I am coming up on a busy two months where I'll be doing small festival after small festival. Many of these festivals will have very short change overs and about 20+ bands in the day. The last few years, in doing those change overs, my drum snake gets messy and tangled very quickly. I wonder if any of you guys have any hints/tips/words of encouragement/or insults to send my way in order to help me keep that area of the stage clean and neat.
keeping stages clean
- Thread starter LiamSmith
- Start date
Re: keeping stages clean
Don't let the bands move the mics or stands.
Cable from the upstage side of the kit, splitting left/right... this allows you to pull drum mics to the sides/upstage for rolling risers or simply getting work room for the stagehands/musicians. Use individual cables, not a loom. If your tom mics are "clip on" types, have a way of getting them & their cables out of the way and off the deck at set change. LABEL EVERY CABLE with source, sub-snake channel and main snake channel. We color code our sub snakes, so a label might read "SNT Y3/3". Snare top, yellow sub-snake input 3, main snake channel 3. "BSM B1/13" would be Bass Mic, blue sub-snake input 1, main snake input 13.
It is always good to have a helper on stage. If you have a lavalier wireless system, put the mic on the helper. You can PFL the channel in cans to hear him and speak back to him with your VOG mic in the monitors. Better than a walkie talkie because it's hands-free for the stage tech.
And frankly, if anyone who witnesses the mayhem of 20 bands a day has the balls to complain about your drum snake, invite them to babysit it and keep it neat & tidy all day.
Don't let the bands move the mics or stands.
Cable from the upstage side of the kit, splitting left/right... this allows you to pull drum mics to the sides/upstage for rolling risers or simply getting work room for the stagehands/musicians. Use individual cables, not a loom. If your tom mics are "clip on" types, have a way of getting them & their cables out of the way and off the deck at set change. LABEL EVERY CABLE with source, sub-snake channel and main snake channel. We color code our sub snakes, so a label might read "SNT Y3/3". Snare top, yellow sub-snake input 3, main snake channel 3. "BSM B1/13" would be Bass Mic, blue sub-snake input 1, main snake input 13.
It is always good to have a helper on stage. If you have a lavalier wireless system, put the mic on the helper. You can PFL the channel in cans to hear him and speak back to him with your VOG mic in the monitors. Better than a walkie talkie because it's hands-free for the stage tech.
And frankly, if anyone who witnesses the mayhem of 20 bands a day has the balls to complain about your drum snake, invite them to babysit it and keep it neat & tidy all day.
Re: keeping stages clean
Like Tim says use sub snakes, label everything (snake, sub snakes, cables) and leave plenty of time for setup to do a neat and orderly job.Come up with a generic festival style input list that will meet the demands of most if not all your bands. Mine usually will be something like this:
drums- 6,7,8 channels?
Bass- 2 or 3 inputs (usually at least a bass di on either side of the stage)
Guitars - 4 channels
Direct boxes - 4 channels
Horns or Percussion - 4 channels
Vocals - 5 channels
Use plenty of sub snakes to keep mic cables short and neat. I use 10ft and 12ft for most instruments and 25 or 30ft for vocals. I have plenty of spares to quickly extend a line if needed.
If you can eliminate unused stands and cables from the stage during each changeover it streamlines setup and eliminates searching for cables not used for the last band, makes it easier to find signal on your currently used channels (because the unused channels will have no signal), and helps when troubleshooting bad cables, mics etc. I keep all the unused stands just off stage with a mic and cable hanging from it.
I've done many of these type festivals and I've done a good many by myself being the only foh/monitor/stage guy. When your organized and prepared the stage will run on time and smoothly without a hitch
Like Tim says use sub snakes, label everything (snake, sub snakes, cables) and leave plenty of time for setup to do a neat and orderly job.Come up with a generic festival style input list that will meet the demands of most if not all your bands. Mine usually will be something like this:
drums- 6,7,8 channels?
Bass- 2 or 3 inputs (usually at least a bass di on either side of the stage)
Guitars - 4 channels
Direct boxes - 4 channels
Horns or Percussion - 4 channels
Vocals - 5 channels
Use plenty of sub snakes to keep mic cables short and neat. I use 10ft and 12ft for most instruments and 25 or 30ft for vocals. I have plenty of spares to quickly extend a line if needed.
If you can eliminate unused stands and cables from the stage during each changeover it streamlines setup and eliminates searching for cables not used for the last band, makes it easier to find signal on your currently used channels (because the unused channels will have no signal), and helps when troubleshooting bad cables, mics etc. I keep all the unused stands just off stage with a mic and cable hanging from it.
