Midas Mixtender iPad App
- Thread starter Brandon G Romanowski
- Start date
Re: Midas Mixtender iPad App
Shane the Mixtender app was developed on an iPad1, so it definitely works on that device. You do need iOS5.1 installed though.
Hope this helps,
Jason
Shane the Mixtender app was developed on an iPad1, so it definitely works on that device. You do need iOS5.1 installed though.
Hope this helps,
Jason
Re: Midas Mixtender iPad App
Jason, I would be very happy to give you a review, but more than a month after grabbing the app we are still waiting for the "immenent" release of the v2 software we need to use the App. Any update on just how immenent it is for XL8? I love the concept. The demos look great. I just want o b able touse it!
Jason, I would be very happy to give you a review, but more than a month after grabbing the app we are still waiting for the "immenent" release of the v2 software we need to use the App. Any update on just how immenent it is for XL8? I love the concept. The demos look great. I just want o b able touse it!
Re: Midas Mixtender iPad App
We are trying very hard to make sure that when Generation-II software is publicly released its as stable as we can make it. This means once beta testing starts the reports of bugs need to be addressed, fixed and then retested. Its a very complex process as Im sure everyone here appreciates. Especially for MIDAS, because we have to test every console and i/o box because they all have to cross compatible. Unfortunately this means that releases can take longer than expected to be released. But with all this said we are planning to release for all current consoles before Infocomm.
Hope this helps
We are trying very hard to make sure that when Generation-II software is publicly released its as stable as we can make it. This means once beta testing starts the reports of bugs need to be addressed, fixed and then retested. Its a very complex process as Im sure everyone here appreciates. Especially for MIDAS, because we have to test every console and i/o box because they all have to cross compatible. Unfortunately this means that releases can take longer than expected to be released. But with all this said we are planning to release for all current consoles before Infocomm.
Hope this helps
Re: Midas Mixtender iPad App
~~:smile:.
So hopefully I can post a review by the end of June. Looking forward to putting it through its paces, with the primary task being able to set a monitor mix from centre stage, and then allowing performers to control their own monitor mixes.
Thanks Jason. Yes that does help. The testing is very important. Mid June will be great. If you make that mid June target we will be pleased, though it will mean I owe a case of coke for the tech fridge - we have a "book" running on the availability date
~~:smile:.So hopefully I can post a review by the end of June. Looking forward to putting it through its paces, with the primary task being able to set a monitor mix from centre stage, and then allowing performers to control their own monitor mixes.
Re: Midas Mixtender iPad App
If you had mentioned the "book" I would have spun reality a little and made sure you won. I'd have expected a cut obviously! We had intended to release this week. But the Queen's Jubilee celebrations got in the way (its a holiday here).
So you can blame her majesty for the case of coke.
Sorry.
Thanks Jason. Yes that does help. The testing is very important. Mid June will be great. If you make that mid June target we will be pleased, though it will mean I owe a case of coke for the tech fridge - we have a "book" running on the availability date
So hopefully I can post a review by the end of June. Looking forward to putting it through its paces, with the primary task being able to set a monitor mix from centre stage, and then allowing performers to control their own monitor mixes.
If you had mentioned the "book" I would have spun reality a little and made sure you won. I'd have expected a cut obviously! We had intended to release this week. But the Queen's Jubilee celebrations got in the way (its a holiday here).
So you can blame her majesty for the case of coke.
Sorry.
Re: Midas Mixtender iPad App
As I plan the WiFi installation, are you able to help with a few clarifications?
Should we plan for two separate WiFi SSDI, VLANs and DHCP scopes for FOH and Monitor XL8 consoles? Or is it ok to operate both consoles from the same network? How does the Mixtender App handle seeing two consoles on the same network?
And now for the topic of the next "book" ... are we likely to see an Android version of Mixtender anytime soon? Some of the team here are iOperators already iEquipped with iProducts. but we have one dinosaur whose kit is an iFree zone.
