Immigration laws

Re: Immigration laws

I believe you're comparing apples and Oranges. Remaining "Commonwealth Laws" ensure you have the right to settle in other "Commonweath Nations". Not certain about Canada, but absolutely certain about NZ and Oz!

I don't have the 'right' to settle in NZ/OZ but because they use a skills based system, rather than a heavily family based system (of course there are other ways but I am not a millionaire sportsman), it makes it far easier to emigrate if I wanted to bring my skills to the country without being related to a national.

My reason for living in the US is because I am married to one and she was missing home.
 
Re: Immigration laws

Sorry I haven't been on here for a few days to respond.But if you read the thread about working and bringing equipment into Canada and all the paper work etc.Plus,they won't let you in if you have a DUI.Yet we have 12 million illegals here already and now have according to reports another 60,000 came in since the beginning of the year.Some of them are criminals,have diseases no jobs lined up etc.My grandparents immigrated from Germany in 1925.My grandfather had to have a sponsor,a job lined up etc. My great grandmother came with them and she had to return to Germany to have a spot on her face removed before she came in here because they told her they didn't want her to be a burden on the American people.I have a friend who wants to immigrate from Germany.He speaks perfect English,has skills we could use,yet I was told by the local congressional office that the only way he can get in here is to marry an American woman.It's not fair to those that are trying to come here legally or those that are waiting in line while allowing illegals who come here to become citizens. We need to control our borders the way Canada controls theirs.
 
Re: Immigration laws

Sorry I haven't been on here for a few days to respond.But if you read the thread about working and bringing equipment into Canada and all the paper work etc.Plus,they won't let you in if you have a DUI.Yet we have 12 million illegals here already and now have according to reports another 60,000 came in since the beginning of the year.Some of them are criminals,have diseases no jobs lined up etc.My grandparents immigrated from Germany in 1925.My grandfather had to have a sponsor,a job lined up etc. My great grandmother came with them and she had to return to Germany to have a spot on her face removed before she came in here because they told her they didn't want her to be a burden on the American people.I have a friend who wants to immigrate from Germany.He speaks perfect English,has skills we could use,yet I was told by the local congressional office that the only way he can get in here is to marry an American woman.It's not fair to those that are trying to come here legally or those that are waiting in line while allowing illegals who come here to become citizens. We need to control our borders the way Canada controls theirs.

The border with Canada has longer undefended boundary than our border with Mexico. We have no idea how many people cross into Canada without documentation or for what purposes. And the roughly 1000 miles between the US-Mexico and US-Canada borders is probably seen as unnecessary to traverse by those who make it over the southern border.

You're making an apples/oranges comparison.
 
Re: Immigration laws

Sorry I haven't been on here for a few days to respond. But if you read the thread about working and bringing equipment into Canada and all the paper work etc. Plus, they won't let you in if you have a DUI. Yet we have 12 million illegals here already and now have according to reports another 60,000 came in since the beginning of the year. Some of them are criminals, have diseases no jobs lined up etc. My grandparents immigrated from Germany in 1925.My grandfather had to have a sponsor, a job lined up etc. My great grandmother came with them and she had to return to Germany to have a spot on her face removed before she came in here because they told her they didn't want her to be a burden on the American people. I have a friend who wants to immigrate from Germany. He speaks perfect English, has skills we could use, yet I was told by the local congressional office that the only way he can get in here is to marry an American woman. It's not fair to those that are trying to come here legally or those that are waiting in line while allowing illegals who come here to become citizens. We need to control our borders the way Canada controls theirs.

Randy, apparently your point was lost. I get it. Why (purposely) let illegal immigrants pour in [on the southern border], while making it overly difficult or impossible for people who trying to do it legally and who would benefit U.S. society with their skills? The answer is an administration that actually wants as many illegal immigrants as possible to cross over the southern border. They are future voters. Consider what's been done to make it easier for anyone to sneak in illegally and that this administration has outright refused to enforce U.S. immigration laws. The number of actual deportations is significantly down. One of the more immediate hopeful outcomes is to turn Texas blue, but the long term goal is to reach a super majority for the Democratic Party.
 
