New Studiolive mixer at NAMM2016

Re: New Studiolive mixer at NAMM2016

Rob Gow said:
Allen & Heath GLD 80 $5000
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GLD80

Allen & Heath GLD AR-2412 $1250 x 2 = $2500
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GLDAR2412

Allen & Heath GLD AB168 $1000
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AB168

Total: $7,500 for 64 XLR in, granted there's a lot more outputs...

RM32AI $1800 x 2 = $3600
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SLRM32AI

CS18AI $2000
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SLCS18AI

$5600, almost $2000 cheaper for 64 channels
Click to expand...

Two entirely different things really, and not in the same class as one another. First off the GLD is a 48ch mixer, but has far superior effects, compressors, and EQs. Night and day difference in quality (I own an RM32, an SL32, and 2 GLD systems). A more fair comparison to the StudioLive series of mixers would be the Qu series by A&H, not GLD.
 
Re: New Studiolive mixer at NAMM2016

Brent Handy said:
Soundcraft...Ok. I do those as well. Compare a Performer1, you do have the ability to mix over 60 inputs, but the faders aren't near as nice, or are touch sensitive. The console faders are merely recallable, without the ability to be automated. That is a future possibility with the PreSonus. The control software for the PreSonus has been designed for touch screens. You get StudioOne integration. That is big for bands and churches wanting to record or playback tracks. Having the ability to insert plugs into the mixer of the PreSonus is a bit easier on the PreSonus, because the whole eco system was designed with that in mind out of the box.

I think the PreSonus really is more appealing to the tech savvy band or church, where the musicians have more direct control with the process.
Click to expand...
So 64 channels plus hypothetical future recording is the carrot?

If you actually need 64 channels, the GLD system is not for you, as it's a 48-channel system, but it's a far more capable and complete live desk than the Presonus product. The prices for 48 channels of GLD isn't that far off $6000 for MUCH more desk, and as far as being appealing to hands-on musicians - the GLD system has both the personal monitor mixers a la Aviom as well as the OneMix app for musicians to control their own mix. Multi-channel IO is handled by the admittedly expensive Dante card.

Being limited to a rack-mount form factor isn't an advantage when you're trying to mix 48+ channels, IMO.

What value do touch sensitive faders have for live sound?

I don't have a moral objection to the Presonus product and I certainly am happy they are apparently meeting a need, even if I don't understand it. I just, well, don't understand it, I guess. As someone in the church world - both on a weekly basis as well as event work, I can't see being productive on such a small surface and would miss the GLD's large touchscreen. Yes I know the Presonus has an app and so does the GLD, and I think mixing with it or setting the kind of parameters normally done on the built-in touchscreen is kludgy.
 
Re: New Studiolive mixer at NAMM2016

Scott Slater said:
Two entirely different things really, and not in the same class as one another. First off the GLD is a 48ch mixer, but has far superior effects, compressors, and EQs. Night and day difference in quality (I own an RM32, an SL32, and 2 GLD systems). A more fair comparison to the StudioLive series of mixers would be the Qu series by A&H, not GLD.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. Just illustrating that they are two different beasts. I wouldn't expect them to be the same, not bad bang for the buck. Personally, I already had the RM32AI so the CS18AI is a good fit. $3800 for 32channel stage box/controller/recording setup. I have no need for 64 channels, so it's a great fit for me personally. I wish I coud afford a GLD80, but it's just too much money for what I do.

A QU32 with 2 AB168 stage boxes = $4800
A RM32AI & CS18AI = $3800

TJ Cornish said:
as far as being appealing to hands-on musicians - the GLD system has both the personal monitor mixers a la Aviom as well as the OneMix app for musicians to control their own mix. Multi-channel IO is handled by the admittedly expensive Dante card.
Click to expand...

The Presonus mixers all have the QMix app as well, which give musicians control over their individual mixes, no extra hardware is required. Multitrack recording is available now, for a single RM32AI, and 64 channel recording is coming with the new firmware update.

Am I reading correctly that an Aviom setup is $800 per band member???

