Is anyone's business affected by politics?

While I don't have much respect for congress,I have less for the president.As Jason pointed out,there was no reason to shut down the FCC website.There was mo reason to shut down the open air mall in Washington and trying to keep our WWII vets from getting to their own memorial.These things were done to make maixmum discomfort for the public so Obama will not have to negotiate.Remember,we wouldn't be in this position if the senate dems put together a budget.Instead we have to run our goverment through continuing resolutions (CR's).This is no way to run a government. The Prez met with house leaders last night and before the meeting,his press secretary said Obama wasn't going to negotiate over the debt limit.A leader,is supposed to bring people together and seek compromise.Obama isn't a leader.He never had any leadership experience.He wasn't a mayor,governor,a business owner or even a Boy Scout.He has no experience leading anything.And I feel pretty much the same way about John Boehner,Mcitch McCobnnel and Harry Reid.Not one leader in the whole bunch.

Well, the prez doesn't decide what to close. There are laws that dictate that.
Also, isn't it the houses responsibility to originate funding and budget bills?

The republicans in the house have been abundantly clear that they won't back down. How does one negotiate with them?

I am very nonpolitical so I am just commenting on what I am seeing.

I think congress makes little kids at the playground look adult :-(

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Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

Well, the prez doesn't decide what to close. There are laws that dictate that.
Also, isn't it the houses responsibility to originate funding and budget bills?

The republicans in the house have been abundantly clear that they won't back down. How does one negotiate with them?

I am very nonpolitical so I am just commenting on what I am seeing.

I think congress makes little kids at the playground look adult :-(

Sent from my iPad HD

Both sides have drawn hard lines in the sand... I find it difficult to hold one or the other fully responsible for the impasse. We certainly are not going to get credible input from the evening news sound bit du jour.

Relax, and like a crying baby they will stop eventually.

The only people calling this a crisis are them. Think about that.

JR
 
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

While I don't have much respect for congress,I have less for the president.As Jason pointed out,there was no reason to shut down the FCC website.There was mo reason to shut down the open air mall in Washington and trying to keep our WWII vets from getting to their own memorial.These things were done to make maixmum discomfort for the public so Obama will not have to negotiate.Remember,we wouldn't be in this position if the senate dems put together a budget.Instead we have to run our goverment through continuing resolutions (CR's).This is no way to run a government. The Prez met with house leaders last night and before the meeting,his press secretary said Obama wasn't going to negotiate over the debt limit.A leader,is supposed to bring people together and seek compromise.Obama isn't a leader.He never had any leadership experience.He wasn't a mayor,governor,a business owner or even a Boy Scout.He has no experience leading anything.And I feel pretty much the same way about John Boehner,Mcitch McCobnnel and Harry Reid.Not one leader in the whole bunch.

Obama did compromise on health care. The LAW we have now is a compromise. He wanted a single payer option, among other things that he didn't get. The law that the Tea Party is trying to defund is the result of bipartisan compromise.
 
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

Another interesting sidebar to the shutdown. This is the start for the major hunting season where your local mom and pop gun shop makes their profit for the year, AND they can't sell any guns. EDIT: I was misinformed. It seems there was a rumor going around gun stores that the NICS would be shut down but that is incorrect.
 
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Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

Obama did compromise on health care. The LAW we have now is a compromise. He wanted a single payer option, among other things that he didn't get. The law that the Tea Party is trying to defund is the result of bipartisan compromise.

While it is academic to rehash every detail after the fact, the democrats had a super majority when the bulk of the healthcare bill was crafted, so if anything conservative (or less progressive) elements of the democratic party thwarted the immediate adoption of single payer. IMO the largest problem with healthcare costs before the bill was large insurance companies being the middle men between the consumer and health care provider, eliminating the influence of free market dynamics to stimulate innovation and reduce costs. The highly regulated health insurance exchanges and crony capitalism relationship between big insurance and big government will come to be indistinguishable from government being the single payer, keeping free market forces out of the equation.
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This is all water over the dam at this point and I do not believe the republican faction has any real hope of pulling this off. It is within their legal right to selectively withhold funding but that does not mean they can win in the court of public opinion with the deck stacked against them by a biased media.

IMO time to zip up and put their peckers away before they get them caught up in something important like the debt ceiling (oct 17), and they are cut off.

JR

PS: I look forward to watching them try to make sense of and rehabilitate this flawed legislation since I doubt it will ever be repealed. Americans like their free sh__ even when they are ultimately paying for it. At some point the books need to balance on spending this large.
 