Re: Immigration laws

The answer is an administration that actually wants as many illegal immigrants as possible to cross over the southern border. They are future voters.
I don't believe it's as much purely political as it is business. Businesses need cheap labour and big business runs the government. If the rich want illegals, they'll get them, but Washington will spin it so that the voters that are against illegal immigration believe that something is being done about it.
 
Re: Immigration laws

I don't have the 'right' to settle in NZ/OZ but because they use a skills based system, rather than a heavily family based system (of course there are other ways but I am not a millionaire sportsman), it makes it far easier to emigrate if I wanted to bring my skills to the country without being related to a national.

My reason for living in the US is because I am married to one and she was missing home.

James.

Sorry for my previous incorrect statements. They were posted on good faith, as I had just read a book where this was described as the truth.

After a Google search, the closest I can seem to get is something called an ancestry visa, where "Commonwealth-citizens" with one grandparent who was born in the UK can expatriate and go stay in the UK indefinitely.

I'll check more carefully on such matters in the future!
 
Re: Immigration laws

I don't believe it's as much purely political as it is business. Businesses need cheap labour and big business runs the government. If the rich want illegals, they'll get them, but Washington will spin it so that the voters that are against illegal immigration believe that something is being done about it.

The simple answer for this is that it's complicated. Immigration and borders is not checkers (fences and walls) but chess (deny the illegal rewards).

As I posted earlier the "next move" short term for the current situation, is to fly a few ten thousand back to Honduras and Guatemala so they understand visibly that there is no open door. But that is only part of the issue. Yes the right (business) likes cheap labor, and the left (?) likes new voters who embrace and would be beholden to a paternalistic (maternalistic?) government, but we should be more thoughtful about this. As it is we deny too many who want to immigrate legally who would contribute to the greater good and not be a drain on the system but they are denied.

I appreciate it sounds selfish to deny open arms to all these children but if we really cared we would work to stop the violence in their home countries.

JR
 
Re: Immigration laws

if we really cared we would work to stop the violence in their home countries.
I do not understand why this should be my problem.

It is their country, they are not happy with it, THEY SHOULD WORK TOWARDS CHANGING IT.

If enough people are unhappy with the way it is, they can change anything.

I (We, the collective "We" of the USA) do not need to be involved.

Running away from a problem never fixed the problem.
 
Re: Immigration laws

I do not understand why this should be my problem.

It is their country, they are not happy with it, THEY SHOULD WORK TOWARDS CHANGING IT.

If enough people are unhappy with the way it is, they can change anything.

I (We, the collective "We" of the USA) do not need to be involved.

Running away from a problem never fixed the problem.

When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember that you're there to drain the swamp.
 
Re: Immigration laws

I do not understand why this should be my problem.
The US received help from other countries when we first fought for our own independence, and over the few centuries we have been a country we have helped many others win independence and enjoy rule of law.

Today we trade with countries all around the world so our prosperity is linked to the entire world's prosperity. Unfortunately some of the SA countries where the recent inrush of immigrants are coming from that trade is of the illegal variety.
It is their country, they are not happy with it, THEY SHOULD WORK TOWARDS CHANGING IT.
Easier said than done... The US was populated by people who were oppressed in their home country so voted with their feet to live in the new world.
If enough people are unhappy with the way it is, they can change anything.
Yes, but well armed criminal enterprises, that get cover from bribed government officials are hard to displace. For poor SA countries to displace the drug trade is in many cases biting the hand that feeds them as a leading industry for some poor nations.
I (We, the collective "We" of the USA) do not need to be involved.
Unfortunately we already are. Current US law says we must shelter these illegal immigrants and provide them with legal hearings. They use this as an opportunity to escape the system once here. Obama is asking congress for a couple $B to pretty much fund the status quo. He talks of ramping up the immigration courts but they'll still walk away if not incarcerated until their hearings. I think we need to change the law to the way we treat illegal Mexican and Canadian immigrants (immediate return). Our tax dollars are indeed very involved.
Running away from a problem never fixed the problem.

