After reading the thread on what it takes to get into Canada,I'm thinking if we had Canada's immigration laws on our southern border,we wouldn't
be having the problems we do.
be having the problems we do.
Immigration laws
- Thread starter Randy Gartner
- Start date
Re: Immigration laws
Oooh Politics! I'll bite.
1) What exactly do you mean by "having the problems we do"?
2) I'm guessing our policies are stricter than Canada's. Any Canadians want to weigh in on this?
(Guessing based on anecdotes from people who visit the USofA. Mostly those here for trade shows, but also tourists. Some of them Canadians.)
Oooh Politics! I'll bite.
1) What exactly do you mean by "having the problems we do"?
2) I'm guessing our policies are stricter than Canada's. Any Canadians want to weigh in on this?
(Guessing based on anecdotes from people who visit the USofA. Mostly those here for trade shows, but also tourists. Some of them Canadians.)
Re: Immigration laws
We're bigger and have 1/10th the population. We don't have an immigration problem that I'm aware of, except maybe that too many immigrants are in the biggest, most crowded cities rather than spreading out and helping grow smaller cities.
We're bigger and have 1/10th the population. We don't have an immigration problem that I'm aware of, except maybe that too many immigrants are in the biggest, most crowded cities rather than spreading out and helping grow smaller cities.
Re: Immigration laws
Andrew, based on your experiences, which way is it easier to travel/work, post 9/11?
Canadian citizen to USA, or USA citizen to Canada?
Andrew, based on your experiences, which way is it easier to travel/work, post 9/11?
Canadian citizen to USA, or USA citizen to Canada?
Re: Immigration laws
It's tough to say, as every situation is different. It's very easy for me to work in the USA since I do it all the time, have no record, have Nexus/Global Entry and so on. The more "history" you have of crossing the border without incident I think works in your favour. I've only been hassled years ago when my employer didn't have my visa in order.
Americans say to me that they get the 3rd degree coming into Canada, but I wonder if that would lessen if they crossed the border dozens of times a year, had Nexus/Gobal Entry, etc., like I do?
It's tough to say, as every situation is different. It's very easy for me to work in the USA since I do it all the time, have no record, have Nexus/Global Entry and so on. The more "history" you have of crossing the border without incident I think works in your favour. I've only been hassled years ago when my employer didn't have my visa in order.
Americans say to me that they get the 3rd degree coming into Canada, but I wonder if that would lessen if they crossed the border dozens of times a year, had Nexus/Gobal Entry, etc., like I do?
Re: Immigration laws
At the risk of stating the obvious the difference is not as much in the laws as written as (non) enforcement of those laws and popular expectations. We have historically passed immigration reform laws and then failed to fully implement and enforce those laws.
The current influx of immigrant children is a combination of how our current laws are written regarding illegal children immigrants (from countries other than Mexico) and the expectation held by these children's parents that they will be allowed to stay in the US and perhaps ultimately become US citizens. Mexican children get turned around at the border and returned to Mexico, but these children from other countries receive shelter and administrative processing that takes weeks for even a hearing.
This influx of children at the border is probably a combination of unintended messaging from the administration about how the current population of illegal aliens will he handled. Once before we gave amnesty to the illegals here and promised to seal the border. We never did seal the border so now we have a new crop of illegal adults hoping for the same deal. The only thing that slowed the flow of illegals the last several years was our lousy job market, but this influx of children from a small handful of SA countries is a different angle. Drug traffickers have branched out into moving humans too. They get a dual benefit of a new revenue stream and border agents that are so overloaded with caring for these children to properly police the border.
Mexico os complicit in this human trafficking as they look the other way at both of their borders, no doubt the bribes are a revenue stream for Mexican border enforcement.
In the short term we need to adjust our law so we can return these children to their home countries immediately without the long administrative process and hearing that they rarely even show up at, like we do now for Mexican children. Send a few tens of thousands of these kids back to their home country and their parents will stop paying the coyotes to bring them here. President Obama actually asked congress for this change, in between throwing insults at that same congress so I don't expect much progress. There is a long political game playing out about illegal immigrants becoming a future voting block. The recent children's border crisis is probably an unintended consequence of sloppy political messaging and lax enforcement of current laws.
I realize this sounds cold and unsympathetic but we are a nation of laws and need to maintain an orderly immigration process. Anybody who thinks porous borders are not a problem are wrong IMO. I suspect we have a lot more than innocent children coming across.
JR
At the risk of stating the obvious the difference is not as much in the laws as written as (non) enforcement of those laws and popular expectations. We have historically passed immigration reform laws and then failed to fully implement and enforce those laws.
The current influx of immigrant children is a combination of how our current laws are written regarding illegal children immigrants (from countries other than Mexico) and the expectation held by these children's parents that they will be allowed to stay in the US and perhaps ultimately become US citizens. Mexican children get turned around at the border and returned to Mexico, but these children from other countries receive shelter and administrative processing that takes weeks for even a hearing.
