Is anyone's business affected by politics?

Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

I heard a theory yesterday that since the US borrows always in US dollars, we could just print $17 T and pay off the debt whenever we wanted.

I have been scolded for sounding like a politician, so I will try to sound more professorial.

Since I don't see a smiley face I will ASSume you are being serious. The technical term for printing money to pay off our sovereign debt is called "monetizing" the debt, and we already do. Ever since President Nixon took us off the gold standard the US currency has been allowed to float in value relative to real assets like precious metals (gold, silver, etc). At the time President Nixon floated the dollar Gold was selling for roughly $35 per oz. Gold is currently selling for around $1200-1300 oz. This is a more than a 30x change (lower) in the purchasing power of the dollar, but occurring gradually over several decades has not scared the world away from using the dollar as a "reserve" currency, which is trusted to preserve value (at least in the short term) and is acceptable for international business transactions.

Economists and central bankers consider a little inflation (a couple percent) a good thing, actually they consider deflation such a bad thing that they target slight inflation to provide a margin of safety away from deflation. Deflation causes consumers to expect prices to drop in the future so common sense dictates that they will profit from delaying spending until later. This can have a cascading effect through the economy causing economic contraction (recession, depression, unemployment, etc bad things).

The debt/credit bubble that collapsed in 2007 put huge deflationary pressure on all the world economies, that we are still working to deal with. This deflationary stress has given the US fed license to print money without causing huge short term inflation and they have. The US central bankers have targeted inflating the value of real assets (like houses and stocks) to make consumers feel better about the economy and return to previous spending patterns. The fed after dropping interest rates to near zero started playing a shell game with debt where the fed is buying US sovereign debt almost as fast as they can print it to keep the interest on that debt low (this is like us as individuals lending money to ourselves to prove how good of a credit risk we are). Despite all this virtual money printing, they haven't seen the velocity of the money supply speed up, evidence of overheating economic activity and problematic inflation. So they are still pedal to the metal. Bernanke wanted to start unwinding his historic amounts of economic accommodation before his term ended, the market called that "tapering". The fed doesn't call it by name, but when they telegraphed that they would begin tapering soon, the stock market swooned, so they reversed themselves at the last minute. While it might be considered political to criticize replacing Bernanke before he unwinds this huge monetary engineering experiment he has created (changing horses mid stream, yadda yadda). Janet Yellin his replacement is considered to be a more of the same, accommodative to the money supply, at least for now.

So short answer yes we could monetize our huge debt but that would risk the dollar losing it's reserve currency status, which would have huge negative repercussions, as all the dollars hidden in all the mattresses around the world, get sold to convert into whatever becomes the new world reserve currency driving the value of the dollar dramatically lower. It is in the US interest to keep these marginal dollars in the (figurative) mattresses.
=====

Regarding sovereign debt as a percentage of GDP. We enjoy the luxury of far more borrowing power than most countries (while we shouldn't risk this). Japan sovereign debt is closer to 200% of their GDP and haven't collapsed (yet), while they have been fighting off a persistent deflation that started in the '90s. Closer to home Puerto Rice has recently been noted for it's growing debt problems. At 85% of GDP the debt is not high by international standards but they are a US territory so they can't print money or even declare bankruptcy (like Detroit did). You will hearing more about them in the coming months.

JR
 
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

Sure we can. I've known a few people that got so far in debt that they just said "ef it" and maxed out all of their cards and declared bankruptcy. I forget what year we are predicted to reach the point where our interest payments will exceed the GDP but we sure on the course towards that. Then how do the Demicans and Republocrats continue to kick the can down the road?

Fortunately or unfortunately depending on your political perspective, we are not close to bumping into the debt market (bond vigilantes) refusing to lend to us at low rates just yet. We are not close to the way the southern European countries saw their sovereign debt rates increase to unsupportable levels. For round numbers imagine if sovereign debt is equal to 100% of GDP. For every percentage point of interest charged on the debt a percentage point of the GDP must be diverted to pay for servicing that debt. When interest rates increase to tens of percent, it can shut down a countries government largess.

Most of our US sovereign credit rating deterioration is self inflicted due to political infighting around the last debt ceiling upgrade (and I suspect failure to pass a federal budget in years). Words have consequences even when coming from politicians.

We need to tread lightly around this debt ceiling increase. The shut down is already wasting large amounts of taxpayer dollars, in the costs to restart even the fraction of non-essential workers furloughed. If we make such a scene that out debt rating takes another hit, that will cost us real tax dollars to service the debt.

I am sympathetic to the cut spending vs increase taxes debate (guess which I favor?), but I don't think we should shoot ourselves in the face to make a point. In the name of reducing spending, they are increasing spending. Of course they are thinking long term vs short term, but i still expect only a small deal (short term extension), so we will return to this fight again after a brief rest.

