Immigration laws

[David Morison]

Re: Immigration laws

PS: I suspect the conditions that these refugees left are even worse. The flows into southern europe (Italy, etc) are significant and a drain on weak sovereign budgets.

Given that migrants regularly die trying to cross the Mediterranean, I'd agree things would have to be pretty bad to force people to take the risk.
Just a couple of examples from within the last few months:
http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21606301-more-horrific-deaths-mediterranean-tidal-wave
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24499890

 

[Randy Gartner]

Re: Immigration laws

I have to agree with Tom and Andy.Some democrats want them to come here as possible future voters and some republicans want them to come here as cheap labor.Perhaps Canada has the right idea and that is,someone coming into the country can't take a job away from an American citizen.We supposedly have a quota system based on what jobs we need to fill.But what good is a quota system if we have people coming across our border at will ?And then we tell them,it's ok,we'll give you citizenship ahead of all those people who are trying to come here legally.And I believe that's why we have this massive influx of people coming across the border now.They also believe they will get citizenship so they keep coming.We need to secure the border and then come up with a plan to allow people into the country as needed.

 

[John Roberts]

Re: Immigration laws

I have to agree with Tom and Andy.Some democrats want them to come here as possible future voters and some republicans want them to come here as cheap labor.Perhaps Canada has the right idea and that is,someone coming into the country can't take a job away from an American citizen.We supposedly have a quota system based on what jobs we need to fill.But what good is a quota system if we have people coming across our border at will ?And then we tell them,it's ok,we'll give you citizenship ahead of all those people who are trying to come here legally.And I believe that's why we have this massive influx of people coming across the border now.They also believe they will get citizenship so they keep coming.We need to secure the border and then come up with a plan to allow people into the country as needed.

It seems like Washington is long on immigration plans but short on execution of the plans (laws) we already have. The border was supposed to be secured after the last time they reformed immigration. Still waiting. That said militarizing the border is not the answer to the recent refugee issue, while we need some hardening to reduce drug trafficking and probably worse coming through our porous border.

IMO the real problem now is messaging that makes these non-citizens believe that all they need to do is get feet in the US and they are home free. The political wrangling around this issue is pretty transparent and ugly.

We do not have to militarize our northern border because there is no huge economic benefit from crossing illegally. As long as we reward these illegal immigrant coming across our southern border they will keep coming.

We are a wealthy and generous nation. We can come up with ways to provide economic relief for these refugees with work permits but still non-citizen status.

We need more legal immigration, and a chief executive who doesn't play fast and loose with our existing laws. I do not think these SA parents would send their children on these dangerous trips if they didn't think there was a pot of gold at the end of the journey.

Good luck to us and children.

JR

 

[John Roberts]

Re: Immigration laws

Stop press... The US government just flew 39 children and their mothers back to Honduras. Not exactly a game changer but at least a step in the right direction.

Lets hope this new messaging theme has some impact and cancels the former "permiso" theme.

JR

 

[Richard McLawhorn]

Re: Immigration laws

Regarding who would want to live in Canada, lots of people. They have a huge community of Chinese immigrants and are gracious about accepting immigrants from everywhere.

Instead of sending the busloads of kids back to where they came from, we could just forward them on to canada!

 

[John Roberts]

Re: Immigration laws

Instead of sending the busloads of kids back to where they came from, we could just forward them on to canada!

Canada is already pretty generous about immigration.

it is our border so our problem.

One of the small details about being a sovereign nation and not a flash mob..

JR

 

[Chuck Simon]

Re: Immigration laws

We need more legal immigration, and a chief executive who doesn't play fast and loose with our existing laws. I do not think these SA parents would send their children on these dangerous trips if they didn't think there was a pot of gold at the end of the journey.
JR

You mean like the The William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008 that passed the U.S. Senate by unanimous consent and was signed into law by President George W. Bush.

The legislation said that illegal immigrant children must “be promptly placed in the least restrictive setting that is in the best interest of the child.”