Ahh, so its the case of the Royal Jubilee Coca Cola supply ... LOL. We get a long weekend next weekend.
As I plan the WiFi installation, are you able to help with a few clarifications?
Should we plan for two separate WiFi SSDI, VLANs and DHCP scopes for FOH and Monitor XL8 consoles? Or is it ok to operate both consoles from the same network? How does the Mixtender App handle seeing two consoles on the same network?
And now for the topic of the next "book" ... are we likely to see an Android version of Mixtender anytime soon? Some of the team here are iOperators already iEquipped with iProducts. but we have one dinosaur whose kit is an iFree zone.
Re: Midas Mixtender iPad App
I note that Gen II software has now been released. Making arrangements with the local support organization to get it installed. Wireless network is ready to go (different SSID and VLAN for FoH and Monitor consoles). Case of coke ttear purchased and ceremoniously handed to the team when upgrade is done -an incentive to complete the task
. Will report back when Mixtender ha been experienced.
I note that Gen II software has now been released. Making arrangements with the local support organization to get it installed. Wireless network is ready to go (different SSID and VLAN for FoH and Monitor consoles). Case of coke ttear purchased and ceremoniously handed to the team when upgrade is done -an incentive to complete the task
. Will report back when Mixtender ha been experienced.Re: Midas Mixtender iPad App
Last weekend was time for me to "pay up" with the coke. I had suggested there was no way the Gen II software would be seen this side of July. I was wrong. Its now installed and running on both our XL8 consoles. So here is the evidence of the pay-out.
Its a good thing Coke was on sale at the local supermarket that week!
I had a reasonable look at Gen II over the weekend, with two "shows" on Sunday. As noted above, the main drivers for us was the ability to use Mixtender iPad app. But of course it comes with other changes/enhancements from the original software version. Here are my initial thoughts:
Changes:
Losses:
Additions:
As the sole operator for the first event, being able to unmute channels and adjust foldback/monitor levels from on-stage was wonderful. Then once the musos were happy, I could wander back to the mix/op position and set the FOH mix. saved a lot of walking back and forth, resulting in one of the most efficient set-ups ever. With simple events with up to 8 monitor sends we generally fun monitors from FOH and just "pass-through" the Monitor desk without a separate monitor operator.
Second event we had two ops, but still used FOH console for monitors. I set Foldback/Monitor from on-stage, controlling the mix on the FOH desk while Scottie (on the left in pic above" set FOH and Jono (on the right in pic) drank Coke. Jono had "played" with Gen II and Mixtender on Friday so Sunday was our turn.
I found Mixtender very good for its intended purpose. Its not meant to provide full control over all aspects of the console. But it does allow simple max level control, channle mute/unmute, visual feedback of levels, and control over the patched graphic EQs. However, there are a few things that would be great to see in an updated version which would make it an even better app:
1. When in VCA view, selecting the VCA "button" at the top of the fader would be really nice if it took you to the equivalent of the VCA population group view of the channels in the VCA group. Eight channels at a time is ok and swipe to view more if there are more than eight channels in the group. I know the intention is not to "mix" FOH from Mixtender, but when common sources are in a FOH group (such as Drums/Kit, Vocals, Strings, Brass etc) and not necessarily in grouped or consecutive input channels, then finding them via the VCA selection can be a lot easier.
2. The ability to select an input channel and adjust Gain, EQ, Compression and Gate thresholds. This obviously add complexity to the app, but would be great functionality. I like the touch/drag EQ adjustments on the Yamaha StageMix app. Compression and Gate controls really only need the thresholds and not full configuration capability.
I have yet to set-up the Mixtender connection for the Monitor desk. I was originally thinking it would require its own separate SSID and IP Subnet (same AP and LAN switych using different VLANs for each console). Is there any "best practice" for this? Should we just run them both on the same IP subnet/SSID or keep them separate?