This influx of children at the border is probably a combination of unintended messaging from the administration about how the current population of illegal aliens will he handled. Once before we gave amnesty to the illegals here and promised to seal the border. We never did seal the border so now we have a new crop of illegal adults hoping for the same deal. The only thing that slowed the flow of illegals the last several years was our lousy job market, but this influx of children from a small handful of SA countries is a different angle. Drug traffickers have branched out into moving humans too. They get a dual benefit of a new revenue stream and border agents that are so overloaded with caring for these children to properly police the border.
Mexico os complicit in this human trafficking as they look the other way at both of their borders, no doubt the bribes are a revenue stream for Mexican border enforcement.
In the short term we need to adjust our law so we can return these children to their home countries immediately without the long administrative process and hearing that they rarely even show up at, like we do now for Mexican children. Send a few tens of thousands of these kids back to their home country and their parents will stop paying the coyotes to bring them here. President Obama actually asked congress for this change, in between throwing insults at that same congress so I don't expect much progress. There is a long political game playing out about illegal immigrants becoming a future voting block. The recent children's border crisis is probably an unintended consequence of sloppy political messaging and lax enforcement of current laws.
I realize this sounds cold and unsympathetic but we are a nation of laws and need to maintain an orderly immigration process. Anybody who thinks porous borders are not a problem are wrong IMO. I suspect we have a lot more than innocent children coming across.
JR
Re: Immigration laws
That's because no one wants to immigrate to a place that stays below freezing for 10 months out of the year.
Re: Immigration laws
I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would voluntarily live in Oklahoma or Kansas....
As to Randy... stopping border porosity is not in the interests of those who actually OWN the USA. Not the shills that appear on ballots (because both sides answer to the same masters), but those individuals and corporeal/human entities, world-wide, that have concentrated wealth and power to the point where their voices are heard above the vox populi. As George Carlin said, "it's a big club, and you ain't in it."
I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would voluntarily live in Oklahoma or Kansas....
As to Randy... stopping border porosity is not in the interests of those who actually OWN the USA. Not the shills that appear on ballots (because both sides answer to the same masters), but those individuals and corporeal/human entities, world-wide, that have concentrated wealth and power to the point where their voices are heard above the vox populi. As George Carlin said, "it's a big club, and you ain't in it."
Re: Immigration laws
That's a bit darker than even I would argue. While both political sides are trying to position themselves to benefit from demographic changes, a wide open border and promise of amnesty would accelerate that change. Business generally profits from cheap labor but business in the US is increasingly dependent on skilled labor which generally does not sneak across the border.
Regarding who would want to live in Canada, lots of people. They have a huge community of Chinese immigrants and are gracious about accepting immigrants from everywhere. I wouldn't mind living in Canada during the summer (Vancouver is pretty).
JR
or MS.... (but MS is cheap.... I did spend some time in KS, too hot in the summer and too cold in the winter. :-( )
That's a bit darker than even I would argue. While both political sides are trying to position themselves to benefit from demographic changes, a wide open border and promise of amnesty would accelerate that change. Business generally profits from cheap labor but business in the US is increasingly dependent on skilled labor which generally does not sneak across the border.
Regarding who would want to live in Canada, lots of people. They have a huge community of Chinese immigrants and are gracious about accepting immigrants from everywhere. I wouldn't mind living in Canada during the summer (Vancouver is pretty).
JR
Re: Immigration laws
As an Englishman legally living and working in the US, I would say that the US probably has the strictest immigration laws in the world.
I can legally live and work in the EU and it would of been a lot easier for me to move to Australia, New Zealand or Canada.
As an Englishman legally living and working in the US, I would say that the US probably has the strictest immigration laws in the world.
I can legally live and work in the EU and it would of been a lot easier for me to move to Australia, New Zealand or Canada.
Re: Immigration laws
Well...in my case, my people were forced to move to Oklahoma. We used to live in the Georgia and Tennessee area. But the U.S. Government had other plans (and bigger and better guns, and more of them).
Re: Immigration laws
Funny, but a good portion of your country is further north than me.
Sent from my iPhone
Funny, but a good portion of your country is further north than me.
Sent from my iPhone
Re: Immigration laws
Having lived and worked in both the USA and Canada, I see the advantages and disadvantages of both countries. Moving back to Canada in 2000 was the best choice I made for my family. I don't know about you guys, but over the past decade it saddens me to see the direction the USA has taken, things seem more polarized, more paranoia of the bogeyman out to get your country, and the economy taking a huge hit in the gut. Perhaps my view is a bit jaded up here in Canada? I'm happy to visit the USA (and I do so very often), but am happier to come home to Canada. There! I said it!
Having lived and worked in both the USA and Canada, I see the advantages and disadvantages of both countries. Moving back to Canada in 2000 was the best choice I made for my family. I don't know about you guys, but over the past decade it saddens me to see the direction the USA has taken, things seem more polarized, more paranoia of the bogeyman out to get your country, and the economy taking a huge hit in the gut. Perhaps my view is a bit jaded up here in Canada? I'm happy to visit the USA (and I do so very often), but am happier to come home to Canada. There! I said it!
