Moved to Active/Self-Powered or stay passively powered?

Re: Moved to Active/Self-Powered or stay passively powered?

Daniel Postilnik said:
This is the bit that keeps me up at night. What's great about the QRX212 is that it's tall, and it is not a 90-degree box, which I imagine means you have bit more control over where sound is going and you can also use more than one per side to cover a larger area. I haven't been able to find a powered top that matches this description, but maybe I'm overestimating the importance of these factors.
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Bassmaxx has been working on a triple 12" self-powered coax box for a couple years now. Doug Fowler reported after the last Ultra Fest that "The top boxes sounded very nice to my ear". I have no idea on the pricing of these speakers, but I do know that Bassmaxx is about to launch a new all-self-powered line and the triple 12" is sorta the flagship. I'd say it's worth a call to find out what you can as that box fits your criteria to a T.
 
Re: Moved to Active/Self-Powered or stay passively powered?

Pascal.Pincosy said:
Bassmaxx has been working on a triple 12" self-powered coax box for a couple years now. Doug Fowler reported after the last Ultra Fest that "The top boxes sounded very nice to my ear". I have no idea on the pricing of these speakers, but I do know that Bassmaxx is about to launch a new all-self-powered line and the triple 12" is sorta the flagship. I'd say it's worth a call to find out what you can as that box fits your criteria to a T.
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WOW! Funny a triple 12 would be mentioned just as I am having a custom order built for me with 3x12+2" - no they are not powered or coax - I'll be using Crown Xti and System Architect.
 
Re: Moved to Active/Self-Powered or stay passively powered?

Mark Lonow said:
its 2012 and all top tour rigz in the wourld use power amps but 1 .....meyer

if u want powred srx/qrx demo this box:
EAW: KF364NT
Click to expand...

Which has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.
In fact, this type of thinking is counterproductive to the discussion.

Regards, Jack
 
Re: Moved to Active/Self-Powered or stay passively powered?

That and "txt spk" will get one put in the Iggy Bin. Had you not quoted him, I'd have never known what he said. :D
 
Re: Moved to Active/Self-Powered or stay passively powered?

Brian jojade said:
There's no 'right' answer between powered and passive speakers. It all depends on how you want to operate.

Advantages for passive speakers
•Replacement amps can be easier to deploy than full replacement of a box.
•For monitor speakers, there are no adjustments on the box that the artist can dick up.
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Hi Brian, I am going to quibble with the last two.

With powered boxes, if you lose something, you lose that box (or a portion thereof). Whether it is a driver, or an amp, or an electronic drive.
No need to trouble shoot, just replace the box. (Speaking of at the gig, not in the shop afterwards.) With separate power, if you lose an amp, you lose everything that it is driving. So you might lose all you mid high boxes. Or you might lose two channels of monitors. If a speaker goes, you can change the gain structure, or the balance. With a powered speaker it seems that it would be easier to change out one box, on the fly, than to deal with getting a new amp going. This is conjecture on my part. I use both types of systems, but would not have a spare on hand in almost all cases.

I think the last one is more of a push. Or you could make a counter point in favor of the powered speakers that there are less things for a guest artist to dick up.

Regards, Jack
 
Re: Moved to Active/Self-Powered or stay passively powered?

If you read my arguments for active speakers, you saw that I listed easy adjustment at the speaker as an advantage as well. That one depends on the 'artist' you're dealing with.

My experience is that speakers rarely fail unless abused. Amps, on the other hand, I've had fail on me, even if taken care of. It's easy to have a spare amp in the rack and moving over a couple cables brings you back online. In the case of a powered speaker failing, replacement could be quite a challenge, depending on placement. If it's out on scaffolding, or flown, it's sure not an easy swap if something goes wrong. If it's just a speaker on a stick, then yeah, it would be easier.
 
Re: Moved to Active/Self-Powered or stay passively powered?

I rarely load my amps to the max (read: 2 ohms), and I routinely have multiple amps driving the same passband. If any amps were to fail at a show, I can easily patch some speakers around and still have the same rig up and running, albeit with a heavier load on an amp or several. The rig might even have to go mono. I don't think it's possible for many to have spare amps, especially when one of my amps costs $3000 and there is no cheaper replacement that I could use.

I've never had any component of any powered speaker fail, and I've probably owned around 50 so far (not many compared to some companies I know). And I've owned many amps - the only ones that have ever failed on me were the original, unmodified Crown IT series.

