Gotta pair of front loaded double 15's that need new drivers and wondering of it makes sense to reload them with current new technology drivers or toss em in the dumpster. The boxes are 3/4 birch & solid and sat in a former companies warehouse for years collecting dust but had seen duty as a drum sub for nationals back in the 80's. Currently loaded with Gauss drivers that have gone to the dark side. They are a good size for smaller stuff where I would rather not drag double 18's in for. So fire away
New drivers for double 15 front loaded boxes.
- Thread starter Chris Greco
- Start date
Re: New drivers for double 15 front loaded boxes.
Chris,
The problem you're likely going to run into is that modern 15" subwoofer drivers will overdrive that slot port well before they get in trouble themselves. If you want to turn these into useful subwoofers something a generation older like our B&C Speakers would probably give balanced performance.
Chris,
The problem you're likely going to run into is that modern 15" subwoofer drivers will overdrive that slot port well before they get in trouble themselves. If you want to turn these into useful subwoofers something a generation older like our B&C Speakers would probably give balanced performance.
Re: New drivers for double 15 front loaded boxes.
Bennett,
If port volume is an issue that could be changed by adding some PVC tubing (if thats an option) in the corners but would the effort in doing that yield a substantial enough difference to implement.
Bennett,
If port volume is an issue that could be changed by adding some PVC tubing (if thats an option) in the corners but would the effort in doing that yield a substantial enough difference to implement.
Re: New drivers for double 15 front loaded boxes.
If you were to eliminate the center port, add a center divider (which could be made from the top and bottom of the center slot port) there would be enough room for four large center diagonal ports, and an additional four more smaller ports top and bottom, enough port area for most any excursion at the tuning appropriate for the cabinet volume.
Since you are already using double 18", you might consider cutting the cabinets down so they are 1/2 the volume of your current dual 18", replacing the front panels, and use the same drivers and tuning so they can be easily integrated with the rest of your system (s).
Of course, a dual 15" does have more cone area than an 18", and if you use 15" with more Xmax than your current 18" it will outperform a single 18"...
I'd use a single 15TBW100-4 in each in a tapped horn configuration, it would put out about the same as the pair of drivers Bennett suggested, but would require more sawdust and glue, and different DSP settings... :^).
At any rate, save the trees, Baltic Birch should never go in to the land fill !
Diagonal corner ports reduce the interior volume of the cabinet compared to circular ducts for a given tuning.
If you were to eliminate the center port, add a center divider (which could be made from the top and bottom of the center slot port) there would be enough room for four large center diagonal ports, and an additional four more smaller ports top and bottom, enough port area for most any excursion at the tuning appropriate for the cabinet volume.
Since you are already using double 18", you might consider cutting the cabinets down so they are 1/2 the volume of your current dual 18", replacing the front panels, and use the same drivers and tuning so they can be easily integrated with the rest of your system (s).
Of course, a dual 15" does have more cone area than an 18", and if you use 15" with more Xmax than your current 18" it will outperform a single 18"...
I'd use a single 15TBW100-4 in each in a tapped horn configuration, it would put out about the same as the pair of drivers Bennett suggested, but would require more sawdust and glue, and different DSP settings... :^).
At any rate, save the trees, Baltic Birch should never go in to the land fill !
Re: New drivers for double 15 front loaded boxes.
Sounds like weight could also be a factor since you are looking for portable application. I have good experience with Eminence Kappalite 3015 LF, albeit in a single configuration. May be worthwhile to plug in its T&S parameters and see if it is a good fit for you.
Sounds like weight could also be a factor since you are looking for portable application. I have good experience with Eminence Kappalite 3015 LF, albeit in a single configuration. May be worthwhile to plug in its T&S parameters and see if it is a good fit for you.
Re: New drivers for double 15 front loaded boxes.
That center port will be just fine for double 15 box.
That center port will be just fine for double 15 box.
Re: New drivers for double 15 front loaded boxes.