It would be nice to be able to provide iPad access to performers to adjust their own mix. However, I need to spend a little more time with the app to understand how best to "protect" FOH and other monitor mixes from performers self-mixing their own foldback. The "Lock Mix" and "Lock Navigation" under Settings are the obvious components to this protection. But I have yet to understand the function of the password and the "Allow Select" option. Is there any documentation available such as a User Guide for Mixtender?
Overall I am really happy with Mixtender and so far the Gen II code seems to be behaving itself - always a risk with new code. Keep up the enhancements.
Last weekend was time for me to "pay up" with the coke. I had suggested there was no way the Gen II software would be seen this side of July. I was wrong. Its now installed and running on both our XL8 consoles. So here is the evidence of the pay-out
.Its a good thing Coke was on sale at the local supermarket that week!
I had a reasonable look at Gen II over the weekend, with two "shows" on Sunday. As noted above, the main drivers for us was the ability to use Mixtender iPad app. But of course it comes with other changes/enhancements from the original software version. Here are my initial thoughts:
Changes:
- Attenuation level displayed on the channel/VCA select button when the fader is touched - handy addition
- Some different effects. Have not had a chance to investigate all yet, but the delay sounded nice. Might be able to retire the outboard D2 now.
- Shutdown process is pretty - "DO NOT POWER OFF" -> "GOODBYE"
Losses:
- No longer able to Copy/Paste between individual channel - or at least we could not find it
Additions:
- MIXTENDER!!!!
As the sole operator for the first event, being able to unmute channels and adjust foldback/monitor levels from on-stage was wonderful. Then once the musos were happy, I could wander back to the mix/op position and set the FOH mix. saved a lot of walking back and forth, resulting in one of the most efficient set-ups ever. With simple events with up to 8 monitor sends we generally fun monitors from FOH and just "pass-through" the Monitor desk without a separate monitor operator.
Second event we had two ops, but still used FOH console for monitors. I set Foldback/Monitor from on-stage, controlling the mix on the FOH desk while Scottie (on the left in pic above" set FOH and Jono (on the right in pic) drank Coke. Jono had "played" with Gen II and Mixtender on Friday so Sunday was our turn.
I found Mixtender very good for its intended purpose. Its not meant to provide full control over all aspects of the console. But it does allow simple max level control, channle mute/unmute, visual feedback of levels, and control over the patched graphic EQs. However, there are a few things that would be great to see in an updated version which would make it an even better app:
1. When in VCA view, selecting the VCA "button" at the top of the fader would be really nice if it took you to the equivalent of the VCA population group view of the channels in the VCA group. Eight channels at a time is ok and swipe to view more if there are more than eight channels in the group. I know the intention is not to "mix" FOH from Mixtender, but when common sources are in a FOH group (such as Drums/Kit, Vocals, Strings, Brass etc) and not necessarily in grouped or consecutive input channels, then finding them via the VCA selection can be a lot easier.
2. The ability to select an input channel and adjust Gain, EQ, Compression and Gate thresholds. This obviously add complexity to the app, but would be great functionality. I like the touch/drag EQ adjustments on the Yamaha StageMix app. Compression and Gate controls really only need the thresholds and not full configuration capability.
I have yet to set-up the Mixtender connection for the Monitor desk. I was originally thinking it would require its own separate SSID and IP Subnet (same AP and LAN switych using different VLANs for each console). Is there any "best practice" for this? Should we just run them both on the same IP subnet/SSID or keep them separate?
It would be nice to be able to provide iPad access to performers to adjust their own mix. However, I need to spend a little more time with the app to understand how best to "protect" FOH and other monitor mixes from performers self-mixing their own foldback. The "Lock Mix" and "Lock Navigation" under Settings are the obvious components to this protection. But I have yet to understand the function of the password and the "Allow Select" option. Is there any documentation available such as a User Guide for Mixtender?
Overall I am really happy with Mixtender and so far the Gen II code seems to be behaving itself - always a risk with new code. Keep up the enhancements.
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Re: Midas Mixtender iPad App
Thought I would add an update on our experience with Mixtender and Gen II software on the XL8 platform.