I think some of you should look beyond FOX news for your information.

 

[Ben Gingerich]

Re: Immigration laws

You mean like the The William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008 that passed the U.S. Senate by unanimous consent and was signed into law by President George W. Bush.

The legislation said that illegal immigrant children must “be promptly placed in the least restrictive setting that is in the best interest of the child.”

I think some of you should look beyond FOX news for your information.

Or "The Victims of Trafficking and Violence Protection Act of 2000" that was signed by President Clinton, that was reauhorized as "The William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008" that the same phrase was found in.

I dont want to speak for John but I dont think he is saying we need to drastically add or change our existing laws, we just need to follow them and enforce them... Whats the point of having a government if we dont follow (or even attempt to follow) the laws.

 

[John Roberts]

Re: Immigration laws

Yes, we need to enforce our laws as written (even including all those other laws not about immigration), but I am receptive to adjusting our law WRT the formal legal hearing process. If these children and illegal immigrants simply do not show up for hearings we need to adjust how we process them. Similar illegals from Canada or Mexico simply get turned around at the border. If an expedited process leads to a result that is more in line with the laws intention, it seems like it would be useful.

As I've stated earlier it was my suspicion that this increase in illegal immigration is based on the false (should be false?) belief that Illegals can stay here if they can manage to get here. This false understanding IMO comes from administration messaging and political posturing, media reports, and even drug/human traffickers working their own angles. A recent report was released where immigration officials interviewed a number of these unaccompanied children and ninety something percent indeed were advised by people where they came from that if they could get here they could stay here. So basically we have a failure to communicate what our laws really are, and ongoing uncertainty about how those laws will be enforced by this administration who has already made changes to immigration enforcement and promised more.

Another data point, approximately 50% of children who have legal representation at these immigration hearings get to stay, while 80-90% of those who are not legally represented get deported. I'll let you draw your own conclusions from that. This data is surely distorted by how few actually show up for these hearings. Certainly those with some justification to stay are more likely to work within the system.

I see this border mess as a direct consequence of bad policy and self-serving political messaging... Words have consequences and some politicians play fast and loose with language and make promises they can't or shouldn't keep. But actions matter too, so hopefully somebody in these SA countries will notice the 39 illegals we flew back to Honduras (?) last week. I am afraid they will take a different message from what they see reported in the news.

JR

PS: I agree people shouldn't get their news from Fox, or MSNBC, or NBC, or ABC, or CBS, or CNN, or here. While I find Fox more balanced in their political commentary, their opinion shows dress to the right. I find newspapers and triangulation between multiple news sources more reliable for keeping up with world events. I do not need some television talking head to think for me.

 

[Chuck Simon]

Re: Immigration laws

I happen to think that the greatest country in the world should welcome these desperate children and treat them as future citizens, regardless of who they may grow up voting for. Especially a country where you can't get elected unless you call yourself a Christian! If Lebanon can handle two million refugees I think the wealthiest country in the world can afford 50,000 children! In the past we have supported the corrupt governments that are creating the situation that makes people so desperate they that send their children away!

 

[John Roberts]

Re: Immigration laws

I happen to think that the greatest country in the world should welcome these desperate children and treat them as future citizens, regardless of who they may grow up voting for.

A nice thought, but our government is writing checks it can't cover already. It will take a few $B just to beef up the immigration courts and handle these desperate children in the short term. The federal governments idea of handling them is putting them on a bus to a town near you.

If we have this many coming here illegally, how many do you think would come if we opened the floodgates?

Especially a country where you can't get elected unless you call yourself a Christian!

Not sure I grasp the relevance of that... A Romney reference?

If Lebanon can handle two million refugees I think the wealthiest country in the world can afford 50,000 children!

Lebanon has been a basket case for decades. The recent refugees displaced by the civil war in Syria are not exactly prospering, while I guess for them it is all relative, better than being gassed. Syria has had a strange relationship with Lebanon and Syria was linked to assassinating Hariri a popular moderate ex-premier of Lebanon years ago..