The guys at my company and I are constantly debating powered speakers vs passive, and I think I've finally decided on a solution: passive mains and powered monitors and fills. I like powered speakers' ability to plug in anywhere I need one, for a breakout room, a fill, monitor, or anything at all. The flexibility of powered is undeniable. My FOH sound systems are larger and are comprised of many more speakers, and since one amp can drive many speakers it makes sense to have the mains passive. Also, Fulcrum doesn't have powered speakers yet. Once they do, I may reevaluate. If I were to go powered with my mains, there would be an extremely limited number of speakers that would qualify, since I would require network audio input and network control...pretty much limiting me to JBL VP series as far as I know, with the Cobranet cards.
 
Re: Moved to Active/Self-Powered or stay passively powered?

Silas Pradetto said:
I rarely load my amps to the max (read: 2 ohms), and I routinely have multiple amps driving the same passband. If any amps were to fail at a show, I can easily patch some speakers around and still have the same rig up and running, albeit with a heavier load on an amp or several. The rig might even have to go mono. I don't think it's possible for many to have spare amps, especially when one of my amps costs $3000 and there is no cheaper replacement that I could use.

I've never had any component of any powered speaker fail, and I've probably owned around 50 so far (not many compared to some companies I know). And I've owned many amps - the only ones that have ever failed on me were the original, unmodified Crown IT series.

The guys at my company and I are constantly debating powered speakers vs passive, and I think I've finally decided on a solution: passive mains and powered monitors and fills. I like powered speakers' ability to plug in anywhere I need one, for a breakout room, a fill, monitor, or anything at all. The flexibility of powered is undeniable. My FOH sound systems are larger and are comprised of many more speakers, and since one amp can drive many speakers it makes sense to have the mains passive. Also, Fulcrum doesn't have powered speakers yet. Once they do, I may reevaluate. If I were to go powered with my mains, there would be an extremely limited number of speakers that would qualify, since I would require network audio input and network control...pretty much limiting me to JBL VP series as far as I know, with the Cobranet cards.
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Silas,

Did you ever get those db tech's or RCF's (forgot which coax monitor you were looking at) in yet? Thoughts?
 
Re: Moved to Active/Self-Powered or stay passively powered?

UPDATE:

I was able to demo the TT25A and it wasn't to overly impressed with it; ultimately it won't replace my QRx212.

QSC KW153 – they sounded decent, but wasn’t what I was looking for. I hit the limiters pretty quick and it was ‘brick walled’ a little too early.
Mackie HD1531 – these did get a louder than the KW153, but wasn’t loud enough.
If I was building a small bar rig for 200 people, I would pick either of these tops up. However neither these would be able replace my QRx212.

RCF NX 12SMA – these things sound AMAZING, very high fi/smooth sounding. But these might get lost as a monitor as they didn’t have the ‘rock & roll’ edge.

dB Technology DVX DM12 and DM15 – I did buy these. They are loud and will be able to cut as a ‘R&R’ wedge. These are going to be replacing my MRX512m/MRX525/XTi4000 monitor rig.
 
Re: Moved to Active/Self-Powered or stay passively powered?

Mark Lonow said:
its 2012 and all top tour rigz in the wourld use power amps but 1 .....meyer

if u want powred srx/qrx demo this box:
EAW: KF364NT
Click to expand...
And ADR Audio...
And JBLs with Drivepacks...
Not to mention D&B and L'Acoustics rigs that require you to buy their amps and distribution schemes...

Powered VS unpowered is a non issue, advantages and disadvantages with deployment, cabling, etc balance out with no winner. However, whether in the box or out of it, more and more manufacturers are going to proprietary/ semi proprietary amps and processing to assure that the boxes are powered and processed as intended, with less room for "ohm-bru" settings to muck things up.
 
Re: Moved to Active/Self-Powered or stay passively powered?

Matt Vivlamore said:
UPDATE:

I was able to demo the TT25A and it wasn't to overly impressed with it; ultimately it won't replace my QRx212.

QSC KW153 – they sounded decent, but wasn’t what I was looking for. I hit the limiters pretty quick and it was ‘brick walled’ a little too early.
Mackie HD1531 – these did get a louder than the KW153, but wasn’t loud enough.
If I was building a small bar rig for 200 people, I would pick either of these tops up. However neither these would be able replace my QRx212.

RCF NX 12SMA – these things sound AMAZING, very high fi/smooth sounding. But these might get lost as a monitor as they didn’t have the ‘rock & roll’ edge.

dB Technology DVX DM12 and DM15 – I did buy these. They are loud and will be able to cut as a ‘R&R’ wedge. These are going to be replacing my MRX512m/MRX525/XTi4000 monitor rig.
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Hello Matt, congrats on some cool boxes. Did you get to compare the DVX to the NX SMA monnitors? From I hear, they are voiced differently even though the db box uses RCF drivers. If you did, what are your thoughts?

Any luck looking for powered subs yet? Or are you staying with the 2 SRX subs?
 
Re: Moved to Active/Self-Powered or stay passively powered?