Firstly, we learned the hard way that we should not run two XL8 consoles on the same IP subnet. The two consoles (FoH and Monitors) were given unique IP addresses in the sae subnet (192.168.2.10/24 and 192.168.2.20/24) and very soon after starting the second console's service, both consoles lost connection with their DSP's, and shutdown half the console displays.
So we now run them on different IP subnets using access ports in different VLANs on the switch and a trunk interface o the Wireless Access Pointbtht runs separate SSIDs for each VLANS/Subet. It's all workings table in this configuration.
We also found the missing Copy/Paste function on the input channels. It's where it used to be nd I similar location to the Master displays. It's jut that the icon/text for the function is not is played in the box at the top of the channel function display - its just a blank box. Put the mouse curser in the right place in the blank box and click right button and the appropriate function appears! Seems like someone may have forgotton to code the display of these functions on the input module displays, but it does work.
So appart from our little scare when operating to console's on the same IP subnet and VLAN, our experience so far with Gen II and Mixtender is positive. Now we just need to get a couple of hardware issues resolved (a dead DSP module and a console display that freezes) and all will be good~~:smile:.
Thought I would add an update on our experience with Mixtender and Gen II software on the XL8 platform.
Firstly, we learned the hard way that we should not run two XL8 consoles on the same IP subnet. The two consoles (FoH and Monitors) were given unique IP addresses in the sae subnet (192.168.2.10/24 and 192.168.2.20/24) and very soon after starting the second console's service, both consoles lost connection with their DSP's, and shutdown half the console displays.
So we now run them on different IP subnets using access ports in different VLANs on the switch and a trunk interface o the Wireless Access Pointbtht runs separate SSIDs for each VLANS/Subet. It's all workings table in this configuration.
We also found the missing Copy/Paste function on the input channels. It's where it used to be nd I similar location to the Master displays. It's jut that the icon/text for the function is not is played in the box at the top of the channel function display - its just a blank box. Put the mouse curser in the right place in the blank box and click right button and the appropriate function appears! Seems like someone may have forgotton to code the display of these functions on the input module displays, but it does work.
So appart from our little scare when operating to console's on the same IP subnet and VLAN, our experience so far with Gen II and Mixtender is positive. Now we just need to get a couple of hardware issues resolved (a dead DSP module and a console display that freezes) and all will be good
~~:smile:.Re: Midas Mixtender iPad App
Hi Neil,
We have and XL8 / Pro6. We get a lot of riders come through asking for Aviom, and I am considering investing in a small pile of ipads instead of an aviom system and I was wondering if you have used mixtender in this way and is it practical ?
Chris
Hi Neil,
We have and XL8 / Pro6. We get a lot of riders come through asking for Aviom, and I am considering investing in a small pile of ipads instead of an aviom system and I was wondering if you have used mixtender in this way and is it practical ?
Chris
Re: Midas Mixtender iPad App
Don't do it, get Aviom, Roland or Pivitec LLC : Personal Monitor Mixing Systems, Audio Networks, Wireless Control if you are set on the IPAD idea.
Re: Midas Mixtender iPad App
After buying two of those things, I'd be buying Coke on sale, too! Nice desks!!So here is the evidence of the pay-out
View attachment 4044
Its a good thing Coke was on sale at the local supermarket that week!
View attachment 4043
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Re: Midas Mixtender iPad App
Aviom and Mixtender are really quite different products. While we certainly have looked at the concept of using Mixtender for individual/personal performer foldback/monitor mixing, we have not done that in any anger.
If people want Aviom, then I expect that are most likely to be using in-ear monitoring. I have only ever used Aviom in this manner, with wired or wireless in-ear monitoring. Aviom provides the performer with the ability to mix a small number of signals/channels (16) at the local device, with the mixed signal presented at the headphone socket of the Aviom pod. Mixtender is giving you the ability to adjust the levels at the real console and does not have the audio available at the iPad - you can't plug a set of headphones into the iPad and monitor your mix. But I you could use it to control the mix sent to an in-ear wireless transmitter or to a wedge.
