Making the next step in the PA biz... Let's hear your thoughts

Re: Making the next step in the PA biz... Let's hear your thoughts

yawn.... 135 pound 10year old trap boxes?dys sub?
gess thats business ....gear for others to abuse,get rained on...fallout of the truck
i dont recomend 650s on a mobile rig sls960 r in the same boat(anker)

if ur not going for top tier audio then buy a system that transports easly
hdl-20,jlf210?

real linearray projects/scale more better then MOST PILES OF TRAPS

dont have to fly the line or the dash to get good results
its the lazy sound co that stack um on a double 18 that gave ground stack abad rap
http://www.proproductions.co.uk/images/blog_120919111855.jpg

u need to stackit higher

the 10year old stuff used might be the ticket but not traps
http://www.novelty.fr/images/materiel/5_lacoustics_dvdosc_005.jpg
http://octalino.com/Portals/0/images/d&b_q1_stacke.jpg

a trick line array would have varible horzional covrage
like the kudo or the gto mini compass
Outline Mini-COM.P.A.S.S. iMode - Video Tutorial.m4v - YouTube=

buy the line rent ur buddies bar band rig
or invest in ur midas
 
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Re: Making the next step in the PA biz... Let's hear your thoughts

Evan Kirkendall said:
Well guys, I think I've changed my mind again. :lol:

I feel like owning a ton of matching small to mid-sized boxes is the way to go.

So, figure a dozen mid sized trap boxes, a dozen or so sub, and a dozen or so self powered boxes. Plus some small consoles, and maybe a few other misc boxes, and I think I'll have a pretty profitable set up.

Thoughts?



Evan
Click to expand...

Yep, seems reasonable to me. This keeps you just under the level where many logistical complications begin to arise.

Best thing I ever did was to get rid of all the bigger stuff. Now all I keep on hand are some small consoles, a small pile of powered cabs, basic LED lighting, and mics, cables, etc, etc. I don't own anything that I can't lift by myself anymore. If I need something I don't have, I am happy to rent, knowing that despite the cost and inconvenience of crossrentals , they leave me further ahead in the long run.

With a small, versatile setup like you propose, you'll be able to keep the gear you have working consistently, and be able to transport it more easily, deploy it quicker, and often deploy with just a one-man crew. And you keep your initial investment in gear to a minimum, and focused on high ROI items.

My only suggestion might be to look for a more compact/lighter trap box than the SLS960. Preferably something under 100lbs, that a single person can position without assistance in most circumstances. Something along the lines of a 50lb Danley SM60F would be more like it, though those might not quite have the output you want.
 
Re: Making the next step in the PA biz... Let's hear your thoughts

Mark,
Why would I buy 8-10 small line array boxes that will have the same output(and similar SQ) as 4 traps. You know, boxes that were meant to be stacked? I'm not buying into the whole small line array stacked nonsense. I've mixed on every LA box under the sun flown and stacked. It never sounds good stacked. Sorry.

I can get trap boxes that are still accepted by everyone, that will perform just fine, cost me less, and make me similar(if not more) $$. If I would go the LA route, I'm going to do it right and get proper boxes. None of these small format boxes are worth it IMO.



Evan
 
Re: Making the next step in the PA biz... Let's hear your thoughts

Mark, 8 trap boxes can cover 4 small stages if needed. 8 small line array boxes will not. I wont even go to the thing that those old trap boxes that Evan has on mind will kick the shit out of that plastic line array wannabe box by rcf and sound much much better.
 
Re: Making the next step in the PA biz... Let's hear your thoughts

Mark Lonow said:
yawn.... 135 pound 10year old trap boxes?dys sub?
gess thats business ....gear for others to abuse,get rained on...fallout of the truck
i dont recomend 650s on a mobile rig sls960 r in the same boat(anker)

if ur not going for top tier audio then buy a system that transports easly
hdl-20,jlf210?

real linearray projects/scale more better then MOST PILES OF TRAPS

dont have to fly the line or the dash to get good results
its the lazy sound co that stack um on a double 18 that gave ground stack abad rap
http://www.proproductions.co.uk/images/blog_120919111855.jpg

u need to stackit higher

the 10year old stuff used might be the ticket but not traps
http://www.novelty.fr/images/materiel/5_lacoustics_dvdosc_005.jpg
http://octalino.com/Portals/0/images/d&b_q1_stacke.jpg

a trick line array would have varible horzional covrage
like the kudo or the gto mini compass
Outline Mini-COM.P.A.S.S. iMode - Video Tutorial.m4v - YouTube=

buy the line rent ur buddies bar band rig
or invest in ur midas
Click to expand...