As of now nothing, Bennett's reply gave me some hope, Arts reply took the wind out of my sail. Art, if I was going to cut the boxes in half I would entertain a new build as this was just a, " let's see if we can make something useful out of boxes that get used occasionally exercise." Art and I on an earlier occasion have discussed replacing my aging Meyer 650r2s with his Keystone offering and I need to tackle that before the summer concert season starts up. So that's where I will make sawdust and hopefully come out with some improved results.
In a perfect world I would like to throw around 1G at this little problem and hopefully come out with the best possible scenario. Current power that I am using on these are Crest CKS1600 (700@8). Maybe my fix it for 1000 is a bit ambitious but it's a goal nun the less.
The b&c tbx100's specs look great although it's a bit on the high side price wise although it's increased power handling will probably save me on the re-cone end of things in the future.
The kappalites specs look ok although doesn't have the power capacity of the b&c and doesn't go as low although for obvious reasons is more sensitive. The price is more appealing but with the lesser than specs makes sence.
Need to get through an install before I jump in with both feet but still open to suggestions.
As of now nothing, Bennett's reply gave me some hope, Arts reply took the wind out of my sail. Art, if I was going to cut the boxes in half I would entertain a new build as this was just a, " let's see if we can make something useful out of boxes that get used occasionally exercise." Art and I on an earlier occasion have discussed replacing my aging Meyer 650r2s with his Keystone offering and I need to tackle that before the summer concert season starts up. So that's where I will make sawdust and hopefully come out with some improved results.
In a perfect world I would like to throw around 1G at this little problem and hopefully come out with the best possible scenario. Current power that I am using on these are Crest CKS1600 (700@8). Maybe my fix it for 1000 is a bit ambitious but it's a goal nun the less.
The b&c tbx100's specs look great although it's a bit on the high side price wise although it's increased power handling will probably save me on the re-cone end of things in the future.
The kappalites specs look ok although doesn't have the power capacity of the b&c and doesn't go as low although for obvious reasons is more sensitive. The price is more appealing but with the lesser than specs makes sence.
Need to get through an install before I jump in with both feet but still open to suggestions.
Re: New drivers for double 15 front loaded boxes.
The cabinet dimensions happen to match two of the Keystone dimensions, if you remove the baffle and port, the folded horn path could be directly copied from the plans, just reduce the 25" interior width to the interior width of the empty cabinets.
A B&C15TBW100 would kick ass in the "slim" Keystone, the scaled down exit could be on what was the front, or on a 17" side, which would be more work but would look symmetrical.
Either way has some advantages, the larger front area would have slightly more forward projection, the smaller front, deeper depth is better for stacking on top of in multiples and gives more frontal output density potential.
I would be willing to place money that one properly powered "slim" Keystone 15TBW100 would outperform a 650r2.
They would also time/phase align with the 18" Keystone if you go that route.
Art
Chris,
The cabinet dimensions happen to match two of the Keystone dimensions, if you remove the baffle and port, the folded horn path could be directly copied from the plans, just reduce the 25" interior width to the interior width of the empty cabinets.
A B&C15TBW100 would kick ass in the "slim" Keystone, the scaled down exit could be on what was the front, or on a 17" side, which would be more work but would look symmetrical.
Either way has some advantages, the larger front area would have slightly more forward projection, the smaller front, deeper depth is better for stacking on top of in multiples and gives more frontal output density potential.
I would be willing to place money that one properly powered "slim" Keystone 15TBW100 would outperform a 650r2.
They would also time/phase align with the 18" Keystone if you go that route.
Art
Re: New drivers for double 15 front loaded boxes.
Go to the bottom of this page and look the phone number up. Give him a call with a desired Faital pro 15 you would be interested in and get a price from him. Your jaw will drop on what some of the markup is. I know this is a 18 pictured, I just posted this for the phone number. I saved a $1000 going through him over my last purchace
Faital Pro W18N8 1000 18" 1K Watt Woofer Special Deals | eBay
Go to the bottom of this page and look the phone number up. Give him a call with a desired Faital pro 15 you would be interested in and get a price from him. Your jaw will drop on what some of the markup is. I know this is a 18 pictured, I just posted this for the phone number. I saved a $1000 going through him over my last purchace
Faital Pro W18N8 1000 18" 1K Watt Woofer Special Deals | eBay
Re: New drivers for double 15 front loaded boxes.