I am weary of the political theater. This is Sunday and my TV set remains turned off since i can stomach listening to the typical opposing political spinners trying to foment public anger against each other. We all lose at this game.

JR
 
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

I think this article by Thomas Sowell may explain a few things relavent to this discussion:

Thomas Sowell: Who Shut Down the Government?

TS is a thoughtful observer of the political process and even if correct, does anybody expect the president to acquiesce to defunding his namesake legislation without a fight? While not literally named after him (actually named ACA), Obama-care is how it will be perceived by historians and is his legacy to preserve.

I will avoid arguing political strategy, even if legal I don't consider "no compromise" by both sides a constructive path for our country. i don't think it matters which ass we pin this shut down tail on, they are both complicit and IMO both responsible.

My apologies to the PC police if this sounds like a politician talking. I am trying to sound like an angry citizen. :-(

JR
 
Lol what I find funny is the people yelling about no compromise. The republicans want compromise against an already declared law... Um I'm not a lawyer but when a law is ratified it can only be ammended after its put in place....
 
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

Lol what I find funny is the people yelling about no compromise. The republicans want compromise against an already declared law... Um I'm not a lawyer but when a law is ratified it can only be ammended after its put in place....

I wanted a Canadian/French/British styled plan that covered basic wellness care and catastrophic accidents/diseases. Private insurance could be available for elective and cosmetic procedures. Such a scheme, however, does not make robber-barons of insurance companies, for-profit hospitals and clinics, and per-service providers.
 
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

Lol what I find funny is the people yelling about no compromise. The republicans want compromise against an already declared law... Um I'm not a lawyer but when a law is ratified it can only be ammended after its put in place....

Even amendments to the constitution can be repealed (think prohibition). If you read the Sowell explanation he is pretty clear at laying out the different branches enumerated powers.

Since the house controls the purse strings they can defund legislation, effectively leaving it a zombie (dead but still around). This is clearly not a responsible or productive approach. (I personally favor some kind of bi-partisan reform amended into ACA but I am feeling pretty lonely about that viewpoint).

It is worth noting that congress rarely funds 100% of all the legislation it passes. So many past bills that were applauded by the public when passed as being worth doing were mostly window dressing for show and didn't really get done because of inadequate funding. Pass a law to build a border fence but don't fund it, guess what happens? No fence. Pass an immigration bill but don't fund enforcement of it and what do you get, ten million plus illegal immigrants. It was already against the law for them to come here without permission, but with no enforcement they just keep doing what they were doing.

This is actually part of the normal ebb and flow of governance, another side of the ugly sausage making we prefer to ignore.

This current very public, very contentious fight going on is not really helping anybody but both sides must think they will win something from this, or it would be over long ago. I boycotted watching the sunday opinion shows, but the overnight polls in response to their competitive spin session may influence how the principals act on Monday.

JR

PS: A key element of governance is the consent of those governed. This means that a simple majority can not make the minority do stuff they really don't want to do. Very simply the minority could withdraw and effectively refuse to be part of the nation. While the majority can use force to make a minority behave this no longer resembles our republic where the government serves us, all of us, at our pleasure. This skirmish will pass and I do not think the republic is at risk of fracture over this, but we are still a young nation so figuring things out as we go.
 
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

Lol what I find funny is the people yelling about no compromise. The republicans want compromise against an already declared law... Um I'm not a lawyer but when a law is ratified it can only be ammended after its put in place....

Jordan, did you read Thomas Sowell's piece? It explains the role of the house very well. Our founders created devided government for a reason.
 
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

The Sowell piece says:

"Perhaps the biggest of the big lies is that the government will not be able to pay what it owes on the national debt, creating a danger of default. Tax money keeps coming into the Treasury during the shutdown, and it vastly exceeds the interest that has to be paid on the national debt."

What he misses is that what will keep the government from paying its bond holders is not a lack of funds, but an infrastructure that allows the government to choose which payments are made and which aren't.

Treasury Secretary Jack Lew says that the Treasury’s electronic payment systems were “not designed to be turned off selectively. So anyone who thinks that it can be done just doesn't know the architecture of our multiple payment systems that are very complex. They were designed properly to pay our bills, they were not designed to not pay our bills.”

Sowell also says "None of this is rocket science". I think that may be the most telling thing he says in the article. While again factually correct, it is misleading. The financial system is really really complicated, and for politicians to compare it to how we balance our budgets at home, or say that because it doesn't make sense to the average citizen it must be wrong, is irresponsible and maybe even dangerous.