Learn to spell, you lazy git.
 
Re: Making the next step in the PA biz... Let's hear your thoughts

Mark Lonow said:
yawn.... 135 pound 10year old trap boxes?dys sub?
gess thats business ....gear for others to abuse,get rained on...fallout of the truck
i dont recomend 650s on a mobile rig sls960 r in the same boat(anker)

if ur not going for top tier audio then buy a system that transports easly
hdl-20,jlf210?

real linearray projects/scale more better then MOST PILES OF TRAPS

dont have to fly the line or the dash to get good results
its the lazy sound co that stack um on a double 18 that gave ground stack abad rap
http://www.proproductions.co.uk/images/blog_120919111855.jpg

u need to stackit higher

the 10year old stuff used might be the ticket but not traps
http://www.novelty.fr/images/materiel/5_lacoustics_dvdosc_005.jpg
http://octalino.com/Portals/0/images/d&b_q1_stacke.jpg

a trick line array would have varible horzional covrage
like the kudo or the gto mini compass
Outline Mini-COM.P.A.S.S. iMode - Video Tutorial.m4v - YouTube=

buy the line rent ur buddies bar band rig
or invest in ur midas
Click to expand...

What language is this?
 
Re: Making the next step in the PA biz... Let's hear your thoughts

I like that mark actually had to edit his post.. did he forget a period?
 
Re: Making the next step in the PA biz... Let's hear your thoughts

Evan Kirkendall said:
Mark,
Why would I buy 8-10 small line array boxes that will have the same output(and similar SQ) as 4 traps. You know, boxes that were meant to be stacked? I'm not buying into the whole small line array stacked nonsense. I've mixed on every LA box under the sun flown and stacked. It never sounds good stacked. Sorry.

I can get trap boxes that are still accepted by everyone, that will perform just fine, cost me less, and make me similar(if not more) $$. If I would go the LA route, I'm going to do it right and get proper boxes. None of these small format boxes are worth it IMO.



Evan
Click to expand...

Right on, because a line array element will not build a line array by miracle. Most of the stacked "lines" are too short (and will never be long enough because it's physically impossible to stack that high).

You are very well off with proper trap systems, much more flexible than line array elements. Which trap boxes is another story though.

Heavy: why not, if they sound good...

Rentable: you know what most of your customers want.
 
Re: Making the next step in the PA biz... Let's hear your thoughts

Ivan and others have all mentioned SOS and providing dry hire. I'm just wondering what precautions you take to make sure the gear comes back....? For a small guy, the loss of gear is a big deal..

(Some places I rent from don't even require payment up front. Others require payment and sighting a drivers license.)
 
For 'unknown' clients we require payment upfront and either a driver's licence or credit card number on file. I can't remember the last time we've had to a rental not come back. We have had to repo some gear that was sold with payment terms.
 
Re: Making the next step in the PA biz... Let's hear your thoughts

Just on a bigger picture - your local library will have a shelf full of business books. Not necessarily the college accounting ones, but the more mass market ones. Definitely go take a browse through that shelf. This particular question reminds me a lot of the "80/20 rule" thing. You can learn most of that one just from a few minutes of web browsing - basically 80% of your income will probably come from 20% of your gear, and 80% of your hassles will come from 20% of your customers. So the upshot is finding that 20% style gear that makes the most money.
 
Re: Making the next step in the PA biz... Let's hear your thoughts

Evan Kirkendall said:
Well guys, I think I've changed my mind again. :lol:

After this past weekend, some light was shed on what I think I really need to do. I feel like owning a ton of matching small to mid-sized boxes is the way to go. This event over the weekend had 8 stages of music. I needed 1 big system, and 7 smaller systems. If I owned enough matching boxes, I could have provided for every single stage myself, without having to rent in. The buy in cost is lower, and I can make my money back a lot quicker this way I feel. I'll also have the ability to send out multiple shows at a time, instead of only have 1 big rig to send out every so often. So, figure a dozen mid sized trap boxes(SLS960's), a dozen or so sub(HS118's), and a dozen or so self powered boxes(PRX612m). Plus some small consoles, and maybe a few other misc boxes, and I think I'll have a pretty profitable set up. Plus, I can still rent in a bigger rig on the larger shows, while still using my stuff to cover any other stages at these gigs.