I have only looked superficially at the "Lock Mix", "Lock Navigation" and "Lock GEQ" options that can be turned on and off in the Settings. So can't really comment on how well they work or don't work for multi-user operation for controlling individual mixes. Those will be key functions to ensure people can only adjust their own mix. One thing that I expect may make it difficult for inexperienced Mixtender users is the presentation of all channels. If there was a way to present only a small subset of channels to each "user", perhaps even by presnting a POP group or some other mechanism for customising the channel presentation, it would be a little more "performer-friendly" for the purpose you are seeking.
Aviom is optomised for personal monitor mixing for individual performers, and it does that very well. While I think it would be possible, and maybe even a good idea, to enhance Mixtender to be more performer-friendly, in its current format I think its more suited as a tool for the monitor engineer or FOH engineer to make adjustments from a position other than at the real control surface. It can also come in handy as a monitoring screen for consoles with a limited screen real-estate (not a problem for the XL8 with 5 displays though, even enough to watch the cricket on one display).
If I had a rider that called for Aviom, I would supply Aviom. But that does not mean you can't use Mixtender in a similar manner. I just think that a band accustomed to using Aviom is not going to be comfortable with Mixtender. Before investing in a small pile of iPads, I suggest you thoroughly test its capability, especially the ability to lock to a single mix and the presentation of channels on the display. I expect you will need to carefully arrange channels into groups/blocks of eight for logical presentation to the user.
When I next have some play time, I'll have a more detailed look at the lock-out functions and hence the viability to use for performer self-operation.
Hi Chris,
Aviom and Mixtender are really quite different products. While we certainly have looked at the concept of using Mixtender for individual/personal performer foldback/monitor mixing, we have not done that in any anger.
If people want Aviom, then I expect that are most likely to be using in-ear monitoring. I have only ever used Aviom in this manner, with wired or wireless in-ear monitoring. Aviom provides the performer with the ability to mix a small number of signals/channels (16) at the local device, with the mixed signal presented at the headphone socket of the Aviom pod. Mixtender is giving you the ability to adjust the levels at the real console and does not have the audio available at the iPad - you can't plug a set of headphones into the iPad and monitor your mix. But I you could use it to control the mix sent to an in-ear wireless transmitter or to a wedge.
I have only looked superficially at the "Lock Mix", "Lock Navigation" and "Lock GEQ" options that can be turned on and off in the Settings. So can't really comment on how well they work or don't work for multi-user operation for controlling individual mixes. Those will be key functions to ensure people can only adjust their own mix. One thing that I expect may make it difficult for inexperienced Mixtender users is the presentation of all channels. If there was a way to present only a small subset of channels to each "user", perhaps even by presnting a POP group or some other mechanism for customising the channel presentation, it would be a little more "performer-friendly" for the purpose you are seeking.
Aviom is optomised for personal monitor mixing for individual performers, and it does that very well. While I think it would be possible, and maybe even a good idea, to enhance Mixtender to be more performer-friendly, in its current format I think its more suited as a tool for the monitor engineer or FOH engineer to make adjustments from a position other than at the real control surface. It can also come in handy as a monitoring screen for consoles with a limited screen real-estate (not a problem for the XL8 with 5 displays though, even enough to watch the cricket on one display).
If I had a rider that called for Aviom, I would supply Aviom. But that does not mean you can't use Mixtender in a similar manner. I just think that a band accustomed to using Aviom is not going to be comfortable with Mixtender. Before investing in a small pile of iPads, I suggest you thoroughly test its capability, especially the ability to lock to a single mix and the presentation of channels on the display. I expect you will need to carefully arrange channels into groups/blocks of eight for logical presentation to the user.
When I next have some play time, I'll have a more detailed look at the lock-out functions and hence the viability to use for performer self-operation.