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/924690-REG/aviom_a360_personal_mixer.html
 
Last edited:
Re: New Studiolive mixer at NAMM2016

Rob Gow said:
Totally agree. Just illustrating that they are two different beasts. I wouldn't expect them to be the same, not bad bang for the buck. Personally, I already had the RM32AI so the CS18AI is a good fit. $3800 for 32channel stage box/controller/recording setup. I have no need for 64 channels, so it's a great fit for me personally. I wish I coud afford a GLD80, but it's just too much money for what I do.

A QU32 with 2 AB168 stage boxes = $4800
A RM32AI & CS18AI = $3800



The Presonus mixers all have the QMix app as well, which give musicians control over their individual mixes, no extra hardware is required. Multitrack recording is available now, for a single RM32AI, and 64 channel recording is coming with the new firmware update.

Am I reading correctly that an Aviom setup is $800 per band member???

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/924690-REG/aviom_a360_personal_mixer.html
Click to expand...
The GLD series is compatible with the first-gen Aviom hardware directly, and they have their ME-1 mixers which are a little cheaper: http://www.americanmusical.com/Item...2G00SRCHCAPN&gclid=CMmMxuGl8MoCFQktaQodefUPZQ

I haven't used either with my GLD systems - running monitors on the GLD surface is so easy that I can usually get folks dialed in faster than them diddling with their own boxes, not to mention the spaghetti all the extra wiring for the personal monitors becomes.

I have toyed with picking up the Dante card or cards so I can bypass the analog split and/or do multi-channel recording from the board, but I haven't needed to do that yet, as my clients haven't been that excited about it.

What percentage of the time do your clients want a multi-track mix, and how do you charge them for it and then deliver the audio? I am having trouble with a couple clients who seem to struggle with file sharing sites (not so much technically - more actually getting around to downloading 20+GB worth of video). I have debated about pre-charging them for a USB hard drive and then handing them a physical copy so I don't have to deal with the transfer later.
 
Re: New Studiolive mixer at NAMM2016

TJ Cornish said:
So 64 channels plus hypothetical future recording is the carrot?

If you actually need 64 channels, the GLD system is not for you, as it's a 48-channel system, but it's a far more capable and complete live desk than the Presonus product. The prices for 48 channels of GLD isn't that far off $6000 for MUCH more desk, and as far as being appealing to hands-on musicians - the GLD system has both the personal monitor mixers a la Aviom as well as the OneMix app for musicians to control their own mix. Multi-channel IO is handled by the admittedly expensive Dante card.

Being limited to a rack-mount form factor isn't an advantage when you're trying to mix 48+ channels, IMO.

What value do touch sensitive faders have for live sound?

I don't have a moral objection to the Presonus product and I certainly am happy they are apparently meeting a need, even if I don't understand it. I just, well, don't understand it, I guess. As someone in the church world - both on a weekly basis as well as event work, I can't see being productive on such a small surface and would miss the GLD's large touchscreen. Yes I know the Presonus has an app and so does the GLD, and I think mixing with it or setting the kind of parameters normally done on the built-in touchscreen is kludgy.
Click to expand...

Touch sensitive faders are great for live sound. Why wouldn't they be?
 
Re: New Studiolive mixer at NAMM2016

Brent Handy said:
Touch sensitive faders are great for live sound. Why wouldn't they be?
Click to expand...

I have not had any of the newer digital consoles with motorized faders try to pull them away from my fingers. My older Yamahas used to do that when you were running the Studio Manager app, because it was MIDI over USB, and if you grabbed a hand full of faders, it would sometimes bottleneck the MIDI and try to pull some or all of the faders back to their last known position(s). This was really annoying, and I ended up not using the app quite so much. Also, with the newer consoles using Ethernet, and USB2 and faster protocols this no longer seems to be an issue, and has not happened to me personally.

I think touch sensitive faders have far more advantages in the studio for writing automation and such.
 
Re: New Studiolive mixer at NAMM2016

Scott Slater said:
I have not had any of the newer digital consoles with motorized faders try to pull them away from my fingers. My older Yamahas used to do that when you were running the Studio Manager app, because it was MIDI over USB, and if you grabbed a hand full of faders, it would sometimes bottleneck the MIDI and try to pull some or all of the faders back to their last known position(s). This was really annoying, and I ended up not using the app quite so much. Also, with the newer consoles using Ethernet, and USB2 and faster protocols this no longer seems to be an issue, and has not happened to me personally.