I've done many of these type festivals and I've done a good many by myself being the only foh/monitor/stage guy. When your organized and prepared the stage will run on time and smoothly without a hitch
Re: keeping stages clean
I process this setup with a DBX DDP so that the cymals get the frequency sensitive compression. Helps balance things out and let the snare and toms have more of a chance......
I process this setup with a DBX DDP so that the cymals get the frequency sensitive compression. Helps balance things out and let the snare and toms have more of a chance......
Re: keeping stages clean
Liam,
I'm not sure what you mean by small... I'll just think about all the time's I've been the patch guy on a festival stage. Mostly mentioned, but here's my thoughts.
edit: One more thing, if you have a digital console on mons, leave a preset with just the basics to go back to after each act. Or on an analog console, go back to it each time around. Also, know that whatever a band can do to cause feedback in the monitors, they will do.
Liam,
I'm not sure what you mean by small... I'll just think about all the time's I've been the patch guy on a festival stage. Mostly mentioned, but here's my thoughts.
- Label subsnakes. (Plan ahead and do this at the shop)
- Label both ends of each cable.
- Use the shortest cables possible for drums. Not much will change band-to-band. (10 ft.)
- Recoil cables that get messed up during changeovers, you'll find yourself doing this a lot, but it's worth the extra effort.
- Have stands built in case your drum mic clips don't fit the drums. Keep at least 4 extra booms built for your potential horn section.
- Leave extra inputs in each subsnake.
- Leave extra inputs on the console.
To fit in 32ch, something like...
- 1-12 Drums (Leave a stereo DI here too)
- 13-14 Bass
- 15-18 Gtr
- 19-22 DIs (Leave these on the front of the stage with plenty of cable length to pull them back. Leave something dedicated for your DJs)
- 23-26 Other Instruments
- 27-32 Vox - Keep it simple. Leave channels for drums if needed, but don't go double micing things that don't really need to be. It's just more to deal with.
- Lots of subsnakes clean everything up. DSC, USL, USR, Drum.
- Have someone dedicated to deal with patch if possible. The more different people dealing with it, the messier it will be.
- Hope you have a stage manager who advanced with every band.
- When a mic isn't being used, pull it to mon world, or at least pull the cable out so it doesn't look like there's something there out on the meters out front.
- Grab a square card reader and sell the bands basic recordings for $50 each if the promotor will allow it. Figuring half buy them, it makes the whole show worth your trouble
- Have the crew build drum kits off stage ahead of time.
- If it's a large enough stage, room, have a second set of mics and another drop on a second wheeled riser. Just swap the two at changeovers. Same goes for guitar rigs, DJ rigs.
edit: One more thing, if you have a digital console on mons, leave a preset with just the basics to go back to after each act. Or on an analog console, go back to it each time around. Also, know that whatever a band can do to cause feedback in the monitors, they will do.
Re: keeping stages clean
A backline house kit should be MANDATORY for any stage with that many bands per day (except for maybe the "headliner"). In my dreams right?
On bigger stages I have had a lot of good experiences with 2 drum platforms (rolling if you can swing it....), 2 sets of mics, and 2 separate sub snakes.
Having an extra hand on deck who can just manage the drum micing/drum snake is a nice way to do it as well.
A backline house kit should be MANDATORY for any stage with that many bands per day (except for maybe the "headliner"). In my dreams right?
On bigger stages I have had a lot of good experiences with 2 drum platforms (rolling if you can swing it....), 2 sets of mics, and 2 separate sub snakes.
Having an extra hand on deck who can just manage the drum micing/drum snake is a nice way to do it as well.
Re: keeping stages clean
Hah, when I say "little," I mean really little. There'll be, maybe 500-800 people... But the music will be rarely a rock show for more than 50 to 100 people at any give time. The rest of the draw is vendors, camping, and other things. My system is little, but bigger than almost anyone else's in the area. We're talking a budget of maybe a couple thousand dollars for the whole festival. So, yea... small.
I'll be alone for much of the day. So, it'll be me patching and repatching in between each act. The only one complaining about a mussy drum snake is me, too. I just want to always improve and make things neater, nicer, and better. I've got a few different snakes. So, there'll be two sub snakes per stage for the two stages I'll be covering.
As many headaches it would cure for the day to have a house kit I don't want to subject my own personal drum kit to a full day of hard hitters.
I will however, be labeling everything now. I don't know why I never got around to actually doing that before shows... its brilliant.
David, if I was smart I'd hook up a zoom or something and sell those recordings... But, the day is going to be hectic enough for me... One more thing to worry about will probably tip me over.
