Non X32 Digital Mixer Questions

Peter Etheredge

Sophomore
Jan 11, 2011
113
1
0
St. Charles, IL
tnprod.com
The church I'm working for is going through a renovation program/capitol campaign and technology upgrades are one of the key elements, including replacing the 12 year old Spirit Live 4-2 (ICK!) with a digital console.

Our budget is going to be around $10,000 and under (I might be able to fight for a few thousand more if the feature set is right) and despite the plethora of options now offered in this range I'm finding very few that can do what we need them to do. Mainly we want to be able to multi-track record, have a digital snake with at least 16 channels to add to the inputs up on stage (snake system is maxed out), and still have at least 12 inputs up in the booth for wireless and feeds from the new projector system. Ideally I'd like to be able to expand input capability even beyond this for future growth (one of the big reasons I'm not including the X32 in this search - I'm afraid that it will immediately be maxed out on inputs and we'll be facing the same issues we already are having come Christmas when we have a big production supported by a full band)

So far the best options seem to be either a fully expanded GLD system with a dante card (number of inputs could be a problem down the road, but it does look like it has an nice easy to use interface and I've had nothing but good experiences with its big brother iLive) or an LS9 system with dante card and SB168-es (I'm very well familiar with the LS9 and Yamaha mixers in general, although I'm not a huge fan of the work flow on this board compared to some of the new consoles that have come out over the past few years - does have a lot of inputs though).

As you can see there are pluses and minuses about each of these and therefore I'm curious about other options such as the Midas Pro1. For example, with the Pro1 is there a way to live multi-track record other than a DN9650 with a Dante card? I hate the idea of having to buy both a whole rack unit put a card just to do this. Any other mixers I'm not thinking of that would be recommended?

Thanks for the info!
 
Re: Non X32 Digital Mixer Questions

The church I'm working for is going through a renovation program/capitol campaign and technology upgrades are one of the key elements, including replacing the 12 year old Spirit Live 4-2 (ICK!) with a digital console.

Our budget is going to be around $10,000 and under (I might be able to fight for a few thousand more if the feature set is right) and despite the plethora of options now offered in this range I'm finding very few that can do what we need them to do. Mainly we want to be able to multi-track record, have a digital snake with at least 16 channels to add to the inputs up on stage (snake system is maxed out), and still have at least 12 inputs up in the booth for wireless and feeds from the new projector system. Ideally I'd like to be able to expand input capability even beyond this for future growth (one of the big reasons I'm not including the X32 in this search - I'm afraid that it will immediately be maxed out on inputs and we'll be facing the same issues we already are having come Christmas when we have a big production supported by a full band)

So far the best options seem to be either a fully expanded GLD system with a dante card (number of inputs could be a problem down the road, but it does look like it has an nice easy to use interface and I've had nothing but good experiences with its big brother iLive) or an LS9 system with dante card and SB168-es (I'm very well familiar with the LS9 and Yamaha mixers in general, although I'm not a huge fan of the work flow on this board compared to some of the new consoles that have come out over the past few years - does have a lot of inputs though).

As you can see there are pluses and minuses about each of these and therefore I'm curious about other options such as the Midas Pro1. For example, with the Pro1 is there a way to live multi-track record other than a DN9650 with a Dante card? I hate the idea of having to buy both a whole rack unit put a card just to do this. Any other mixers I'm not thinking of that would be recommended?

Thanks for the info!

I would think about 2 x x32 consoles on the cheap side, and when you have more than 32 inputs, mix your full band on one, down to two channels on a "master desk" . Or go CL5, M7, or digidesign SC48 - out to protools for recording, 48 inputs... but I believe the digital snake version would bring you more into the 25K region...
Pro 1 , you're getting into alot of fader flipping with many channels...depends on how you like to work
 
Re: Non X32 Digital Mixer Questions

That was a concern I had about the Pro 1 - we get into some pretty complex vocal/instrumental parts on some songs that require some pretty fast level changes and having too many layers might complicate that. I don't mind a few layers though - I owned a 01v96 for years and did tons of shows on it.

How would you get something like an M7 to output to tools. Again a Dante card (or something like it)?

I'd kinda like to avoid cascading consoles. We're doing that now and space is kind of a premium in the booth - even more-so with the new video computer and switcher rack going in up there in a few months.
 