I am not sure who and which problem you are talking about running away from. Moving to the US generally provides a better individual outcome than trying to eliminate personal poverty as an individual in a poor nation.

If we run away from the world's problems that will not end well. Imagine if we did not get involved in WWI or WWII?

I do not want to turn this into a broader policy rant (and you probably don't want to hear me), but we are already involved in this immigration mismanagement SNAFU and there will be direct costs of billions of dollars, indirect costs to the wider economy will be more than that.

IMO it would be better to have spent those $B in improving the circumstances in those other countries but that window has already closed. Now it's about reducing the damage here from what we have allowed this to deteriorate into. I am not optimistic about the government not playing politics with these children.

JR
 
Re: Immigration laws

I do not understand why this should be my problem.

It is their country, they are not happy with it, THEY SHOULD WORK TOWARDS CHANGING IT.

If enough people are unhappy with the way it is, they can change anything.

I (We, the collective "We" of the USA) do not need to be involved.

Running away from a problem never fixed the problem.

If you only knew how selfish that makes you seem.

You and I, as citizens of free countries, have always been protected by free speech, rule of law, etc. Even education and welfare. If you make money, you get to keep an amount to yourself that is dictated by rules. If you buy land it's yours. If you invest money and the investment works out, the earnings are yours (minus tax). If you build a business that's making money, it's yours to live off of.

If you're a "nobody" somewhere in the third world, just barely feeding your familily, in a good year with no drought, etc: And the leaders of your country are too busy lining their pockets to even know or care you exist, and rivalling gangs or religious clans take turns burning your crops, recruiting your kids for slave labour or military "duty" and the mafia comes by every so often and "taxes" you with no law or rule. Not to mention, even if you had the means to go to the west temporarily to make some money to send home, or try to sell something of value, the western countries won't even let you due to import and immigration laws.

I agree that the solution is to make things better in the socalled countries-of-origin, but thinking that the oppressed can just "work it out" is naive at best.
 
Re: Immigration laws

Also, when we fought our Revolution everyone had single shot rifles and that was it. Today a Gov't will have machine guns, maybe tanks and helicopters, planes... Etc. makes it kind of hard to organize and fight back. It seems that the US might have been involved in some arms dealings in the past.
 
Re: Immigration laws

My point is, why is the USA appointed as the world's police force?

I'm not saying the USA is a panacea, far from it in fact.

Kristian, I know the following comment was in reference to the countries that everyone is running away from, but it seems to apply far too readily to the government that is supposed to represent me.
"the leaders of your country are too busy lining their pockets to even know or care you exist"

...and JR, yes. We are already involved and our immigration systems have been systemically broken for far too long. However, as has been pointed out by others, they are kept that way on purpose by this same government that continues to bear no resemblance to representing me. I'd like to see those billions of dollars being spent around this country. You know, reinvesting the money the tax paying public are paying in in THIS country instead of spreading it all around the rest of the world. We are hurting HERE, why is our money going THERE?

So yes, call me selfish, but it is actually my very own dollars that are being spent to do this stuff. I'd prefer to see some investment in this country rather than paying for wars in other countries.
 
Re: Immigration laws

My point is, why is the USA appointed as the world's police force?
You should be very happy with our current president who is back pedaling from that top cop gig as fast as he can, and trying to lead from behind, even inside the US.
I'm not saying the USA is a panacea, far from it in fact.
Ah "Panacea" the Greek goddess of universal remedy. No we are not a panacea for all the world's ills but if we do not stand up and use our power for good, that vacuum will be filled by bad actors, with bad intentions, doing bad. Just watch the news from the middle east to see what our fiddling while the region burns can lead to. For some reason we still have troops in Germany and Japan decades after WWII, but feel compelled to pull out of Iraq completely before they have this democracy thing all figured out. If you study our own history we didn't hit the ground running but took years to get a government running fairly smoothly while even that is debatable.