Also, as for not letting bands move stuff... I did that last year and boy was I sorry. One band took to the second stage and simply stated that they didn't like that stage and moved themselves to the other stage. I said they could it if they promised to not patch any of their stuff in without me standing right there. They said "Ok" and proceeded to do exactly what I told them not to. I got them going and did the most unprofessional thing I've ever done. Walked away from the board. Came back a half hour later and they had gone over on their time. Promoter told me to pull them mid-song... I did... and that felt good.
Hah, when I say "little," I mean really little. There'll be, maybe 500-800 people... But the music will be rarely a rock show for more than 50 to 100 people at any give time. The rest of the draw is vendors, camping, and other things. My system is little, but bigger than almost anyone else's in the area. We're talking a budget of maybe a couple thousand dollars for the whole festival. So, yea... small.
I'll be alone for much of the day. So, it'll be me patching and repatching in between each act. The only one complaining about a mussy drum snake is me, too. I just want to always improve and make things neater, nicer, and better. I've got a few different snakes. So, there'll be two sub snakes per stage for the two stages I'll be covering.
As many headaches it would cure for the day to have a house kit I don't want to subject my own personal drum kit to a full day of hard hitters.
I will however, be labeling everything now. I don't know why I never got around to actually doing that before shows... its brilliant.
David, if I was smart I'd hook up a zoom or something and sell those recordings... But, the day is going to be hectic enough for me... One more thing to worry about will probably tip me over.
Also, as for not letting bands move stuff... I did that last year and boy was I sorry. One band took to the second stage and simply stated that they didn't like that stage and moved themselves to the other stage. I said they could it if they promised to not patch any of their stuff in without me standing right there. They said "Ok" and proceeded to do exactly what I told them not to. I got them going and did the most unprofessional thing I've ever done. Walked away from the board. Came back a half hour later and they had gone over on their time. Promoter told me to pull them mid-song... I did... and that felt good.
Perhaps find a kid who would like to get up close to the music to help out?
Have him hawk the recording after the next band gets going and the recorder is on? Split the take with him as his pay?
Sent from my iPad HD
Have him hawk the recording after the next band gets going and the recorder is on? Split the take with him as his pay?
Sent from my iPad HD
Re: keeping stages clean
Whirlwind Drumdrop
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Whirlwind-D...776?pt=US_Other_Pro_Audio&hash=item1e77781ec0
Whirlwind Drumdrop
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Whirlwind-D...776?pt=US_Other_Pro_Audio&hash=item1e77781ec0
Re: keeping stages clean
Speaking of keeping stages clean. Smaller-scale festival, but still a good example of what not to do.
Speaking of keeping stages clean. Smaller-scale festival, but still a good example of what not to do.
Re: keeping stages clean
I started out like the photo above, and I got to thinking about when i played I always liked a clean stage , so what i done is I shortened all the Drum cables to 12 feet instead of 30 feet cables. and ran a snake in the front and in the back , The one up front of stage is for the vocals and the snake in the back is for the Backline and front snake. what i do is take the front snake and run it to the side of the stage to the back snake and then run the back snake to the board around the stage. It keeps the things in front , in front and then the Ins. cables for the back line is at the back snake, right next to the drums. so no mess in the middle of the stage where people can trip over or step on the cables.
I started out like the photo above, and I got to thinking about when i played I always liked a clean stage , so what i done is I shortened all the Drum cables to 12 feet instead of 30 feet cables. and ran a snake in the front and in the back , The one up front of stage is for the vocals and the snake in the back is for the Backline and front snake. what i do is take the front snake and run it to the side of the stage to the back snake and then run the back snake to the board around the stage. It keeps the things in front , in front and then the Ins. cables for the back line is at the back snake, right next to the drums. so no mess in the middle of the stage where people can trip over or step on the cables.
Re: keeping stages clean
Poor example of probably getting there 30 mins to a hour ahead of the time you supposed to start playing. :roll::thumbdown::uhoh:
Poor example of probably getting there 30 mins to a hour ahead of the time you supposed to start playing. :roll::thumbdown::uhoh:
Re: keeping stages clean
I always like a clean stage. I have a 30' 8CH
drop snake, and 2 50' 8ch drop snake. They help to clean things up. Plus, like you said, a house kit for everyone but the headliners. Last time the headliners used the house kit as well. Each drummer brings their own cymbals, snare, kick pedal and throne. Saves a lot of time between acts. 4 mics across the front, plus 2 wireless mics as well.
I always like a clean stage. I have a 30' 8CH
drop snake, and 2 50' 8ch drop snake. They help to clean things up. Plus, like you said, a house kit for everyone but the headliners. Last time the headliners used the house kit as well. Each drummer brings their own cymbals, snare, kick pedal and throne. Saves a lot of time between acts. 4 mics across the front, plus 2 wireless mics as well.