Guitar Amp Modelers

Max Warasila

Max Warasila

Graduate
Feb 20, 2013
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Richmond, VA
I'm sure we've already gone over this before here and I just can't find the thread, but I am interested in hearing what you all think are solid modelers, and which (if you have the experience) are more rider acceptable. Of course, niche uses and features are highly valuable to know about, so I'd love if you came forward with those kinds of things.

I'm not interested in an argument of whether or not amp modelers themselves are worth using or if they are morally right, so to speak. If you want to debate this topic, do it politely.

I've already done some math and decided that if and when I ever make a purchase for an amp it will be a modeler and not the real thing. That said, I'm also not likely to make a purchase in the near future, but may need to rent one for a gig, so I'd like to know what to ask for.
 
Re: Guitar Amp Modelers

Semantics, but you are looking for a "modeling guitar amp", a guitar amp modeler would typically be a pedal brought along by the guitar player.

In my experience, most pros bring a guitar amp modeling pedal, I have never seen a modeling amp on a rider, though have not seen as many current riders as I used to.

I have heard a Line 6 modeling amp sound fairly "authentic", but don't recall the model.
 
Re: Guitar Amp Modelers

Riders?

Amp modeling has been around for a while I won't give you the full history but Line 6 is a pioneer in the technology, while someone like me might suggest that the ancient "rockman" was a precursor to amp modeling.

Sounds like back line or maybe something the players would have in their pedalboard.

JR
 
Re: Guitar Amp Modelers

If you want an modelling amp then the line6 dt50 (or the dt25) is a really good amp. With its latest v2 firmware it models all the same amps that the pod hd-series does. It has a tube power section and is pretty much wysiwyg.

if you want a pedal that models an amp then the boss gt-100 and the line6 pod hd is the big ones. The older model is quite good as well. In general words line6 is great on amp modelling and the boss excells in stomp box modelling The axe-fx comes with a really heafty price tag so I'd only consider this unit for really serious work. There is a rack mounted digitech gsp-1101 with a floor board that also sounds really good but it's discontinued.

The problem with all of these pedals is that you need to spend many hours to set it up to sound great. The older red kidney shaped line6 pods (first generation) is the better choice due to its simplicity and good sound. Since it's an amp modeler you need to have stompboxes.

As stompboxes are a huge part of ones sound I'd probably opt for stompboxes plus an amp modeller (or the dt50) and the next best thing would be the pod hd500x or the gt100.
 
Re: Guitar Amp Modelers

Vox Valvetronix is probably the least-phony sounding of the modelling amps.

Modelers can be okay as long as everyone on stage is on the same page. If everyone is on phony amps, you can get a workable mix. But if you've got one modeler and one real amp, the modeler will get lost in the mix. The dynamics just aren't the same as an analog amp, they sound like a recording of an amp.
 
Re: Guitar Amp Modelers

Just as an aside my experience with the Line6 guitar amps is that they get lost in the mix if there is another guitar with a real amp onstage. As far as modelers go the Fractal Axe II is the best I've heard.
 
Re: Guitar Amp Modelers

Ron Kimball said:
Just as an aside my experience with the Line6 guitar amps is that they get lost in the mix if there is another guitar with a real amp onstage.
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Have you tried/heard the dt25/50?

http://youtu.be/sZbR0PE5dTQ

The older modelling amps (flextone, vetta, hd147, etc...) were more a pod in some solid state box than anything else. They all have the challenge that you'd have to tweak away do get a good sound due to all options available.

With the dt25/50 you get a real tube poweramp designed by bogner that reconfigure itself using relays to change its topology. The preamp is dsp but it is highly optimized without any editing capabilities. You only get the standard tonestack controls on the front panel.
 
Re: Guitar Amp Modelers

Just as an aside, I actually looked back at Evan's back line blog post from 2011, it's out of my price range and use case for sure. Cool stuff, though.
 
Re: Guitar Amp Modelers

Andrew Broughton said:
If you're a guitar player, see if you respect any of these guys opinions...
http://www.fractalaudio.com/artists.php
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The axe-fx sounds great but you have to dig into the multitude of parameters to tweak to find 'your' sound and that is a tedious process.

