I have the bug. It's eating all my free time. $2500 budget for DIY sub

Re: I have the bug. It's eating all my free time. $2500 budget for DIY sub

Bill Hornibrook said:
I put these together using that driver - basically just "building the box" recommended on the B&C site. I absolutely love them, but my main focus is EDM in rooms of around 250. But I don't think they (or any 21" box) is going to be what you want if you're planning on highpassing at 40hz. Going strongly down another 10hz or so is their main strength. If you're into EDM however there's really nothing else like them at this size. Each one is not much larger than a compact 18" sub. I'm really happy how this project turned out.
Click to expand...
I would wonder how much the ports "close off" at higher volume levels being that small for that size driver at 30Hz.

Sure at low levels-but at higher levels???????
 
Re: I have the bug. It's eating all my free time. $2500 budget for DIY sub

Guys, of the various B&C 18" and 21" drivers, which one do you recommend for a single driver TH design, with -0 down to ~30Hz?

Keeping my goals in mind....

  • is not flabby or boomy
  • is extremely efficient = most spl for the money
In regard to price/performance ratio, I'm looking to make the most balanced decisions.

Thanks for all the pointers so far!!! I'm looking more into TH now rather than BR!
 
Re: I have the bug. It's eating all my free time. $2500 budget for DIY sub

I had a chunk of time tonight to do more reading and searching. I found this comparing LF drivers thread to be a good read. (thanks btw, John H, for introducing me to Google.) ~cough~

Obviously other people who are smarter and more experienced than me in these things have "come before me." But i wasn't expecting there to be this much open information on the web. By that I mean, complete design sharing of stuff they could be charging for. For example
B&C 21SW152-4 Othorn tapped horn.

Tomorrow I will also go through all the info i can find on Art's B&C 18SW115 Keystone tapped horn!!! This is really great guys. Thanks!

Soon I'll be looking at amps since ya'll poopoo'ed nu6000dsp
 
Re: I have the bug. It's eating all my free time. $2500 budget for DIY sub

Ivan Beaver said:
I would wonder how much the ports "close off" at higher volume levels being that small for that size driver at 30Hz.

Sure at low levels-but at higher levels???????
Click to expand...

They do better than you might think. I'm running them with a pair of SRX-715s at contemporary levels (loud!) and they more than keep up.

You guys at Danley could probably come up with a better box design for this driver, but at what size? I crossed my fingers and built these B&C cabs precisely because of their size and weight (31"x26"x23", 125 pounds). Any bigger or heavier and I wouldn't have built them at all. All sub designs are compromises - as you guys are constantly reminding us. This one I'll gladly take.
 
Re: I have the bug. It's eating all my free time. $2500 budget for DIY sub

Bill Hornibrook said:
They do better than you might think. I'm running them with a pair of SRX-715s at contemporary levels (loud!) and they more than keep up.

You guys at Danley could probably come up with a better box design for this driver, but at what size? I crossed my fingers and built these B&C cabs precisely because of their size and weight (31"x26"x23", 125 pounds). Any bigger or heavier and I wouldn't have built them at all. All sub designs are compromises - as you guys are constantly reminding us. This one I'll gladly take.
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All I was trying to point out was something that many people forget or simply ignore-as the power/excursion goes up-it takes a larger port to maintain the same freq response as at lower levels.

Of course a larger port also means that it HAS to be deeper (for the same response). This of course takes away from the internal cubic area of the cabinet-which means the cabinet has to be larger to have the larger port.

sometimes this size "gets in the way"-either in transport or what a manufacturer feels they can sell. If it is to large they will loose sales to cabinets that "claim" to have the same performance but are smaller in size.

Of course the performance IS NOT the same at high levels-but since when do people care about that???????????????

So yours is a compromise for your situation and that is fine. But port area is a place that MANY manufacturers skimp and it only shows up at higher SPL levels-not in the music store-------------
 
Re: I have the bug. It's eating all my free time. $2500 budget for DIY sub

Dain Schneck said:
But i wasn't expecting there to be this much open information on the web. By that I mean, complete design sharing of stuff they could be charging for. For example
B&C 21SW152-4 Othorn tapped horn.

Tomorrow I will also go through all the info i can find on Art's B&C 18SW115 Keystone tapped horn!!! This is really great guys. Thanks!

Click to expand...
Dain,

You will find the Othorn is larger and goes lower (27 Hz Fb/F3 compared to 37Hz Fb/F3) than the Keystone.
If you designed for the same Fb, it would go louder, too.

Art
 
Re: I have the bug. It's eating all my free time. $2500 budget for DIY sub

Dain Schneck said:
But i wasn't expecting there to be this much open information on the web. By that I mean, complete design sharing of stuff they could be charging for. For example
B&C 21SW152-4 Othorn tapped horn.