Re: Midas Mixtender iPad App
Hi Guys,
I thought I would just add a little regarding the use of Mixtender as a personal monitoring system. When using the lock mix, lock navigation and lock GEQ functions, it works best when using MCA's for the selected performer, so that they then have 8/10/12 (depending on the console type) MCA faders for adjusting their mix, dependent on how you set up your VCA's. With careful choices, this can be very effective, and will even work if using pre-fade sends for the monitors if mixing monitors from FOH, as the MCA function over-rides the pre-fade send levels.
Obviously this is not as flexible as a full Aviom system (please note that we do have an Aviom card for our DN9650 Network bridge), it is an useful alternative, and a cost effective one also, especially if the performers have their own iPads.
Hi Guys,
I thought I would just add a little regarding the use of Mixtender as a personal monitoring system. When using the lock mix, lock navigation and lock GEQ functions, it works best when using MCA's for the selected performer, so that they then have 8/10/12 (depending on the console type) MCA faders for adjusting their mix, dependent on how you set up your VCA's. With careful choices, this can be very effective, and will even work if using pre-fade sends for the monitors if mixing monitors from FOH, as the MCA function over-rides the pre-fade send levels.
Obviously this is not as flexible as a full Aviom system (please note that we do have an Aviom card for our DN9650 Network bridge), it is an useful alternative, and a cost effective one also, especially if the performers have their own iPads.
Re: Midas Mixtender iPad App
Hi Rob. Thanks for the suggestion. But how does one access MCAs on an XL8? I thought they were only on Pro2. Or can they accessed on other consoles with Gen2 software? The concept is most interesting and certainly would make personal monitor mixing via Mixtender very practical. I really like the concept, but infortunately don't have a Pro2.
Might have to start a new shopping list, with a Pro2 and DN9650 (Dante could be interesting with things like Shure ULX-D radios).
Hi Rob. Thanks for the suggestion. But how does one access MCAs on an XL8? I thought they were only on Pro2. Or can they accessed on other consoles with Gen2 software? The concept is most interesting and certainly would make personal monitor mixing via Mixtender very practical. I really like the concept, but infortunately don't have a Pro2.
Might have to start a new shopping list, with a Pro2 and DN9650 (Dante could be interesting with things like Shure ULX-D radios).
Re: Midas Mixtender iPad App
Hi Neil,
You can access the MCA's on both the XL8 and the Pro 3/6/9 as long as they are running Gen 2 software. The way to access the advanced navigation functions is to press and hold the * button on the surface keypad, and then the POP groups toggle to show the advanced navigation buttons - ie. MCA, GEQ, FLIP, HOME. You can also assign the advanced navigation buttons to the 'quick keys' in the preferences, and once assigned you use the quick keys by a quick press of the * button followed by either the number 1, 2, or 3 on the keypad, depending on how you have assigned them.
Hi Neil,
You can access the MCA's on both the XL8 and the Pro 3/6/9 as long as they are running Gen 2 software. The way to access the advanced navigation functions is to press and hold the * button on the surface keypad, and then the POP groups toggle to show the advanced navigation buttons - ie. MCA, GEQ, FLIP, HOME. You can also assign the advanced navigation buttons to the 'quick keys' in the preferences, and once assigned you use the quick keys by a quick press of the * button followed by either the number 1, 2, or 3 on the keypad, depending on how you have assigned them.
Re: Midas Mixtender iPad App
Thanks Rob. That is a most helpful description and I will check it out shortly. I did briefly look at the GEQ function using this method when we first had Gen 2 loaded, but did not have any idea of the MCA capability. Having a DN9331 next to each console kind of removes the need for us to use the GEQ function on the console, so I never investigated the other new Gen 2 features properly. I will definately investigate further, especially in relation to Mixtender and personal monitor mixing. Just need a few hours of spare time to experiement a little. As I noted previously, this is something we have wanted to do for a while, but have not had a chance to progress it much. We use Mixtender regularly for setting monitor mixes during sound-check and find it a wonderful tool for that purpose.