If anyone wants a good read about things that "make sense" being wrong when you look at the numbers, give this Malcolm Gladwell story a try...

http://gladwell.com/million-dollar-murray/

Somehow this debate reminds me of the frequent thread topics that start something like "$2000 for new mains, what should I get?". It always confuses me why they put the dollar amount first. That's not how successful audio companies that I know run. First you look at what you need, then see what it will cost to get there, then figure out how to fund that purchase.
 
Last edited:
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

First you look at what you need, then see what it will cost to get there, then figure out how to fund that purchase.
Unfortunately the government's answer to that last step is to just go deeper in debt. Sometimes you have to buy the JBL's and not the DB tech cabs if the latter won't significantly increase your income. Them awesome cabs won't do you any good if you go bankrupt. There are folks that believe that the debt can grow forever and those of us that believe it has to stop. You can only have one or the other, there is no middle ground - hence our present stalemate :(~:-(~:sad:.
 
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

I find it hard to accept that we can't apply common sense to government, but if I pursue this I will get lost in the weeds myself.

This situation reminds me of a married couple having a contentious fight and the angry wife (or husband) is holding a loaded gun and pointing it at the spouse. The loaded gun is this debt ceiling (0ct 17), that no rational legislator would ever default on. But waving that loaded gun around does make a powerful impression (the media loves it). Problem is it scares the children and worse yet it could actually go off. :-(

Here's hoping the attention drunk fools don't let the gun go off...They are already doing damage to the republic by waving the loaded gun around.

JR

PS: Politicians use words differently than us. They use words for effect, not meaning. This confuses debt rating agencies that think people actually mean what they say when they speak. I suspect our credit rating is already being injured just by politicians threatening default.
 
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

If anyone wants a good read about things that "make sense" being wrong when you look at the numbers, give this Malcolm Gladwell story a try...

Million-Dollar Murray

Somehow this debate reminds me of the frequent thread topics that start something like "$2000 for new mains, what should I get?". It always confuses me why they put the dollar amount first. That's not how successful audio companies that I know run. First you look at what you need, then see what it will cost to get there, then figure out how to fund that purchase.

I ran out of attention span perhaps 1/2 way through the million dollar murray piece, but they (he) make an interesting observation about false economy. It is not just how much money you spend but how you spend it. I have little faith in central planning, but even less faith in just throwing money at a problem and expecting it to magically improve. Unfortunately the spending hammer is the primary tool in the legislators tool kit, so most problems look like nails to them. Lots of nails, while they have been known to screw stuff too.. :-)

JR
 
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

The loaded gun is this debt ceiling (0ct 17), that no rational legislator would ever default on.
You meant to say "the bills" or maybe "the debt", not the "debt ceiling"? IMO the uncontrolled spending is the "loaded gun" being pointed at those who want a balanced budget and at this point I'm against caving it to the "pork barrel terrorists" waving it around. Either give up some pork or go ahead and shoot and we all suffer. The spend crazy terrorists are lucky that we're willing to negotiate with them at all :razz:.
 
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

The whole point is that ALL those clowns that work in Washington D. C. need to get past the concept of party lines, party affiliations, and lobbyists and start doing what we hired them to do: ..... and sit down to get some work done.

I subscribe to Tim McCulloch's line of thought. That most of Washington has been doing it's job, and that this small minority, (manufactured through gerrymandering, and even built/manufactured by very wealthy outsiders) that to my mind does not even represent the overall Republican party, can not get their way via the regular process (precisely because they are in the minority), so they are holding the rest of process, and by extension the whole country hostage. Bohener is in a tough spot on this, and I like Obama's current position. Bring it to a vote. And let us, the American people, see exactly who is holding us hostage. Because as bad as the Tea Party looks now (Mike Lee's stock is dropping fast in Utah), it would be even worse for the conservatives politically to have to show it on an up or down vote right now.

... distract us from the real issues (Tax more or spend less?).
JR

To my mind the money has already been spent. The question now is how to pay for it.
The spending was done in the form of two unfunded wars, and more so, that the interest in that decade was higher then than now.

There is also a fair amount of money being paid for the bailout. A lot of that has been repaid from the other end.
This is one of the few things that I do think Bush got right. And went out on a positive note, in a very negative time. As a sitting duck, it looked at first like he would just pass, and let the new guy take it.
But I give him credit for realizing the severity of the situation, and getting going on it.

Americans like their free sh__ even when they are ultimately paying for it. At some point the books need to balance on spending this large.

Here is how I look at this. The money is already being spent to the tune of almost 20% of our GDP. ACA is not free. But, it is better than what we had.
Yes you and I are paying for others health insurance. But we already were paying for their health care, via more expensive ER methods.
If everyone has access to regular visits, and thus more counseling and information about their health, instead of just ER visits when things have gotten to a critical stage, we as a society will save money, and that will translate to us as individuals. My health insurance via my wife has come down in cost this year for the first time in over 30 years.