Re: Immigration laws
Given the recent election campaign here... are you sure you're talking about the USA and not Ontario?
Given the recent election campaign here... are you sure you're talking about the USA and not Ontario?
Re: Immigration laws
Nonsense!
Sweden and Norway are probably the most attractive European nations to immigrate to from the Middle East or Africa due to social securities and the outside perception of fair treatment and reasonable opportunities.
The way things work here, the first Euro nation where you are recorded to have arrived is where you get to try your luck for recidency. You only get one shot. Due to this, immigrants travellings from the south often take incredible risks, sadly, all to often with a deadly outcome, to make sure they remain undetected through all of Europe on their way to the North.
Most immigrants try to not end up in the southernmost Euro nations like Italy, Spain and Greece.
Nonsense!
Sweden and Norway are probably the most attractive European nations to immigrate to from the Middle East or Africa due to social securities and the outside perception of fair treatment and reasonable opportunities.
The way things work here, the first Euro nation where you are recorded to have arrived is where you get to try your luck for recidency. You only get one shot. Due to this, immigrants travellings from the south often take incredible risks, sadly, all to often with a deadly outcome, to make sure they remain undetected through all of Europe on their way to the North.
Most immigrants try to not end up in the southernmost Euro nations like Italy, Spain and Greece.
Re: Immigration laws
What we really need to work on isn't borders.
We need to work on making the world a better place so that immigration no longer is a necessity for having a decent life.
What we really need to work on isn't borders.
We need to work on making the world a better place so that immigration no longer is a necessity for having a decent life.
Re: Immigration laws
I believe you're comparing apples and Oranges. Remaining "Commonwealth Laws" ensure you have the right to settle in other "Commonweath Nations". Not certain about Canada, but absolutely certain about NZ and Oz!
I believe you're comparing apples and Oranges. Remaining "Commonwealth Laws" ensure you have the right to settle in other "Commonweath Nations". Not certain about Canada, but absolutely certain about NZ and Oz!
Re: Immigration laws
That is a rather expansive solution, and impossible to accomplish in the near term. Of course it is an admirable long term goal. The recipe to allow people to improve their circumstance in most places is rule of law and property rights so they can keep the fruits of their labor. Then they need self determination so they can control their future. From a quick glance at the world news there is much work to be done to get vast areas of the world to meet those basic requrements.
Unfortunately we need to play defense for now to avoid the anarchy that open borders and unrestricted immigration is causing. It is not as simple as building fences and walls, the government needs to be honest and effectively communicate to this new wave of immigrants that they will not get a free pass.
I just listened to a government spokesman on a sunday talk show and the weasel would not even state plainly that they will be deported, he just said they were speeding up the hearings. So the government is still playing politics with these children and not sending their parents a clear message, to not come here illegally. If the parents did not have an expectation that they would be allowed to stay they would not put their children at so much risk.
Arghhh I hate politicians, they speak with forked tongues.. :-(
JR
That is a rather expansive solution, and impossible to accomplish in the near term. Of course it is an admirable long term goal. The recipe to allow people to improve their circumstance in most places is rule of law and property rights so they can keep the fruits of their labor. Then they need self determination so they can control their future. From a quick glance at the world news there is much work to be done to get vast areas of the world to meet those basic requrements.
Unfortunately we need to play defense for now to avoid the anarchy that open borders and unrestricted immigration is causing. It is not as simple as building fences and walls, the government needs to be honest and effectively communicate to this new wave of immigrants that they will not get a free pass.
I just listened to a government spokesman on a sunday talk show and the weasel would not even state plainly that they will be deported, he just said they were speeding up the hearings. So the government is still playing politics with these children and not sending their parents a clear message, to not come here illegally. If the parents did not have an expectation that they would be allowed to stay they would not put their children at so much risk.
Arghhh I hate politicians, they speak with forked tongues.. :-(
JR
Re: Immigration laws
I disagree. But I have a rather different outlook on the spiritual destiny of both America and the world in general. But it doesn't really matter, because we are headed in that direction anyway, and there's not a single thing that any politician or government entity in the world can do to slow down that process, much less stop it.
Re: Immigration laws
You know, it's the same here. They'll let people sit cooped up in "waiting homes" for years and years before even administering deportation orders, and then they postpone that, too. Meanwhile, the asylum-seekers in question have to put their life on hold without the means to start rebuilding a life in either their country of origin nor here.
It's a chicken-shit approach and it seems to me like the politicians are all passing the hot potato until some poor newbie arrives that just has to make the unpopular decision.
You know, it's the same here. They'll let people sit cooped up in "waiting homes" for years and years before even administering deportation orders, and then they postpone that, too. Meanwhile, the asylum-seekers in question have to put their life on hold without the means to start rebuilding a life in either their country of origin nor here.
It's a chicken-shit approach and it seems to me like the politicians are all passing the hot potato until some poor newbie arrives that just has to make the unpopular decision.