In the past we have supported the corrupt governments that are creating the situation that makes people so desperate they that send their children away!

The world is complicated... While appeasement is rarely the optimal path we can not unilaterally withdraw from the world either, like we appear to be trying recently with our "leading from behind" strategy. How is that working out? Have you seen the world news for just today?

Looks like a bad year for Malaysian airlines among others.

JR

 

[James Wright]

Re: Immigration laws

I happen to think that the greatest country in the world should welcome these desperate children and treat them as future citizens, regardless of who they may grow up voting for. Especially a country where you can't get elected unless you call yourself a Christian! If Lebanon can handle two million refugees I think the wealthiest country in the world can afford 50,000 children! In the past we have supported the corrupt governments that are creating the situation that makes people so desperate they that send their children away!

Greatest country in the world? Which one is that then?

 

[Randy Gartner]

Re: Immigration laws

You mean like the The William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008 that passed the U.S. Senate by unanimous consent and was signed into law by President George W. Bush.

The legislation said that illegal immigrant children must “be promptly placed in the least restrictive setting that is in the best interest of the child.”

I think some of you should look beyond FOX news for your information.

The law was very specific in who we would take in.It is not a general amnesty for any child who walks across the border.

 

[Randy Gartner]

Re: Immigration laws

I happen to think that the greatest country in the world should welcome these desperate children and treat them as future citizens, regardless of who they may grow up voting for. Especially a country where you can't get elected unless you call yourself a Christian! If Lebanon can handle two million refugees I think the wealthiest country in the world can afford 50,000 children! In the past we have supported the corrupt governments that are creating the situation that makes people so desperate they that send their children away!

Except,we are $17 trillion in debt.We don't have enough money to pay for healthcare for my fellow veterans.We don't have enough money to pay to fix our roads and bridges plus,it's not fair to all the people that waited ( or are waiting) in line and pay thousands of dollars to come here legally.

 

[John Roberts]

Re: Immigration laws

The last year I could find data for 2011 shows that we gave :

El Salvador $280M in foreign aid
Honduras $624M in foreign aid
Guatemala $391M in foreign aid.

Perhaps we should use the money budgeted for foreign aid to these countries to pay for the costs we incur here caring for their citizens who illegally cross our borders.

We are a great and wealthy nation, but there are limits to even our charity. I invite people who feel so inclined to adopt some of the orphans from these countries, I can not imagine adopting entire families, but whatever floats your boat. Do not help me spend my money by suggesting we take on more debt.

JR

PS: The words and actions continue to encourage this bad situation not deter it. A recent legislative report mentions that 2/3 of asylum requests are granted administratively, so these children do not even have to go to immigration court hearings. This behavior and reports of that by media are going to encourage even more to come. For more bad news, something like 70% of the asylum claims involved fraud. This is a train wreck and as I have been saying a direct result of this administration's behavior and messaging. What could they possibly be thinking? While I think I understand the general political thesis, the reality in practice is not so simple.

 

[Randy Gartner]

Re: Immigration laws

The last year I could find data for 2011 shows that we gave :

El Salvador $280M in foreign aid
Honduras $624M in foreign aid
Guatemala $391M in foreign aid.

Perhaps we should use the money budgeted for foreign aid to these countries to pay for the costs we incur here caring for their citizens who illegally cross our borders.

We are a great and wealthy nation, but there are limits to even our charity. I invite people who feel so inclined to adopt some of the orphans from these countries, I can not imagine adopting entire families, but whatever floats your boat. Do not help me spend my money by suggesting we take on more debt.

JR

PS: The words and actions continue to encourage this bad situation not deter it. A recent legislative report mentions that 2/3 of asylum requests are granted administratively, so these children do not even have to go to immigration court hearings. This behavior and reports of that by media are going to encourage even more to come. For more bad news, something like 70% of the asylum claims involved fraud. This is a train wreck and as I have been saying a direct result of this administration's behavior and messaging. What could they possibly be thinking? While I think I understand the general political thesis, the reality in practice is not so simple.

