Mixing live tracks: headphones or monitors

Jay Barracato

Jay Barracato

Graduate Student
Jan 11, 2011
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Solomons MD
I am in the process of mixing some live multitracks and I have been using either some standard iPod buds, one of several of my live use headphones (senn or gk ultra phones) or a small mackie mixer through a k10. All these present some problems tonally.

looking at sweetwater it seems there are a lot of choices for active "studio" monitors in the $150-$250 each range. I can justify this for the amount of mixing/mastering I will be doing at home but not a lot more. I am not really looking to set up a home studio, but just want to be able to take live tracks and create reasonable demos.

so given a budget of $500, what monitors should I look at, or would I be better off with a better pair of headphones?
 
Re: Mixing live tracks: headphones or monitors

I'm quite happy with my KRK Rockit 5 monitors and old as dirt AKG K140 headphones.
When I mix with my Sennheiser headphones I tend to make the mix too sharp, and using my (high quality) earbuds I tend to make the bass too heavy and rumbling for big stereo playback
 
Re: Mixing live tracks: headphones or monitors

Don't forget the room you listen in has it's own problems. If your mixes are consistent on headphones, you can send it out to a qualified mastering house to get it more uniform with the world. Whatever you mix on should be what you listen to most frequently so you know how they respond. Compare your favorite recordings to the mixes you're doing during your mix session. Room monitors aren't a magic bullet, they're just adding room nodes and reflections. Do you really want to do the room treatments and the time spent listening to make your monitors worth their cost?

D5's are probably the best value especially in the US you probably won't need the sub for Bluegrass though. G
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I made that mistake once. The bass was putting out lots of sub 40hz that I didn't hear and that made it through the mastering. Sounded like a crack car once I played it with a sub. Now I check an RTA on recordings I do in the house and look for dirt down there.
 
Re: Mixing live tracks: headphones or monitors

krks and reference material for the win. whatever you mix on, its good practice to check your mix on a few different playback systems. when its good, it will translate well from system to system.
 
The dirty secret comes out: I haven't had any sort of playback device in my house for about 3 years unless I drag one of my k10s up from the basement. On my old desktop computer I had what best buy considered a better than average sound system. I found the hyping, I mean voicing, increasingly tiring to listen to over time. So when the desktop system died I got rid of the sound system as well.

I went yesterday and listened to a bunch of monitors. At the high end I picked the genelac 4080 over the Adams t7. That is just a reference because it is way out of my budget.

The KRK rokits left me cold, and the jbls in the same price range were OK at best. At a slightly, higher price, I liked the rcf model they had better. At that point I was at the same price point as the equator d5's that are on sale.

So based on the reviews I ordered the d5's unheard. They do have a 60 day gaurentee on the sound quality so if they don't live up to their rep I will return them and probably go with the rcf's.

Mark, I understand the impact of the room and can still use headphones for close/critical listening now and I will probably start treating the room over time.
 
Re: Mixing live tracks: headphones or monitors

Honestly Jay once you learn what your system does in the room you are mixing in you will be fine with most any decent set of monitors. As Lisa mentioned using reference material will help get you in the ballpark and then checking your mix against the reference music on a couple of other systems will see if it is translating well. The whole idea of trying to get a reasonably flat monitoring system is so you hear everything that is in there and don't have any surprises later on somebody else's system.

I was a studio engineer for many years and I basically mixed on Yamaha NS10's (which sound horrible) and then checked the mix on my high end Westlake BBSM10's. The reason so many engineers used the NS10's is because they forced you to clean up the midrange and then your mix would basically sound better on EVERY other system. We then would check the mix on something more accurate to see if there were any other problems there because the Yamaha's dropped off hard below 100hz. What you are really looking for in the end is "translation", basically your mix sounding the same but just colored a little by how someone else's system is tuned or hyped.

Here is an interesting article on the NS10 and has a lot of good information on near field monitors in general:
The Yamaha NS10 Story
 
Re: Mixing live tracks: headphones or monitors

I do the same "calibrating" between system and headphones in live and broadcast settings often.

Funny, I have been doing live sound fro close to 30 years, and only have been directly involved with post recording mixing a couple of times.
 
Re: Mixing live tracks: headphones or monitors

Jay Barracato said:
I do the same "calibrating" between system and headphones in live and broadcast settings often.