Afghanistan will not end well if we likewise pull out completely. At the moment Afghanistan's two pro-western presidential candidates are refusing to accept the run-off vote count. I'm shocked, they question the integrity of the vote process is Afghanistan, poster boy for corruption, among a number of similarly challenged countries.
Kristian, I know the following comment was in reference to the countries that everyone is running away from, but it seems to apply far too readily to the government that is supposed to represent me.
"the leaders of your country are too busy lining their pockets to even know or care you exist"
I fear it is worse than that... but don't get me started.
...and JR, yes. We are already involved and our immigration systems have been systemically broken for far too long. However, as has been pointed out by others, they are kept that way on purpose by this same government that continues to bear no resemblance to representing me. I'd like to see those billions of dollars being spent around this country. You know, reinvesting the money the tax paying public are paying in in THIS country instead of spreading it all around the rest of the world. We are hurting HERE, why is our money going THERE?
Actually we fixed immigration once before, but in classic government mismanagement didn't close the border, so now there is another crop taught to expect amnesty by that previous reform. Look at what we do, not what we say.

We are one world, we benefit from raising up the poor all around the world. However i do find fault with how poorly the US government manages everything they touch. It is hard to complain personally about our stunted recovery when you compare our situation to the rest of the world. It does make me angry seeing how we could make a few economic policy changes and end the malaise, but slow growth here, is still better than even weaker growth or recession in many other parts of the world.

Us complaining about the US economy sounds like Hillary complaining about how poor she was when they left the White House, and had to scrape together enough money to buy a couple houses.

So yes, call me selfish, but it is actually my very own dollars that are being spent to do this stuff. I'd prefer to see some investment in this country rather than paying for wars in other countries.

It's worse than that, they are also borrowing money our children will have to pay back to fund these adventures. We have done a lot of good all around the world but much of those recent gains seem etherial and likely to reverse if not maintained.

JR

PS: the good news is we could ignore ISIS for a decade and even if they managed to fly a hijacked aircraft into a building here there are no skyscrapers in Meridian to take down.
 
Re: Immigration laws

PS: the good news is we could ignore ISIS for a decade and even if they managed to fly a hijacked aircraft into a building here there are no skyscrapers in Meridian to take down.
Well, we could benefit from the flying an aircraft into the biggest building in this town. It is literally falling down all around us but no one in the city government wants to step up and fix the problem by either tearing it down or getting a renovation plan in place. So there it sits, rotting.

My biggest issue with the middle east is that these factions that are at war have been at war for centuries. Who are we to walk into town and say "Hey now, you guys knock off the killing and come make peace." That kind of thing is never going to happen.

These people are born into a system which instills in them a pure hatred so visceral that there is no possibility for ever considering or discussing any kind of peace or cease fire.

The other problem is that they know we will always play by the rules, but they do not allow the rules to encumber them. So, they use the rules to their advantage. The only person who is going to win at this game is the person who is willing to do what another person is not willing to do. That can mean anything from breaking the rules to straight up horrific torture and mutilation. Just think for a minute about how far you would be willing to go, now imagine someone else who would be willing to go farther, that is the person who will win.
 
Re: Immigration laws

Well, we could benefit from the flying an aircraft into the biggest building in this town. It is literally falling down all around us but no one in the city government wants to step up and fix the problem by either tearing it down or getting a renovation plan in place. So there it sits, rotting.
Probably a money thing...
My biggest issue with the middle east is that these factions that are at war have been at war for centuries. Who are we to walk into town and say "Hey now, you guys knock off the killing and come make peace." That kind of thing is never going to happen.
You could make a similar statement about Europe a century ago... but these days they get along more or less.