Re: Non X32 Digital Mixer Questions

How would you get something like an M7 to output to tools. Again a Dante card (or something like it)?.

yeah.... drag...

I'd kinda like to avoid cascading consoles. We're doing that now and space is kind of a premium in the booth - even more-so with the new video computer and switcher rack going in up there in a few months.

space problem ?....The non master console could be... :)
 

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Re: Non X32 Digital Mixer Questions

That was a concern I had about the Pro 1 - we get into some pretty complex vocal/instrumental parts on some songs that require some pretty fast level changes and having too many layers might complicate that.

I believe that's what control groups are for. You should be able to gain the timely access to needed features with such a digital console by utilizing DCA's, POP groups, scenes, etc. Also remember that you can keep any required channels fixed in the same position across all layers.

That said, as a musician I'm old-school. If you can't play it effectively without a sound system, you need to back off a few steps and take another run at it......
 
Re: Non X32 Digital Mixer Questions

M7 (and all other desks that use the Mini-YGDAI cards) architecture only allows 16 channels per card slot, so while you can get Dante as a card option, you potentially need more than one Dante card to get more than 16 channels. Newer designs like the CL series do not have this limitation.

The GLD is very usable, and it's small surface size is one of the main reasons I bought mine. The layout of the digital snake allows you to have 16 inputs (12 XLR, 4 RCA) at FOH and 32 on stage.
 
Re: Non X32 Digital Mixer Questions

So how come a thread entitled "Non-X32 Digital Mixer Questions" has so many posts about X32's? I know some of you are excited about the desk, but there are other options out there too.
 
Re: Non X32 Digital Mixer Questions

I believe that's what control groups are for. You should be able to gain the timely access to needed features with such a digital console by utilizing DCA's, POP groups, scenes, etc. Also remember that you can keep any required channels fixed in the same position across all layers.

That said, as a musician I'm old-school. If you can't play it effectively without a sound system, you need to back off a few steps and take another run at it......

Agreed, and our 4 professional "house" musicians totally can.... the volunteer singers and instrumentalists on the other hand :p:
 
Re: Non X32 Digital Mixer Questions

M7 (and all other desks that use the Mini-YGDAI cards) architecture only allows 16 channels per card slot, so while you can get Dante as a card option, you potentially need more than one Dante card to get more than 16 channels. Newer designs like the CL series do not have this limitation.

The GLD is very usable, and it's small surface size is one of the main reasons I bought mine. The layout of the digital snake allows you to have 16 inputs (12 XLR, 4 RCA) at FOH and 32 on stage.

I can honestly say I learned something new (and very important) today. I never knew that about the older Yamaha consoles despite having used them live many times and installed a few. 16 channels of multi-track really won't cut it in this case. I assume that also means that the card for the SB will only work with 1 SB and they cannot be cascaded?

On that note (and just to cover all my bases) does anyone know if a SB168 will work with a DM2000VCM? That would give me a lot more card slots than a LS9.
 
Re: Non X32 Digital Mixer Questions

So how come a thread entitled "Non-X32 Digital Mixer Questions" has so many posts about X32's? I know some of you are excited about the desk, but there are other options out there too.

I agree, it's why I gave him CL5, M7CL, and SC-48... but then I looked at the $ that he was trying to "fit in", and gave him the X32 option...
Getting any of the afore mentioned desks, without two and a half times his budget ( unless he's buying used), won't happen...
I don't know what a GLD goes for, but it's probably going to fit his budget yes?... I personally am not an A&H fan, so I can't offer any opinions on the product - that's why it takes all kinds on here...

FWIW I have soundcraft, yamaha, midas, and now behringer in my mixer stable... it just happens to be my newest toy.
 
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Re: Non X32 Digital Mixer Questions

I can honestly say I learned something new (and very important) today. I never knew that about the older Yamaha consoles despite having used them live many times and installed a few. 16 channels of multi-track really won't cut it in this case. I assume that also means that the card for the SB will only work with 1 SB and they cannot be cascaded?

On that note (and just to cover all my bases) does anyone know if a SB168 will work with a DM2000VCM? That would give me a lot more card slots than a LS9.

Honestly Peter, I'm not an expert but I would say you should be looking at the Yamaha CL generation before you would get any "digisnake / recording friendly" options...
 