I think touch sensitive faders have far more advantages in the studio for writing automation and such.
Click to expand...

Writing automation has nothing to do with a fader being touch sensitive. When you touch the touch sensitive fader, the controller brings to front the parameters for that channel, instead of having to push a channel or parameter's select button. It is much faster to get around.
 
Re: New Studiolive mixer at NAMM2016

To have an extra touch sensor (switch?) inside the fader that responds to touch is an extra expense, that might not be appreciated by all value conscious customers.

That said this could be handled inexpensively in software with the cheap motor-fader by recognizing when you have realized the finished fader move and release the motor control loop. The software could optionally recognize a fader change after being set and flag that for some use, or not.

JR
 
Re: New Studiolive mixer at NAMM2016

Brent Handy said:
Writing automation has nothing to do with a fader being touch sensitive. When you touch the touch sensitive fader, the controller brings to front the parameters for that channel, instead of having to push a channel or parameter's select button. It is much faster to get around.
Click to expand...

It's faster until you accidental bump another fader while reaching for a control. Once the touch sense changes the fader you think you're adjusting you may not love it so much. It is the first thing I turn off in the preferences.

Mac
 
Re: New Studiolive mixer at NAMM2016

Brent Handy said:
Writing automation has nothing to do with a fader being touch sensitive. When you touch the touch sensitive fader, the controller brings to front the parameters for that channel, instead of having to push a channel or parameter's select button. It is much faster to get around.
Click to expand...
Touch a fader, touch a select button... I don't see a speed benefit... But I do see the benefit of a non intentional selection being thwarted (mac's comment)
 
Re: New Studiolive mixer at NAMM2016

mackerr said:
It's faster until you accidental bump another fader while reaching for a control. Once the touch sense changes the fader you think you're adjusting you may not love it so much. It is the first thing I turn off in the preferences.

Mac
Click to expand...

+1

Although i used a StageTec Crescendo in a truck in LA with a nifty touch fader feature. If you have your finger on a fader and you switch layers, the fader you're touching remains on the previous control layer until you release it. I found this to be a brilliant and very intuitive feature in use. It enables you to look at another layer while your finger is on the money channel. Or to keep control over a money channel through a scene change. I wish i saw this feature on more consoles.
 
Last edited:
Re: New Studiolive mixer at NAMM2016

Shane Presley said:
Touch a fader, touch a select button... I don't see a speed benefit... (mac's comment)
Click to expand...

The benefit is touch a fader, you don't have to touch a select button. That seems like an obvious speed benefit to me!

Based on what I'm reading here, some of the critics have no experience or knowledge of what a touch sensitive fader really is! It's all new to me, too, but it sounds like a great idea and I would bet it will soon be much more common.

Does the touch sensitive feature have the option of being disabled for those who don't want it?
 
Re: New Studiolive mixer at NAMM2016

Chuck Simon said:
The benefit is touch a fader, you don't have to touch a select button. That seems like an obvious speed benefit to me!

Based on what I'm reading here, some of the critics have no experience or knowledge of what a touch sensitive fader really is! It's all new to me, too, but it sounds like a great idea and I would bet it will soon be much more common.

Does the touch sensitive feature have the option of being disabled for those who don't want it?
Click to expand...
Sorry it's not a new concept at all, but it is more expensive so unlikely to be found in price sensitive designs.

JR
 
Re: New Studiolive mixer at NAMM2016

John Roberts said:
Sorry it's not a new concept at all, but it is more expensive so unlikely to be found in price sensitive designs.

JR
Click to expand...

And I really dislike that preference. Lots of circumstances where I am riding a channel but fiddling with another.
 
Re: New Studiolive mixer at NAMM2016

Chuck Simon said:
Isn't the Studiolive a "price sensitive design"?
Click to expand...
Based on the name, they are apparently trying to straddle studio and live uses. I can see the value of touch faders for recording automation. For live use, channel select following fader would be the first thing I turn off.
 
Re: New Studiolive mixer at NAMM2016

TJ Cornish said:
Based on the name, they are apparently trying to straddle studio and live uses. I can see the value of touch faders for recording automation. For live use, channel select following fader would be the first thing I turn off.
Click to expand...

I've looked for a way to turn it off but can't find anything in the PDF. My guess is that making it optional would raise the price...
 
Top Bottom