Most people put killing people from other religions or tribes pretty low on their daily to-do list after providing food and shelter for their family. The problem is not the entire region's population, but a radical fringe that wants to establish a caliphate and mandate shari'ah law by force, not choice. While it seems like moderate islam should just squash this radical minority like a bug, they instead get cornered into sunni vs shia (or insert your favorite) conflicts and accept that the other guy who is not like them is OK to kill. Us non-believer, infidels are likewise fair game and need killin.

I look to India as a template for a huge democracy where multiple diverse religions live side by side in "relative" harmony.

It can be done, but if you convince yourself that it can not be done, so do not try, you are right by your own definition.
These people are born into a system which instills in them a pure hatred so visceral that there is no possibility for ever considering or discussing any kind of peace or cease fire.
That is going on all around the world but yes the system of madrases is not quite altruistic. We are born pure and taught to hate.
The other problem is that they know we will always play by the rules, but they do not allow the rules to encumber them. So, they use the rules to their advantage. The only person who is going to win at this game is the person who is willing to do what another person is not willing to do. That can mean anything from breaking the rules to straight up horrific torture and mutilation. Just think for a minute about how far you would be willing to go, now imagine someone else who would be willing to go farther, that is the person who will win.
Yes, but asymmetrical warfare is not exactly new, and it can be beat, it just takes more effort.

There are many people who gave their lives for peace over there. I hope they did not die in vain.

JR
 
Re: Immigration laws

There are many people who gave their lives for peace over there. I hope they did not die in vain.
You and I both hope for the same thing.

I have been personally touched by the USA's involvement over there a couple of times, for better and for worse. I know many others have been as well.

Indeed, I do hope it is not all for naught.
 
Re: Immigration laws

You know, it's the same here. They'll let people sit cooped up in "waiting homes" for years and years before even administering deportation orders, and then they postpone that, too. Meanwhile, the asylum-seekers in question have to put their life on hold without the means to start rebuilding a life in either their country of origin nor here.

It's a chicken-shit approach and it seems to me like the politicians are all passing the hot potato until some poor newbie arrives that just has to make the unpopular decision.

oh, I see you've been following german news :/

I live in the middle of all of the recent hotspots concerning refugees in berlin. It is heartbreaking to see their conditions and know there isnt a damn thing i can do. Millions have been spent in the last couple weeks to evict people living in an abandoned building. At the same time, our local civic services have all but shut down. While all of this was brewing, we have an airport billions over budget, with no opening date in sight, and the mayor pushed to build an arena-expensive library. Immigrants made america great and rebuilt decimated european nations. It's a shame not to embrace a new round of tax payers.
 
Re: Immigration laws

I do not understand why this should be my problem.

It is their country, they are not happy with it, THEY SHOULD WORK TOWARDS CHANGING IT.

If enough people are unhappy with the way it is, they can change anything.

I (We, the collective "We" of the USA) do not need to be involved.

Running away from a problem never fixed the problem.

There have been enough instances of western corporate interests (most notably mining and manufacturing) profiting from the disastrous environmental and social problems that none of us should be surprised when people from lesser prosperous nations seek a new life in "ours."
 
Re: Immigration laws

To add an incongruous data point for those who think religious belief has something to do with the killings around the world there are recent reports about christian militias in the Central African Republic openly killing muslims. So religious affiliation and teaching seems mainly a way to identify or discriminate the "us" from "them" between competing groups prone to violence.

Sorry no easy answers, and peace maintained by warlords imposing their personal version of rule of law is not a very satisfactory solution, especially for those out of favor. I'd even support an UN-like organization providing rule of law in lawless regions but can't say I really trust the actual UN to do that. Just like many people don't trust the US to be world cop.

JR

PS: I suspect the conditions that these refugees left are even worse. The flows into southern europe (Italy, etc) are significant and a drain on weak sovereign budgets.