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

Obama did compromise on health care. The LAW we have now is a compromise. He wanted a single payer option, among other things that he didn't get. The law that the Tea Party is trying to defund is the result of bipartisan compromise.

No,he did not compromise on helathcare.he didn't get one republican vote.Not even Susan Collins or Olympia Snow voted for it and they are 2 of the most liberla republicans in the senate!
 
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

Well, the prez doesn't decide what to close. There are laws that dictate that.
Also, isn't it the houses responsibility to originate funding and budget bills?

The republicans in the house have been abundantly clear that they won't back down. How does one negotiate with them?

I am very nonpolitical so I am just commenting on what I am seeing.



I think congress makes little kids at the playground look adult :-(

Sent from my iPad HD

Rob,tell me who decided to close down the National Parks but keep funding Obamacare?Tell me who decided to fence off the Vietnam and WWII Memorials? The administration certainly made those decisions.
 
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

If we argue among ourselves the political puppet masters are winning. As long as they think they can win the public debate they will keep trying, and not engage each other privately.

Ignore the public spin from both sides.. Both sides need to sit down and talk to each other.

This is not a time to assign blame, a political distraction, it is time for both to do their job and get back to the peoples business, not filling their campaign kitties.

JR
 
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

From Patrick O'Brien: “But you know as well as I, patriotism is a word; and one that generally comes to mean either my country, right or wrong, which is infamous, or my country is always right, which is imbecile.” Now all you have to do is substitute political party for country, as our politicians have, and you have the lower cesspits of stupidity. I would like to see a test case, where the American worker sue the political parties. After all, the parties have no official standing in our government, and therefore, should not be able to manipulate the system for gain.
 
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

Yeah, aside from the 800,000 federal employees currently unemployed, and the vast majority of scientific research, NBD.

Sucks for them, I know a few. Plenty of small businesses around here are actually putting up now hiring signs.

Scientific research is a cool one, though. It's not my first thought, but it's true. Many things are monitored, tracked, and analyzed by the government including natural events such as weather and natural disasters. This is a great part of the government. At the same time, companies like Intel run fantastic R&D divisions, and there are new ideas coming out every day, regardless of how they are funded. It's a trade-off, as always.

Before I go off on a rant, I want to clarify what you are saying.
Are you saying, government must not do much, because they shut down and I can't tell the difference?
Or are you saying, it's not a real shut down, because about 80% of the government is still going on?

Kinda sorta both. What I'm saying is that, for the most part, it's not the end of the world. People still live life, people still argue, and babies are still born. Even though it is a big deal, it's blown out of proportion. The government shutting down for a bit doesn't kill everything, and we can survive for quite a while in it's reduced form, hopefully until the damned congress can figure out how to break the idea of REPUBLICANS VS. DEMOCRATS and realize that they are all one big team that has to work towards the same goals for success, regardless of "label" or "affiliation."

I'm also not saying that the government doesn't do much- they do a hell of a lot (personal view: a bit more than they should, but hey- the've got some cool toys!). It's just that not everything relies on the government, and it would be absolutely terrifying if everything did, considering the issues with most governments. People still farm food, shipping deliveries (not mail) still get delivered, computers still crash and get replaced with shiny new models, and we still have several gigs a week that usually make money for everyone (regardless of how little).



I have a theory that the real issue comes down to whether or not people will be happy without the government in certain areas. The sad part is that, regardless of whether or not the government is part of it, people are still people. We all are born uncivilized with nothing, and we all die when our time comes, and there are just as many challenges in between- though granted they are at varying frames of reference. People will still argue, people will still want their way, people will still fight about morality, people will still try and blame people, and people will just be horrifyingly selfish... for the most part.

I know that seems off topic, but here's why it makes a difference: regardless of what happens, someone is going to have a beef with someone. The best case scenario is that the politicians in office get it through their heads that they might as well be viewed as the public decides, do a good job, work with other people, and make a positive impact rather than try and look the best, save the most face, do nothing, and end up hated just as much anyway. They need to do their jobs, and do them well, or they should be fired (better known as not re-elected).


