lighten up some subs

Re: lighten up some subs

I really can't, tim. I duly do defer to you. I am probably doing something wrong and I will try to figure that out and rectify it. I really don't know what else could be it. My best guess was that it somehow got knocked around in transport... but that's unlikely since the pack was very tight. I thought, maybe it could be the ambient heat, too.

It was in my van overnight and into the morning. It was well over 100 out in the open during that day and well more than that in the van. Could that, maybe, have loosened some adhesives? I didn't think that as a possibility considering that dissipating heat is its job.
 
Re: lighten up some subs

Maybe I missed the answer to this but was the speaker out of warranty? If it was the surgery wasn't a good idea.

...And for an over-excursion type failure don't forget a sudden POP can cause that. Such as turning on FOH mixer and processing AFTER amps are on. Possibly a power failure scenario. A quick on/off/on.... ?
 
Re: lighten up some subs

LiamSmith said:
I really can't, tim. I duly do defer to you. I am probably doing something wrong and I will try to figure that out and rectify it. I really don't know what else could be it. My best guess was that it somehow got knocked around in transport... but that's unlikely since the pack was very tight. I thought, maybe it could be the ambient heat, too.

It was in my van overnight and into the morning. It was well over 100 out in the open during that day and well more than that in the van. Could that, maybe, have loosened some adhesives? I didn't think that as a possibility considering that dissipating heat is its job.
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Liam,
I don't think your doing anything wrong, you get what you pay for. Like I told you before I'm not fond of eminence, theres a lot better quality manufactures out there, for a few more bucks.
The ambient heat didn't loosen the adhesives, dropping it didn't cause it, poor quality caused it.
 
Re: lighten up some subs

Without a professional inspection it's kind of silly to blame the manufacturer at this point. Also if this were a manufacturing defect there would likely be an entire batch or model line that was failing. So far we've no indication of that.

The reason I've been particularly adamant about this failure is that I've had other speakers do it, too, including venerated (but now gone) brands like Gauss and TAD. In every case the cone separated from the VC former because of extreme over-excursion; and in the case of one Gauss failure that was due to obstructed ports that radically changed the cabinet tuning.
 
Re: lighten up some subs

Adam, I don't believe this would fall under warranty repair. I bought these used from a forum member who had them for years. So, I don't think it would fall under yorkville's extensive warranty.

Alan, I am still only learning. It is very likely I'm doing something wrong. I am powering these things with a bridged xti2000 each. I have the (not so robust) limiter set to -3db. That's 1600watts each. I've read through the whole discussion on matt's ucs1 failure. That may be too much, but I've never driven them too hard as I've never needed to. I do small shows - 100-200 people or less usually.
 
Re: lighten up some subs

What strikes me is some people say the original 15 is designed for a horn loaded box, specificly. Yet this is what eminence says about the lab 15, according to Liam eminence told him the lab 15 is just about identiacl. This is what eminence says about the lab 15.

LAB15 Professional Series
Subwoofer suited for small vented boxes and for Horn Loading


Thats a pretty wide range of design there, is that not?.
 
Re: lighten up some subs

Alan Sledzieski said:
What strikes me is some people say the original 15 is designed for a horn loaded box, specificly. Yet this is what eminence says about the lab 15, according to Liam eminence told him the lab 15 is just about identiacl. This is what eminence says about the lab 15.

LAB15 Professional Series
Subwoofer suited for small vented boxes and for Horn Loading


Thats a pretty wide range of design there, is that not?.
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Look at the lab 12. There are a number of designs (Art Welter has done a good bit with them) out there that use them in a front loaded configuration. In fact my new office-ipod speakers will have a pair of them for each channel-in vintage Kustom red cabinets.

But the driver was origionally designed to be in a horn loaded configuration (LAB SUB).

Danley Sound Labs use a different version of the Lab 12 in a couiple of the tapped horn cabinets. Our version has a larger voice coil and different vent cooling-among other differences-although the basic construction/look is the same.

So yes-some drivers can be used in a variety of cabinets-and used well-assuming the design of the cabinet is doen right (and the loudspeaker cooporates)
 
Re: lighten up some subs

Ivan Beaver said:
Look at the lab 12. There are a number of designs (Art Welter has done a good bit with them) out there that use them in a front loaded configuration. In fact my new office-ipod speakers will have a pair of them for each channel-in vintage Kustom red cabinets.

But the driver was origionally designed to be in a horn loaded configuration (LAB SUB).