Thoughts?



Evan
Click to expand...

Remember Tim's comments about needing a business plan? The man speaks truth.

Having a large supply of multipurpose boxes can work well, provided you have enough small consoles and the other trimmings to go with them. And you have sufficient staff to handle several smaller gigs simultaneously (or go the dry-hire route, which has its own complications). I probably wouldn't pick something like the SLS960 or the KF650 as a workhorse box, though. They're too big and heavy to be set up by a single person, and aren't really usable on smaller gigs (or as delays on stands). Me, I'd keep it under 60lbs/box, and stick with something with a pole mount. If you can put together a decent mix at lower volume levels, you might be suprised how many people you can cover with modern 12+horn or 15+horn speakers (2 or 3 way, coaxial or not) that fits on a stick, especially with subs.

Remember, the point of this exercise is to make a reasonable profit (enough to live on), not to have the most and shiniest toys. Lots of ways to get there, but you need to figure out what is going to work best for your market and your customers (both current and potential).
 
Re: Making the next step in the PA biz... Let's hear your thoughts

This thread has been a very good read. A lot of wisdom contained in many of the posts.

I'll chime in with something of a sidetrack - if dry-hire to end users is a significant part of the business, it is well worth spending the time and money and getting a proper hire management system sorted out. Do it before you have a warehouse full of gear - it's a lot easier to buy a system and grow into it, than to have to try and get all your stock conforming to a new system that you bring in once you're at "breaking point" and can't get by without it.
 
Re: Making the next step in the PA biz... Let's hear your thoughts

kristianjohnsen said:
I have had success owning stage monitors that also may be used for front/side/out-fill/delay duties as well as being SOS-speakers and small mains together with one or more subs from the bigger systems.
Click to expand...

Having boxes that can play more than one game are one of the best investments personally. For me its my QRX115 or Milan M15 boxes. Both can go out on nearly any call I get and do their job well and fulfill numerous duties.
 
Re: Making the next step in the PA biz... Let's hear your thoughts

@ Tom,

Here is what you forgot in you day.
- The hour long phone RANT from me about, how Showtime is under bidding us! Another thing broke in the truck and is costing me more money. Why did everything we own sit last week and make no money, but this week we need twice as much equipment and now have to sub-rent. Is Showtime really under bidding us again! I've been doing invoices for what seems like hours, I can't wait to get to the shop to get everything ready for my gig. No wait I have a meeting followed by a meeting followed by hours of quotes. Still haven't made it to the shop to prep gear, now I've got to hire people to do that....there goes a some profit. I'm so glad all my UPS delivers are a day late, now someone needs to be at the shop tomorrow to get them....there goes a some profit. Racks need to be rebuilt and speakers painted since they spent the last week outside and are now going into a hotel ballroom. I'd love to do that but, I'm still in this "hour long meeting", that dragged on for four hours and we both know the head person isn't actually here, which means i'm going to be in another meeting next week justifying my "ridiculously high price" to that person. Is Showtime really under bidding us again! Crap, speakers still need to be painted, and fixtures addressed. Got to have two people at the shop doing that....there goes a some profit. This guy really won't take an M7? Now one of us has to drive two hours and pick up an SC48 and the M7 can sit in the shop ALL week....there goes a some profit. Why do my clients that make me the least amount of money, call me the most and waste the most of my time. Meeting just ended, client says " Your competition is going to include ALL labor and trucking for FREE, hope you can as well". I just spent 4 hours with this guy and he says that! Now your heads going to explode, and I want scream "FREE! REALLY! WTF!" but you don't. You just sit there and smile, thank him for his time and say "when I get back to the office I'll see what I can work out". And the hard truth sets in that Showtime really is under bidding us again! This hour long rant is now on hour two! All the while realizing, did I really spend more time this week driving a truck then actually doing any real production work? FML

What I've learned in the last few years is that doesn't matter what lights or PA, if any that I own. The only thing needed is patience, good negation skills, and a solid plan. I think Evans on his way there!
 
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