaudio.com/global/en/products/heritage/q10/
I have however never like the sound of the Q series and have always thought that d&b took the 10" driver up too high in frequency for that sort of loading on the 10". Using a BMS 4594 will allow a lower crossover and I suspect fix every thing I don't like about the sound of the Q series ... please let us know how you box performs.
Hello Peter, the inspiration for me was box eaw KF394, according to the parameters of the HF system, maybe we used our favorite BMS driver. In the pdf manual there is also a ceiling in the box, so I tried it somehow similarly
https://www.google.cz/url?sa=t&sour...FjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw1aia12Imxl4cOmYHkRqNu6
The beyma 10MC700Nd speakers should be delivered on December 15, I'm looking forward to Jarda Mikyska.
https://www.google.cz/url?sa=t&sour...FjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw1aia12Imxl4cOmYHkRqNu6
The beyma 10MC700Nd speakers should be delivered on December 15, I'm looking forward to
Jarda Mikyska.
Hi! I'd like to start with: I hate you. I've been quietly planning to do this for about a year and a half and now you've gone and shown everyone! Re-doing the Q series with a lower x-over has been on my list for a long time, and I just don't have that kind of money as a college student.
On the other hand - great job!!
On the other hand - great job!!
Quick note - the handle is an integral part of the design on the 10" front chambers.
New designs are always interesting
I'm looking more in the direction of a dual 8" with a coaxial 8" + 8" LF driver.
I think you know someone that has such box that is very competitively priced.
Hi Jim,
I think the 10NDL64 would be a good choice. You will just need to adjust the box volume and tuning frequency a little to suit. It also depends on where you need to crossover to the sub. If you want a low-ish crossover eg. 70 -80Hz then your driver will need a substantial Xmax. If you can cross at 120Hz then you need less Xmax and can use a more efficient driver for more SPL.
The idea behind the double 10" is to combine the ouput of 2 x 10" drivers while crossing over low enought to avoid comb filtering between the two drivers - this is where the HF950 and BMS 4594 come into play allowing a 650Hz crossover.
Here are some other possibilities -
https://bcspeakers.com/en/products/lf-driver/10-0/8/10ndl64
https://bcspeakers.com/en/products/lf-driver/10-0/8/10mbx64-8
https://www.beyma.com/getpdf.php?pid=10MC700Nd
http://www.eighteensound.com/Products/Articles/Detail/catid/4050/eid/3393/10nw650
https://faitalpro.com/en/products/LF_Loudspeakers/product_details/index.php?id=151040110
I think the 10NDL64 would be a good choice. You will just need to adjust the box volume and tuning frequency a little to suit. It also depends on where you need to crossover to the sub. If you want a low-ish crossover eg. 70 -80Hz then your driver will need a substantial Xmax. If you can cross at 120Hz then you need less Xmax and can use a more efficient driver for more SPL.
The idea behind the double 10" is to combine the ouput of 2 x 10" drivers while crossing over low enought to avoid comb filtering between the two drivers - this is where the HF950 and BMS 4594 come into play allowing a 650Hz crossover.
Here are some other possibilities -
https://bcspeakers.com/en/products/lf-driver/10-0/8/10ndl64
https://bcspeakers.com/en/products/lf-driver/10-0/8/10mbx64-8
https://www.beyma.com/getpdf.php?pid=10MC700Nd
http://www.eighteensound.com/Products/Articles/Detail/catid/4050/eid/3393/10nw650
https://faitalpro.com/en/products/LF_Loudspeakers/product_details/index.php?id=151040110