Re: Non X32 Digital Mixer Questions

I agree, it's why I gave him CL5, M7CL, and SC-48... but then I looked at the $ that he was trying to "fit in", and gave him the X32 option...
Getting any of the afore mentioned desks, without two and a half times his budget ( unless he's buying used), wont' happen...
I dont' know what a GLD goes for, but it's probably going to fit his budget yes?... I personally am not an A&H fan, so I can't offer any opinions on the product - that's why it takes all kinds on here...

FWIW I have soundcraft, yamaha, midas, and now behringer in my mixer stable... it just happens to be my newest toy.

A fully-expanded GLD will be in the vicinity of his budget from a good dealer.
 
Re: Non X32 Digital Mixer Questions

Honestly Peter, I'm not an expert but I would say you should be looking at the Yamaha CL generation before you would get any "digisnake / recording friendly" options...
+1. Stapling a digital snake on a board not designed for one is far from seamless, and usually not cost-effective.
 
Re: Non X32 Digital Mixer Questions

A fully-expanded GLD will be in the vicinity of his budget from a good dealer.

Indeed I know this and it is looking like the best, most seamless, option in our particular case.

CL series does look cool but out of budget and I am NOT a fan of strapping digi-snakes to things if it won't work smoothly, I just wanted to ask in case for some reason I was missing something - like the bit about the cards only doing 16 channels each. We have enough MacGyver-ing going on now and I aim to eliminate it completely if at all possible.
 
Re: Non X32 Digital Mixer Questions

I can honestly say I learned something new (and very important) today. I never knew that about the older Yamaha consoles despite having used them live many times and installed a few. 16 channels of multi-track really won't cut it in this case. I assume that also means that the card for the SB will only work with 1 SB and they cannot be cascaded?

On that note (and just to cover all my bases) does anyone know if a SB168 will work with a DM2000VCM? That would give me a lot more card slots than a LS9.

Just to be clear you can use multiple MY cards in a console. I just loaded up my church's M7 with 3 Dante cards last week for 48 channel record.

Similary you could use two ES cards in a LS9-32 paired with 2x SB168's to have 32 channels of digital snake. You would then need to got an Ethersound PCI card to record.

Philip
 
Re: Non X32 Digital Mixer Questions

Just to be clear you can use multiple MY cards in a console. I just loaded up my church's M7 with 3 Dante cards last week for 48 channel record.

Similary you could use two ES cards in a LS9-32 paired with 2x SB168's to have 32 channels of digital snake. You would then need to got an Ethersound PCI card to record.

Philip

I think the op was looking for BOTH solutions, recording, and digi snake... Which you've just illustrated you can't do with both of those options....
 
Re: Non X32 Digital Mixer Questions

Your needs are currently bigger than your budget unless you drop the idea of future expansion.

How many inputs do you need, how many go to record? Can you install more analog snake?
 
Re: Non X32 Digital Mixer Questions

So how come a thread entitled "Non-X32 Digital Mixer Questions" has so many posts about X32's? I know some of you are excited about the desk, but there are other options out there too.
Other options yes. Higher quality options yes. I know it's a little annoying with all the buzz going on, but I bought one as a backup/experiment and now my ls9 is for sale. It has limitations. But for peters needs, he could get 2 consoles with 2 digital snakes/per and be at $10k.
 
Re: Non X32 Digital Mixer Questions

I'm a dealer for Behringer, Presonus and Roland. I think you should take a close look at the M-200i-EXP. This would do everything you need, and give you expansion room to grow also (start with 24 local inputs plus 16 on a digital snake, then you can add more digital snake channels down the road later with a merge unit and blocks of 8x8 or 16x8 units ). This will record up to 40 channels @ 48K/24bit on a PC with a gigabit network card and sonar, or the R1000 hard disk recorder for easy recording and virtual sound checks. PM me for more info, and can send you an estimate that will fit your budget.

Declan Slater, Everlasting Sound.
 
Re: Non X32 Digital Mixer Questions

Thanks for the info everyone.

As of now the GLD is the recommendation I'm submitting because it does everything I need minus the ability to expand to beyond 48 inputs, which is still pretty darn good. Any question I can ask myself as to what would be a downside to this console cannot be answered with a negative, and now that includes the question "is there a better option". Seems like a no. Right now we're working on getting a demo to try for a Sunday.

Looking at 10 years down the road we will hopefully be at a point of just building a new and much larger space, in which time I'll fight for a budget that accordingly meets the needs of a larger space and the larger groups it can accommodate.