Danley Sound Labs use a different version of the Lab 12 in a couiple of the tapped horn cabinets. Our version has a larger voice coil and different vent cooling-among other differences-although the basic construction/look is the same.

So yes-some drivers can be used in a variety of cabinets-and used well-assuming the design of the cabinet is doen right (and the loudspeaker cooporates)
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And the sensitivity of the LAB12 driver in the LAB subwoofer is at least 10dB higher than the LAB12 driver used in a ported box.
 
Re: lighten up some subs

Another question, The uci1 says its 102 db eff. along with a peak of 137, and 133 cont. But they don't post a graph of at what frequency, any one know this or have a link?
 
Re: lighten up some subs

Alan,

Kindly explain the professional expertise that qualifies you to speak poorly of the good folks at Eminence. This is not a bar, we do not just yell whatever we like without justification. To libel an entire manufacturer based on limited personal experience is unwise.
 
Re: lighten up some subs

Bennett Prescott said:
Alan,

Kindly explain the professional expertise that qualifies you to speak poorly of the good folks at Eminence. This is not a bar, we do not just yell whatever we like without justification. To libel an entire manufacturer based on limited personal experience is unwise.
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I just typed in lab 15 failures on the web and did a search, found the topic that I posted on the voice coil coming apart.

I know some people with eminence that the dust cover fell off of in a month, Eminece recomended the omega for a replacement for a box, and the wopping 4.8 mm of x max failed quickly when running full range, I know a lot of people that use eminence because they are priced low, and they sound just like that, low quality.

This is the junior varsity forum, not the varsity, so I post what I have found and have heard with my,, lets say, weekend warrior ears, and have no Idea what most are talking about on the varsity forum, so I don't go there.

It seems if you have nothing good to say you can't say anything at all, because all displeasure's are not wanted here on this site, same with the pro sound web?

Sorry Bennett, but I post what I have heard with my ears.

Plus I got a pm from someone stating how the uci box in this topic is not as flat as what Yorkville says, so again, it seems like your targeted if you have something bad to say about a product, same thing goes for the pro sound web, if you disagree with the majority of the pros you are singled out.

Just remember, there are some weekend warriors on here wanting to learn as much as we can, we don't all do this for a living. I have learned a lot here, and just try to help where I can.

FWIW, I love the me 90's in my new box I built, with 2 faital hp 1020's, glad you helped me out with some info on the horns. Makes me glad I sold the over ratted la325's!!!!
 
Re: lighten up some subs

I just did my first show with the lab15 in one sub and the yorkville driver in the other. The two are almost indistiguishable. I can tell a difference but only in the lower extension... 60hz and below. The lab15 sounds a bit smoother to me. It could just be that the yorkville driver's just very old.

One caveat that I found early on... the lab15's poles must have been marked incorrectly. Or I reversed the leads. One of the subs poles was inverted. Quick fix was to just pop a polarity inverter on one of the amps.

I will probably switch out the other yorkville driver for my other lab15 this week.
 
Re: lighten up some subs

LiamSmith said:
I just did my first show with the lab15 in one sub and the yorkville driver in the other. The two are almost indistiguishable. I can tell a difference but only in the lower extension... 60hz and below. The lab15 sounds a bit smoother to me. It could just be that the yorkville driver's just very old.

One caveat that I found early on... the lab15's poles must have been marked incorrectly. Or I reversed the leads. One of the subs poles was inverted. Quick fix was to just pop a polarity inverter on one of the amps.

I will probably switch out the other yorkville driver for my other lab15 this week.
Click to expand...

Glad it worked out for Liam, and imagine that, a driver that was not the original sounds better.

keep us updated on any other outcomes.
 
Re: lighten up some subs

Alan Sledzieski said:
I just typed in lab 15 failures on the web and did a search, found the topic that I posted on the voice coil coming apart.

I know some people with eminence that the dust cover fell off of in a month, Eminece recomended the omega for a replacement for a box, and the wopping 4.8 mm of x max failed quickly when running full range, I know a lot of people that use eminence because they are priced low, and they sound just like that, low quality.
Click to expand...

A couple of comment based on REAL experience-decades of it.

I was a reconer for a couple of decades-so I have seen ALL KINDS of failures. I have seen all the major players (during the time I was doing it) have various types of "falling apart"-coils coming seperated-lead in wires break-surrounds tear-dust caps coming off-cones tearing and so forth. So it happends to the big boys also. It is a loudspeaker-which is mechanical in nature-and they fail. Simple as that.