Funny, I have been doing live sound fro close to 30 years, and only have been directly involved with post recording mixing a couple of times.
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It is a different world. At least doing post on live recordings you won't have to be listening to a really bad singer or musician working on the same song for three straight 10 hour days and it still sounding bad. I got out of recording because I had gotten to where I almost hated music from sitting behind the speakers every day for hours at a time listening to the same song. I didn't want to listen to the radio and almost got to where I did not even want to hear anyone talk and I decided I loved music way too much to hate it. After a few years I went back into live sound and have been happy ever since. I really enjoy recording now but I only do it for bands I really like and let the rest of the engineers I work with handle the lions share of it.

Also a really accurate pair of headphones is always a good thing to have as well and they cost much less than even an average set of studio monitors. I have done hundreds of mixes with only a pair of NS10's and a pair of headphones to check it with.

I also agree with you on how good the Genelac speakers sound but I have never been happy with any mix I have done on them. I love to track with them and listen to them but it is kind of like driving a brand new Porsche and then getting into and old beater car. Your mix will never sound as good on anything else, at least on the systems most everyone else is listening to.
 
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Re: Mixing live tracks: headphones or monitors

All the new cheap KRK's so d wacky to me. I have den using g the same Mackie 824's for 14 years. I made a move to a pair of Spendor SA 500 tri amped 3 ways and that was a whole other eye opener. The most important thing with mixing tracks or live songs is a strong reference. Every person I have recommended and who have bought them have been thrilled with the D5's.
Get them and get used to them and things should fall into Place after a time. Headphones are great for editing and check g panning etc. I would also get used to mixing at as low a volume as possible.
 
Re: Mixing live tracks: headphones or monitors

I have a set of HS50Ms, supposedly the new NS10. though I've never heard those so I don't know. There is a new series of HS speakers out now.

I like them and would echo what has been said about them making you focus on the midrange. You'd definitely want an alternative method for checking the low end.

Chris
 
Re: Mixing live tracks: headphones or monitors

Yep, I am not a shear volume hound. Clarity is far more important to me than volume or the mystical "impact". Actually, most of the music I like best comes from a tradition of whole song tracking, rather than trying to piece them together phrase by phrase.

I got to do some live broadcasts from a studio once owned by Flatt and Scruggs, and I still love the way many of their old recordings are "mixed".
 
Re: Mixing live tracks: headphones or monitors

Jay Barracato said:
Yep, I am not a shear volume hound. Clarity is far more important to me than volume or the mystical "impact". Actually, most of the music I like best comes from a tradition of whole song tracking, rather than trying to piece them together phrase by phrase.

I got to do some live broadcasts from a studio once owned by Flatt and Scruggs, and I still love the way many of their old recordings are "mixed".
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One of my engineer friends once told me "Everything sounds better at 100db, so you really need to mix around 90db if you really want to know what is going on."
 
Re: Mixing live tracks: headphones or monitors

The little d5s fit in a smallish work box and can be carried around easily as well, I've bought a pair to use when my big Tannoy DM12s are a pest to move around or just excite too many room modes to be any use.G
 
Re: Mixing live tracks: headphones or monitors

Eric Cagle said:
One of my engineer friends once told me "Everything sounds better at 100db, so you really need to mix around 90db if you really want to know what is going on."
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I believe it is important to at least master at realistic level, but even mixing at the wrong level has pitfalls.
When mixing and mastering at a level lower than intended listening level, we tend to automatically apply some loudness compensation in our mix, and then playing back at a realistic level it will sound quite overdone at the top and heavy at the bottom. While mastering might repair some of the damage, instruments that are hotter than they really should be will still be sitting wrong in the mix. Cymbals that are too loud might be dulled down by mastering EQ and comp, but that will only give you dull cymbals, and bass and kick might be toned down, but one will end up with too much of it in the lower midrange and so on.
Unfortunately, my ears get quickly tired these days, and working with umpteen-take multitracks several hours a day is probably impossible at realistic levels for anyone but the young with undamaged ears (that might be an oxymoron).
 
Re: Mixing live tracks: headphones or monitors

Actually, many famous mix engineers mix at very low levels, and just check at higher levels.
Mixing just a little too loud can create all kinds of fatigue and maskIng problems. I don't know how one determines the playback volume while mixing?
 
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