While the axe-fx is great in the studio it lacks severely live. The floorboard doesn't control parameters but are rather switches tho change patches and turn on/off fx. Many guitarists want to have immideate access to their stomps settings to tweak them live. In this case the axe-fx will let you down...
 
Re: Guitar Amp Modelers

Max Warasila said:
Just as an aside, I actually looked back at Evan's back line blog post from 2011, it's out of my price range and use case for sure. Cool stuff, though.
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I was going to suggest checking out Evan's situation. Last time I saw them from the side of the stage they were all ears and emulators and not much to listen to from there, other than drums. Out front they sounded great. I'm a big old school ADA fan boy and still use an Ampulator occasionally, but that's some old and rare gear these days. I also have some Line 6 gear laying around. I played around with a Digidesign Eleven for a few months and quite liked it. With any of them they are hardly a plug and play solution. Some real time spent tweaking sounds under real conditions are an absolute requirement to get usable patches.
 
Re: Guitar Amp Modelers

Robert Lofgren said:
The axe-fx sounds great but you have to dig into the multitude of parameters to tweak to find 'your' sound and that is a tedious process.

While the axe-fx is great in the studio it lacks severely live. The floorboard doesn't control parameters but are rather switches tho change patches and turn on/off fx. Many guitarists want to have immideate access to their stomps settings to tweak them live. In this case the axe-fx will let you down...
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There are MANY ways to tweak on the fly if that's what you like to do. Many of the factory sounds are completely usable out of the box and building a configuration using the editor or front panel is very simple.
 
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Re: Guitar Amp Modelers

Kemper Watson said:
"While the axe-fx is great in the studio it lacks severely live".
Several guitarist's here will argue this point with you.
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If you pull it out of context like that, then I'm pretty sure that I'd get heavily flamed. The axe-fx does sound great.

In a studio you can 'stop the tape' and tweak your settings to perfection or even do re-amping if there is something you need to tweak afterwards.

But on a live show you can't just stop the band to start tweaking your settings. Sure, you have presets but they can only take you so far...

Playing guitar with stomps is just like mixing sound on a desk. You can't just use a preset to mix a band and leave it there because you need to adjust to the current playing due to different factors at that specific time...

While you can certainly add controllers to your axe-fx, pod, gt-xxx, etc... You don't have immidiate access to all of those knobs that you are used to having on your stomp boxes. On a simple stomp setup you may have five pedals with four knobs. That is twenty continous controllers!

And you can assign a couple of them to a couple of two or three continous controllers but you won't see many guitarists lay out twenty or so of them on the stage floor. This is a big limitation in my view and is shared by many of my peers...

The closest thing I've seen that combine modelling and pedals is the line6 m13/9/5-range of stomp modelling. They give you six knobs for each stomp plus stomp switches.

And this is why I think that most modellers like, axe-fx, line6, boss, etc lacks live. Not because of how it sounds, but the way how many of us want to interact with the tools at hand while performing.
 
Re: Guitar Amp Modelers

The guitarist in my cover band bought one and the first time he used it he couldn't stand it. He had brought his Matchless and used it instead. But he had only had it a couple of days and had not set it up. Once he got it like he wanted it and found the monitors to use with it the 95 pound amp stayed home. Now it's all he plays live..
 
Re: Guitar Amp Modelers

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Saw this on another forum..

Not necessarily my opinion (I embrace technology) just funny.

When you are dealing with creating original sounds it's all game...

JR
 
Re: Guitar Amp Modelers

John Roberts said:
Not necessarily my opinion (I embrace technology) just funny.

When you are dealing with creating original sounds it's all game...

JR
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I embrace technology too, but I'd tend to agree with the Batman :^).

If going the modeling route for a backline rental (which probably won't be well embraced) I'd also get (at least) double the power of the type of tube amp it would replace.

And of course, there is the issue of speakers, although you can model the sound of different types of 1 x 12", 1x15", 2x12", or 4x 12", the difference in dispersion and off axis sound won't be duplicated on stage.
 
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