Tomorrow I will also go through all the info i can find on Art's B&C 18SW115 Keystone tapped horn!!! This is really great guys. Thanks!

Click to expand...
Dain,

You will find the Othorn is larger and goes lower (27 Hz Fb/F3 compared to 37Hz Fb/F3) than the Keystone.
If you designed for the same Fb, it would go louder, too.

Art
 
Re: I have the bug. It's eating all my free time. $2500 budget for DIY sub

drew gandy said:
This may seem like a swerve but...
This question is for those who do EDM. Would 200ms of latency through your system be an unforgivable issue?
Click to expand...

Delay from FIR filter or extreme HPF @ 20Hz or both?

If it doesn't affect what the DJ hears, I don't think it would matter much so long is was consistent throughout the system's coverage area. EDM isn't a staple of our work so I could be overlooking stuff...
 
Re: I have the bug. It's eating all my free time. $2500 budget for DIY sub

Forgive me, this will probably be worded quite novice-ly. What are the pro and cons of the 3 drivers listed below for use in the Othorn TH? I've read the info on data-base. Also, more specifically which would be louder being driven by a QSC PLX3602? Lets say 2000W for 8ohm drivers, and 3000W for the 4ohm 21sw152. I'm trying to figure out which driver would be louder with an amp that does NOT require a 20A mains supply, and if there are any other big benefits of one over the other.

Current prices i found online:
21SW15218SW115TC Sounds Pro 5100

[TD="align: right"]$700[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]$450[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]$400[/TD]
 
Re: I have the bug. It's eating all my free time. $2500 budget for DIY sub

Dain Schneck said:
Forgive me, this will probably be worded quite novice-ly. What are the pro and cons of the 3 drivers listed below for use in the Othorn TH? I've read the info on data-base. Also, more specifically which would be louder being driven by a QSC PLX3602? Lets say 2000W for 8ohm drivers, and 3000W for the 4ohm 21sw152. I'm trying to figure out which driver would be louder with an amp that does NOT require a 20A mains supply, and if there are any other big benefits of one over the other.

Current prices i found online:
21SW15218SW115TC Sounds Pro 5100

[TD="align: right"]$700[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]$450[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]$400[/TD]
Click to expand...

More than likely the most efficient driver, which would be the 21. Plus, it's larger, and has just a (really, almost negligible) advantage in excursion.

Best regards,

John
 
Re: I have the bug. It's eating all my free time. $2500 budget for DIY sub

I overlooked that the TC sounds pro 5100 is rated at 4 ohms.

I'm going to see if i can find how to calculate theoretical SPL based on the driver specs and a given wattage driven, in order to pick out the driver that would be louder without infinite amounts of power available to push them to their max.

However, pending some eye opening revelation, i'll probably be going with the 5100, based on the the "othorn-5100"
 
Re: I have the bug. It's eating all my free time. $2500 budget for DIY sub

Dain Schneck said:
I'm going to see if i can find how to calculate theoretical SPL based on the driver specs and a given wattage driven, in order to pick out the driver that would be louder without infinite amounts of power available to push them to their max.
Click to expand...

Dain,

You're going to find that calculating specifications in this way will not have any connection to reality. It is difficult to tell without Klippel data how a woofer will behave at extremes, which is what subwoofers are all about. There is very little correlation between listed driver sensitivity and sensitivity in the sub band, which is heavily influenced by the enclosure.

I suggest you try multiple woofers in a listening test, in otherwise identical circumstances. I don't know much about the TC Sounds woofer, but paper comparisons aren't what sells 21SW152s.
 
Re: I have the bug. It's eating all my free time. $2500 budget for DIY sub

well i'm beginning to see that the almost double price for the b&c 21 is the least of my worries.....there appears to be no amp that i can afford that properly powers these things.

*EDIT. I was wrong about the b&c 21 being more than the tc sound pro 5100. the TCs are a little pricier.
 
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Re: I have the bug. It's eating all my free time. $2500 budget for DIY sub

Dain Schneck said:
well i'm beginning to see that the almost double price for the b&c 21 is the least of my worries.....there appears to be no amp that i can afford that properly powers these things.
Click to expand...

We do make a 4.5" voice coil version ;) That said, while our SW series subwoofers all have outstanding power ratings they are also very efficient when used as intended. There is no need to buy a 6,000+ watt amplifier unless you're using an enclosure that controls excursion extremely well and doesn't try and reach 30Hz at full output. Most users will reach Xvar before they reach the thermal limits of the motor due to normal crest factor in audio.
 
Re: I have the bug. It's eating all my free time. $2500 budget for DIY sub

Regarding powering the Othorn, what would be the real world power and features benefits of the PLX3602 vs xti 4002? (ignoring dsp benifits of xti2)
 
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