Look at Faital's
US SPEAKER - 15" Speakers - 15" bass speakers by Eminence Speaker, JBL, EV, RCF, Beyma, Peavey, Celestion, P.Audio, Ampeg, Crate, Jensen, Fane and Pyle. Find the right 15" woofers here. 15" bass speakers & 15" guitar speakers.
Look at Faital's
US SPEAKER - 15" Speakers - 15" bass speakers by Eminence Speaker, JBL, EV, RCF, Beyma, Peavey, Celestion, P.Audio, Ampeg, Crate, Jensen, Fane and Pyle. Find the right 15" woofers here. 15" bass speakers & 15" guitar speakers.
Re: New drivers for double 15 front loaded boxes.
Oh great, I thought I was done building boxes and this pops up!.... :twisted::twisted::twisted:
Not sure I can resist.
Oh great, I thought I was done building boxes and this pops up!.... :twisted::twisted::twisted:
Not sure I can resist.
Re: New drivers for double 15 front loaded boxes.
Art,
Tempting as I wanted to do a cardioid sub array on my summer thing. Any thoughts on how to remove glued and screwed port and baffle panels gracefully?
Art,
Tempting as I wanted to do a cardioid sub array on my summer thing. Any thoughts on how to remove glued and screwed port and baffle panels gracefully?
Re: New drivers for double 15 front loaded boxes.
Putting a 2x4 on the piece to be removed can help distribute the blow and reduce "punch through".
The parts removed are seldom re-usable (other than as firewood), but the cabinet shell usually just needs a bit of wood filler.
After removing the screws, I "gracefully" remove panels starting with hammer and chisel towards the center to start breaking the glue/wood bond, then a big heavy dead blow hammer. I have used a sledge hammer before I purchased dead blow hammers, and still do for stubborn parts.
Putting a 2x4 on the piece to be removed can help distribute the blow and reduce "punch through".
The parts removed are seldom re-usable (other than as firewood), but the cabinet shell usually just needs a bit of wood filler.
Re: New drivers for double 15 front loaded boxes.
Ok one more Summer/Fall show to do and I'm back on this project. Art I was able to "somewhat gracefully" remove all the innards and have started the arduous task of removing all the staples from the critical locations inside the box. Being that the box is not as deep (20.5) as the Keystone, how shall I proceed?
Do I:
a) Biscuit an addition on to the front to add the needed depth?
b) Narrow the chamber behind the front of the box to allow the speaker to sit deeper in the box so that the magnet clears the keystone panel? If this is the plan do I reduce the 4.125" dims and the 2.875" equally to give me the magnet clearance I need?
For what its worth I was thinking on making this an 18" as opposed to a 15 as once its done its probably going to be very close to the original plan and hell if I end up going this route then I have one done already. Upon proofreading this post I realized maybe the bumping the depth with an extension is the way to go. It will give me a solid platform I need to do my A,Bing with the current double 18's. And either way if it doesn't work out I will hopefully have a solid drum sub.
This probably should be moved to DIY...
Ok one more Summer/Fall show to do and I'm back on this project. Art I was able to "somewhat gracefully" remove all the innards and have started the arduous task of removing all the staples from the critical locations inside the box. Being that the box is not as deep (20.5) as the Keystone, how shall I proceed?
Do I:
a) Biscuit an addition on to the front to add the needed depth?
b) Narrow the chamber behind the front of the box to allow the speaker to sit deeper in the box so that the magnet clears the keystone panel? If this is the plan do I reduce the 4.125" dims and the 2.875" equally to give me the magnet clearance I need?