Quick note about healthcare...... GET THE HELL OVER IT! It is one of MANY programs that need to be worked out and refined. I love the idea of healthcare. It's a great idea. The question is whether or not we can make it work. In it's current state, I don't believe it does. But hey- I'm nowhere near an expert. This is all just postulation by someone who hates to hear nothing but negatives on the news. I mean, since when does NOTHING good happen. For example, I leave pennies heads up on the ground if I drop them, as well as any other coin I drop. A friend of mine just got a new job and is quite happy. The SSL live board is impressive. One school is being renovated and looks quite nice. I mean seriously. There's GOT to be something good out there.
 
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

Rob,if the administration doesn't decide what to close and not close,then explain why NPR and PBS are getting funded,but they won't pay death benefits to our service members killed in action? And explain why the Vietnam and WWII Memorials were fenced off yet a rally in favor of amnesty we allowed to proceed on the mall? here's the story: Pro-Amnesty Forces Rally on National Mall
 
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

Rob,if the administration doesn't decide what to close and not close,then explain why NPR and PBS are getting funded,but they won't pay death benefits to our service members killed in action? And explain why the Vietnam and WWII Memorials were fenced off yet a rally in favor of amnesty we allowed to proceed on the mall? here's the story: Pro-Amnesty Forces Rally on National Mall

Don't feed the trolls, oops I mean politicians...

As long as they both think they can win the battle of public opinion this game of chicken will continue.

JR
 
Rob,if the administration doesn't decide what to close and not close,then explain why NPR and PBS are getting funded,but they won't pay death benefits to our service members killed in action? And explain why the Vietnam and WWII Memorials were fenced off yet a rally in favor of amnesty we allowed to proceed on the mall? here's the story: Pro-Amnesty Forces Rally on National Mall

Ok, I will say it again (though, earlier it was president , now it is administration).
What is closed or not is defined in law. That it, the law in effect at the time.
Congress can change the law and likely does every so often. The president gets to sign or veto the law.
The law says what happens when there is no current funding for the government.


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Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

Ok, I will say it again (though, earlier it was president , now it is administration).
What is closed or not is defined in law. That it, the law in effect at the time.
Congress can change the law and likely does every so often. The president gets to sign or veto the law.
The law says what happens when there is no current funding for the government.


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Not to feed this, but yes the executive branch is supposed to enforce all laws completely and equally.

Likewise all federal employees are supposed to not participate in playing politics.

Ignore the words watch their feet....

JR
 
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

Ok, I will say it again (though, earlier it was president , now it is administration).
What is closed or not is defined in law. That it, the law in effect at the time.
Congress can change the law and likely does every so often. The president gets to sign or veto the law.
The law says what happens when there is no current funding for the government.


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Rob,If there is a law on the books,I'd like to see where it says funding for NPR and PBS can continue,but we have to fence off the veteran memorials on the open air mall. I 'd like to see where it says funding for Obamacare can continue,but not for paying death benefits to the families of our service members killed in action. I'd like to see where it says the golf course at Andrews Airforce base, where Obama plays can stay open,but the commisaries are closed. I'd like to see where it says the house and senate gyms can remain open but trails at Valley Forge National Park are closed.
 
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

Rob,If there is a law on the books,I'd like to see where it says funding for NPR and PBS can continue,but we have to fence off the veteran memorials on the open air mall. I 'd like to see where it says funding for Obamacare can continue,but not for paying death benefits to the families of our service members killed in action. I'd like to see where it says the golf course at Andrews Airforce base, where Obama plays can stay open,but the commisaries are closed. I'd like to see where it says the house and senate gyms can remain open but trails at Valley Forge National Park are closed.

Ok, here are links to explanations of the law. It's called the Antideficiency Act and was passed in the 19th century, so I think it's safe to say that Obama had nothing to do with it.

Antideficiency Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Odd Story of the Law That Dictates How Government Shutdowns Work - Andrew Cohen - The Atlantic

It has been amended as recently as 1982, but that was under Republican watch.
If there is a question as to what is essential, it is up to the current attorney general to decide. I have not heard mention of the need for that during this shutdown. Much of the modern day guidelines as to what is essential was decided in 1980.

It is also interesting to note that the law makes it a felony for furloughed workers to work for free during a shutdown.

To the question of PBS, it is a non-profit corporation funded in part by the federal government. The money it was paid had been approved by congress in 2012. To not have paid this bill when it was due would be similar to "defaulting" on any of the government's financial obligations.
 
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

Lets not get lost in the weeds, the debate and negotiation should be occurring in DC, not in the news.

We hired the 3 branches of government to negotiate with each other and do the people's business. We rejected monarchy a few centuries ago so these pukes all need to bend a little and git er dun...

JR