When you say "run full range"-exactly what does that mean? If that meant you ran it without a proper highpass-then yes-it is pretty easy (especially with todays larger amplifiers) to make the driver overexcursion and destroy itself. EVERY LOUDSPEAKER should have a PROPERLY SET highpass! And a low pass on everyspeaker (including horns) is not a bad idea either.

Just something to consider-and this is the same issue that has plagued Peavey for years. There are all sorts of cases out there of people saying that Peavey systems sound bad-Eminance driver fail easily and so forth. BUT-LET'S CONSIDER the typical USER of those products. Because they are inexpensive-the typical user has little to no experience in the proper operation of ANY audio gear. So they just do what they want-and it fails. Or it sounds bad because the operator hos no idea what he is doing DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No brainer there.

Give a beginner the best musical instrument int he world and it will sound bad. is it the instruments fault? Now give a beginner instrument to a REAL player-and it will sound pretty good. It doesn't sound like the typical player of that instrument. So you HAVE to consider who is using the gear and what they do to it.

An experienced operator will pay attention to the little things-and often those are the things that will allow a system to live and play another gig.

Yes Eminance makes some inexpensive loudspeakers-and operated within their INTENDED usage-they will do just fine. But MANY TIMES-people will drive them much harder and expect them to operate the same as much more expensive loudspeakers and they fail. Is that the fault of the loudspeaker? There are limits.

And then they bitch on the internet. Those are probably the same people that drive cheap cars and complain they don't have the performance of the "performance cars" Well DUH again-the cheap car was not designed for that usage-so don't complain when it doesn't do something you think it should.

The difference between Genius and stupidity is that Genius has its limits. It is really amazing what some people attempt to do to loudspeakers.
 
Re: lighten up some subs

Ivan Beaver said:
A couple of comment based on REAL experience-decades of it.

I was a reconer for a couple of decades-so I have seen ALL KINDS of failures. I have seen all the major players (during the time I was doing it) have various types of "falling apart"-coils coming seperated-lead in wires break-surrounds tear-dust caps coming off-cones tearing and so forth. So it happends to the big boys also. It is a loudspeaker-which is mechanical in nature-and they fail. Simple as that.


When you say "run full range"-exactly what does that mean? If that meant you ran it without a proper highpass-then yes-it is pretty easy (especially with todays larger amplifiers) to make the driver overexcursion and destroy itself. EVERY LOUDSPEAKER should have a PROPERLY SET highpass! And a low pass on everyspeaker (including horns) is not a bad idea either.

Just something to consider-and this is the same issue that has plagued Peavey for years. There are all sorts of cases out there of people saying that Peavey systems sound bad-Eminance driver fail easily and so forth. BUT-LET'S CONSIDER the typical USER of those products. Because they are inexpensive-the typical user has little to no experience in the proper operation of ANY audio gear. So they just do what they want-and it fails. Or it sounds bad because the operator hos no idea what he is doing DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No brainer there.

Give a beginner the best musical instrument int he world and it will sound bad. is it the instruments fault? Now give a beginner instrument to a REAL player-and it will sound pretty good. It doesn't sound like the typical player of that instrument. So you HAVE to consider who is using the gear and what they do to it.

An experienced operator will pay attention to the little things-and often those are the things that will allow a system to live and play another gig.

Yes Eminance makes some inexpensive loudspeakers-and operated within their INTENDED usage-they will do just fine. But MANY TIMES-people will drive them much harder and expect them to operate the same as much more expensive loudspeakers and they fail. Is that the fault of the loudspeaker? There are limits.

And then they bitch on the internet. Those are probably the same people that drive cheap cars and complain they don't have the performance of the "performance cars" Well DUH again-the cheap car was not designed for that usage-so don't complain when it doesn't do something you think it should.

The difference between Genius and stupidity is that Genius has its limits. It is really amazing what some people attempt to do to loudspeakers.
Click to expand...

Full range, running a single ca 9 in stereo on two la 325's loaded with omegas, hi passed at 40 hz. 99 % of the time these box's are run bia amped over eaw 528's. 40 to 100 hz on the 528's, 100 and up on the 325's. There was no issue doing this with the omegas, as they didn't have to move. The blown omegas were replace with omega's, with a piece of red tape on the back of the box, meaning not to run these full range. He has 8 325's, actually 10 now that he bought mine, so tape keeps this pair together, and the last pair to ever go out at night.
I'm aware of what people try to do to speakers, its not pretty.
 
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