For what its worth I was thinking on making this an 18" as opposed to a 15 as once its done its probably going to be very close to the original plan and hell if I end up going this route then I have one done already. Upon proofreading this post I realized maybe the bumping the depth with an extension is the way to go. It will give me a solid platform I need to do my A,Bing with the current double 18's. And either way if it doesn't work out I will hopefully have a solid drum sub.
This probably should be moved to DIY...
Re: New drivers for double 15 front loaded boxes.
The port area/volume per driver is about the same as this design http://bcspeakers.s3.amazonaws.com/2013/02/12/16/15/49/712/file so it may be OK with most of B&C's current drivers ... I would however suspect you would need a bigger port if you used 15SW115's
The port area/volume per driver is about the same as this design http://bcspeakers.s3.amazonaws.com/2013/02/12/16/15/49/712/file so it may be OK with most of B&C's current drivers ... I would however suspect you would need a bigger port if you used 15SW115's
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Re: New drivers for double 15 front loaded boxes.
Using a 15" driver your 22.5" x 20.5" x 45" cabinet dimensions would be fine "as is", the width becoming the 20.5" dimension. Using an 18", the box is undersized in both width and depth (the Keystone is 26.5" wide x 22.5" deep, 45" tall), but as the depth is more critical for the proper horn expansion you should add on to the front, and just copy the rest of the plans, though the Keystone exit should probably be reduced by approximately the width % reduction.
I recommend pocket screws in addition to biscuits for attaching the extension pieces.
Someone recently used some Peavey Low Riders in Keystones, and though the upper and lower response was about 5 dB more than in the BR, the 60 Hz range was only about 2 dB more. You may have similar results if you use one of the Meyer 18" as the BL (magnetic force) designed for BR is not quite up to the task of pushing a TH.
Looking forward to your results!
Art
Chris,
Using a 15" driver your 22.5" x 20.5" x 45" cabinet dimensions would be fine "as is", the width becoming the 20.5" dimension. Using an 18", the box is undersized in both width and depth (the Keystone is 26.5" wide x 22.5" deep, 45" tall), but as the depth is more critical for the proper horn expansion you should add on to the front, and just copy the rest of the plans, though the Keystone exit should probably be reduced by approximately the width % reduction.
I recommend pocket screws in addition to biscuits for attaching the extension pieces.
Someone recently used some Peavey Low Riders in Keystones, and though the upper and lower response was about 5 dB more than in the BR, the 60 Hz range was only about 2 dB more. You may have similar results if you use one of the Meyer 18" as the BL (magnetic force) designed for BR is not quite up to the task of pushing a TH.
Looking forward to your results!
Art
Re: New drivers for double 15 front loaded boxes.
Ok Art so a 15 will be the way to go with the current dimensions. Just FYI the open side of the box where the baffle and keystone panel would go is 20.5 deep. The width is 22.5, so if we trim the baffle width to 21 (3/4 Ply) and maintain the internal path clearances we should be good to go correct? I am still planning on adding the extension to the 20.5 dim for proper horn loading and magnet clearance. With the 4" overall reduction in width does the Keystone opening now become 215.93 sq in?
Got some wood to cut and handle holes to fill
Ok Art so a 15 will be the way to go with the current dimensions. Just FYI the open side of the box where the baffle and keystone panel would go is 20.5 deep. The width is 22.5, so if we trim the baffle width to 21 (3/4 Ply) and maintain the internal path clearances we should be good to go correct? I am still planning on adding the extension to the 20.5 dim for proper horn loading and magnet clearance. With the 4" overall reduction in width does the Keystone opening now become 215.93 sq in?
Got some wood to cut and handle holes to fill
Re: New drivers for double 15 front loaded boxes.
I think Art is suggesting that you rotate things 90', the 22.5" front to back dimension is more important to the performance than the width of the cab.
Sent from my iPhone
I think Art is suggesting that you rotate things 90', the 22.5" front to back dimension is more important to the performance than the width of the cab.
Sent from my iPhone