John, I like your idea.Stopping the foreign aid to those countries might just get their attention and maybe then,they would do something.

 

[John Roberts]

Re: Immigration laws

John, I like your idea.Stopping the foreign aid to those countries might just get their attention and maybe then,they would do something.

Pres Obama is scheduled to meet with the leaders of those three countries soon. I suspect he will try to use a carrot rather than stick. I have even heard suggestions of a new "Marshal plan" for the area, (like after WWII) but that's just politicians drunk on spending wanting another excuse to spend more. We are already spending borrowed money so don't need to borrow more to spend more elsewhere.

The stick sounds more like congress might suggest while I haven't heard any such specific rumblings. They appear to be refusing to give the administration a couple $B in emergency funding to throw at this "sudden" crisis without comprehensive immigration reform. While there little agreement about what comprehensive immigration reform would look like, and less chance of compromise with mid-term elections in a few months.

This emergency on the border, upon closer inspection does not appear to be very sudden, and does appear self-inflicted IMO.

JR

 

[Randy Gartner]

Re: Immigration laws

We have a childrens home about 2 miles from my house that is housing some of these kids.My neighbor works there and I installed 2 sound systems for them a few years ago.The local paper said they're being paid,$77.00 a day per kid.There's 34 kids at the moment so that would be $78,540.00 per month. At $77.00 a day per kid,times 30 days it comes to $2,310.00 per month.Times 60,000 kids,it comes out to around $14 million a month. No wonder Obama is asking for $3.7 billion.Imagine how far this would go towards fixing our roads or taking care of our vets?

 

[John Roberts]

Re: Immigration laws

One central issue worth examining is how much culpability do we have for the situation in these countries that makes the dangerous and illegal immigration seem like a good decision. While I do not know who is buying all these illegal drugs, the US is reportedly the big customer el norte powering this illegal activity.

There have been active anti-drug trade programs for decades, and like whack-a-mole as we shut down various routes for the smuggling they pop up elsewhere. While at one time the Caribbean and boats were the main smuggling vehicle, successful interdiction there has shifted that traffic to overland routes taking advantage of the porous Mexican border.

So we return to sealing the border as unfinished business that is our responsibility. Stopping the illegal drug trade is easier said than done. I am not a big fan of decriminalized marijuana but nobody can deny that this will bring millions of dollars of previously illegal activity into the sunlight, reducing the unintended side effects that accompany illegal operations.

I do not think we as a nation are ready to decriminalize all drugs but only something like that could alter the dynamic in those SA countries over night.

If we ramp up the anti-drug activity in those three countries, I fear it will be another case of whack-a-mole as the drug trade adjusts to find new bases and routes.

IMO the solution to the illegal immigration problem has always been two-part. First improve the barriers at the border to make it harder to come across, but second and at least as important is reduce the reward for illegally entering and living here. If illegal immigrants could not get work here, and increasingly free handouts, there would be little reason to come here.

Our handling of part two is as bad or worse than our handling of part one, and some even argue for open borders and expanded entitlements for all.

I do not see any easy answers to this and not much honest discussion about the underlying problem (illegal drug trade).

Just one of several poorly managed policy issues we face.

JR

 

[John Norris]

Re: Immigration laws

IMO the solution to the illegal immigration problem has always been two-part. First improve the barriers at the border to make it harder to come across, but second and at least as important is reduce the reward for illegally entering and living here. If illegal immigrants could not get work here, and increasingly free handouts, there would be little reason to come here....

Just one of several poorly managed policy issues we face.

JR

Heretofore unstated in this discussion is the fact that the anti-birth control policies of the Catholic Church, the dominant religion in Central America and Mexico and the US Supreme Court (6 of 9, with only Sotomayor voting against Hobby Lobby, for instance) almost ensure that illegal immigration from the southern border will be an ongoing dilemma.