Also, Social Security tends to get thrown in the "free Sh_t" pile, but it is self contained, and nothing free. Pay in. Save. Withdraw upon retirement.
Medicade and medicare are two programs that I consider good , but more prone to corruption.

Two programs that I do have a big problem with are disability, and the farm bill.
That to me is free sh that is running put of control.
I know some of you despise the Tea Party. But they are the only group in Washington that wants to seriously reduce the debt.

Or at least that is the face that they put forward. To me, the Tea Party constituency has been completely duped by their leaders, and those that founded the party.

This was brought to my attention about seven years ago, before the Tea Party began.
My leaving the Republican party started long ago, and I had never been able to put my finger on exactly what triggered it.
I know lots of the little things, but what was the big thing.

I heard a professor from BYU on the radio (KBYU) go on a rant. And he laid out a lot of things that had disquieted me.
Such as, when he was growing up, conservative meant conserving the environment. And then he lowered the boom on neo-cons. He was mad.
He did not like that his party had grown away from everything it used to stand for, and what was dear to him. He went on with many more examples.
And that it is now run and co-opted by those who's sole goal is money. Profit.

And that was it. He said, "Republicans are no longer conservative. We are the party of Wall Street, and nothing about us is conservative."
I thought, there I go, I am no longer a Republican, because the Republican party is no longer conservative.

As an example, I give you military spending. Every budget to come out of the Tea Party (Paul/Ryan) has increased spending for the military.
There is no bigger blow job to big business than military spending. Yes the military employees lots of people. But think of all the money that Halliburton pulled in from the wars.
And that was just a decade of gravy. The whole military spending has been out of control for decades now.

And in an ironic twist, or just to bring this point full circle. There is one person who has been able to curb the military spending.
The president was able to pull off the sequestration, and cut military spending by 10%. And between that and the automatic roll back on Bush era tax cuts, we are now the closest we have been to a balanced budget in over 10 years.

Yes, the most conservative person in Washington is Barack Obama.

Try that on for size. Chew it around in your head a bit. Don't knee jerk reaction. Mull it over while you are driving to the gig.
 
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

As to the ACA. I am surprised that more people in our industry are not if favor of it.

Our industry, live sound, is almost exclusively independent, small business'.
Not only that, but for those of us working in music, and independent music, so are those we provide sound for.
Now we are finally able to get health care at a reasonable rate. And so will those we are working for.
This makes it more financially attractive to be in this business, and not have to work for a larger corporation, who did have the advantage of size and purchasing power in this arena.
 
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

Completely off topic: I came here to check on a particular console model mentioned in a post a week or so ago, and I ended up reading this. Politics is evil incarnate.
 
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

Also to the ACA and the shutdown.
Obama is getting off so easy. The web site has been a mess, and implementation has been much harder than anticipated.

But, because the Tea Party shut down the government on the exact same day as the ACA went live, ostensibly to protest the same,
it has diverted almost all the negative energy towards themselves. Had they not shut it down, and stood by and watched the ACA flounder for a bit, they would have been able to say, "see".
Instead the bugs are being worked out, and again, a lot of negative thoughts towards the ACA not going smoothly are wrongly pinned on government shut down.
 
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

To the importing of X-32's. The borders are still open, and staffed by BPC.
BUT, the EPA is not open. So any cargo ships that have chemicals on them are not allowed to unload, because they need to be inspected or cleared or something by EPA.
So ships are starting to pile up in harbors, to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars/day/ship.
 
Re: Is anyone's business affected by politics?

I stand by my decision to not wade into the weeds.

You represent your side of the aisle's viewpoint accurately. My ignoring them does not mean I concede or agree. I do not see it as critical path to any resolution. If I have too much time on my hands later I may give you a point by point response, but off-list to not feed the political strategy of distracting us.
====
This discussion is getting confused by the conflating of the debt ceiling increase, with CR/budget impasse. While this was weeks away when the shut down happened, now it is days, hours away (oct 17).

While they are linked in that deficit spending increases debt, so does debt service even with flat spending. Not increasing the debt ceiling is not really an option (firing the loaded gun), but a convenient opportunity every time this comes around for the minority party to throw stones at the party in power who has little choice but to increase the debt ceiling. It is easy to find examples of democrat leaders arguing against raising past debt ceilings, when they were not in power (so they could argue against it without any real risk of actually causing a default).

Is this time different? I sure hope not wrt the debt ceiling. But allow me to remind everybody that the sequester was considered too onerous for both sides to ever let it go into effect and guess what? We need to reduce the temperature in washington before they do something really stupid.

Budget, what budget... CR?

JR