I only have one fear when I take an active rig out for any event... being dead in the water. Even if you check everything before it goes on the truck there's always the chance that something bad can happen and you loose the power amp in your speaker. Unless you have a spare- what do you do? They aren't really field repairable unless you are extremely clever. They are mostly field disposable.

With a passive system and you loose an amp there are ways to re-wire and get your system up and running- even if it means robbing a monitor mix from the band. I have a pair of active speakers that I love, but often wonder if I should order a amp unit or just a spare to be safe. What keeps me from doing it is the frequency at which I use this rig.

When I first started doing this work i used to get together with one of the guy I worked with and we used to test each other with dooms day scenarios- audio style. For instance, you go to power on the rig and the crossover is dead and you have no spare- what do you do? We were often by ourselves with a helper/hand and we had learn to be real resourceful with what we had to work with on most occasion.
 
Re: Moved to Active/Self-Powered or stay passively powered?

Kip Conner said:
I only have one fear when I take an active rig out for any event... being dead in the water. Even if you check everything before it goes on the truck there's always the chance that something bad can happen and you loose the power amp in your speaker. Unless you have a spare- what do you do? They aren't really field repairable unless you are extremely clever. They are mostly field disposable.

With a passive system and you loose an amp there are ways to re-wire and get your system up and running- even if it means robbing a monitor mix from the band. I have a pair of active speakers that I love, but often wonder if I should order a amp unit or just a spare to be safe. What keeps me from doing it is the frequency at which I use this rig.

When I first started doing this work i used to get together with one of the guy I worked with and we used to test each other with dooms day scenarios- audio style. For instance, you go to power on the rig and the crossover is dead and you have no spare- what do you do? We were often by ourselves with a helper/hand and we had learn to be real resourceful with what we had to work with on most occasion.
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Easiest way to ensure that you don't loose an amp module is to ensure that the screws holding it in are properly torqued and have the appropriate threadlocker.

Self-powered loudspeakers have no inherent difference in reliability than an externally-powered system, and have the reliability advantage that the amplifier power is well known, allowing the manufacturer to set appropriate protection to avoid damage.
 
Re: Moved to Active/Self-Powered or stay passively powered?

Robert Kenton said:
Hello Matt, congrats on some cool boxes. Did you get to compare the DVX to the NX SMA monnitors? From I hear, they are voiced differently even though the db box uses RCF drivers. If you did, what are your thoughts?

Any luck looking for powered subs yet? Or are you staying with the 2 SRX subs?
Click to expand...

As of right now I am keeping my QRx212/SRX718s/Itech rig for FOH.

They the NX 12SMA and DVX DM12 are voiced differently, both boxes do get loud (not Clair 12am loud). I thought the NX has a 'smoother' sound out of the box and the DVX has a 'rock n roll' edge. With some EQ'ing, I can tame those frequencies and not worry about feedback.
 
Re: Moved to Active/Self-Powered or stay passively powered?

Kip Conner said:
I only have one fear when I take an active rig out for any event... being dead in the water. Even if you check everything before it goes on the truck there's always the chance that something bad can happen and you loose the power amp in your speaker. Unless you have a spare- what do you do? They aren't really field repairable unless you are extremely clever. They are mostly field disposable.

With a passive system and you loose an amp there are ways to re-wire and get your system up and running- even if it means robbing a monitor mix from the band. I have a pair of active speakers that I love, but often wonder if I should order a amp unit or just a spare to be safe. What keeps me from doing it is the frequency at which I use this rig.

When I first started doing this work i used to get together with one of the guy I worked with and we used to test each other with dooms day scenarios- audio style. For instance, you go to power on the rig and the crossover is dead and you have no spare- what do you do? We were often by ourselves with a helper/hand and we had learn to be real resourceful with what we had to work with on most occasion.
Click to expand...

Everything has a chance of dying. Its just a matter of how you recover and make the rest of the show happen.
 
Re: Moved to Active/Self-Powered or stay passively powered?

Matt Vivlamore said:
UPDATE:
... RCF NX 12SMA – these things sound AMAZING, very high fi/smooth sounding. But these might get lost as a monitor as they didn’t have the ‘rock & roll’ edge.
Click to expand...
Matt, are you referring to the amazing sound of the NX12SMA as monitors or as small FOH speakers? If FOH, what subs did you hear them with?
 
Re: Moved to Active/Self-Powered or stay passively powered?

Robert Kenton said:
By any chance did you listen to any of the RCF or db tech subs?
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The only powered sub one we used for reference was the Yorkville PSA1S and LS2100P.

PSA1S - great little sub; but can easly be over driver (it does fart)
LS2100P - it's Loud and it's Big... but at 200 lbs, Yorkville needs to hit Weight Watchers (the LS2104 passive is 54lbs lighter).
 
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