Phase align subs to mains

[Jay Barracato]

Re: Phase align subs to mains

FOH mixing is the glory seat, but as I have said many times, I don't see a lot of artistry in the process. I see it as a set of technical skills that can be mastered by anyone with average ears, a knowledge of how music is put together, an ability to act on information quickly, and enough attention to detail to pull an entire mix together.

When I sell my skills to a band as a band engineer, one of the biggest selling points is my experience and the fact that I can walk up to many systems of different calibers and give the band a consistent performance.

So from my point of view, the artistry is in the system tech, and the setup of the system is what ultimately decides whether my job as a mixer is easy, difficult, or impossible. The setup of the system is where most of the decisions that can compromise the final mix are made. The experience of the the system tech is key to making the decisions that lead to those compromises.

And I expect the system tech to be using the appropriate tools, like SMAART, to aid in making those decisions.

I am going to measure a system to establish a baseline. 90% of the time I am good to go and mix a show, 8% of the time i may find something I don't like or my interpretation of the measurement may be different from the system techs interpretation, then we have a basis of discussion. For the remaining 2% of the time, something is wrong, the system tech has no measurements, and we have no basis for discussion. At that point the system tech has failed me and I either have to force them to do their job or do it myself, or suffer through a horrible show.

When I take my car to the mechanic, I don't care what type of wrenches they have, but I do care that they have wrenches or what ever other specialty tool the job requires and they know how to use them.

 

[Chris Johnson]

Re: Phase align subs to mains

...When I take my car to the mechanic, I don't care what type of wrenches they have, but I do care that they have wrenches or what ever other specialty tool the job requires and they know how to use them.

Completely agree Jay.

That said, I'm of the firm opinion that doing system alignment with anything other than a properly setup TF based measurement system is like undoing bolts with a pliers: It can be done, but it's hardly the best tool for the job! The 'wrenches' in this case are Smaart, Systune, TuningCapture, SpectraFoo, etc... RTAs, audible nulling of the signal with polarity reverse, etc... these are all 'pliers'.

Sometimes all you have is pliers, and you get on with it. But If I'm being paid to sort out the system, I bring wrenches. Big-ass wrenches.

EDIT: Actually, I bring spanners. Because i'm British... God save the Queen :razz:

 

[Taylor Hall]

Re: Phase align subs to mains

One reason why people leave concerts and the world sounds like they have their ears covered with their hands is because of too loud, shows mixed by burned out engineers with way way way too much HF. Then on top of that the euro systems seem to love this extra top end to the point of adding it to the systems but that's more a matter of taste. I'll tell you this, all I want from the system is what I put into it. Then if it's harsh it's on me for mixing it that way. I don't want the subs hyped either, but that doesn't mean my sub bass won't be 24-30 dB hotter than the rest of the frequencies. I just do it on the desk, instead of the system.

I've been to my fair share of concerts that had fallen victim to the loudness war mentality of "if the crowd doesn't go out deaf, we did our job wrong". One show, however, completely threw this idea on its head and I've never heard another one like it since then. It was for a group called Justice, a pair of Frenchmen (think Daft Punk minus the robot suits and a heavy penchant for utilizing live-sampled instruments) who favored sound quality over sound level and boy did it show. They roped the tech who mixed their studio albums into running their FOH and he essentially live mixed an album each and every concert. Everything was balanced amazingly well. The highs were crisp, the mids punchy and the bass amazingly smooth and deep. Oh, and yes it was loud, but not blaring. I left the concert thinking "my word how did they even achieve that kind of sound in there" and found out a month or so later when they released their behind the scenes of the tour what they were up to.

If only every concert were like that one, I'd probably go to them a lot more often.

 

[Ivan Beaver]

Re: Phase align subs to mains

I've been to my fair share of concerts that had fallen victim to the loudness war mentality of "if the crowd doesn't go out deaf, we did our job wrong". One show, however, completely threw this idea on its head and I've never heard another one like it since then. It was for a group called Justice, a pair of Frenchmen (think Daft Punk minus the robot suits and a heavy penchant for utilizing live-sampled instruments) who favored sound quality over sound level and boy did it show. They roped the tech who mixed their studio albums into running their FOH and he essentially live mixed an album each and every concert. Everything was balanced amazingly well. The highs were crisp, the mids punchy and the bass amazingly smooth and deep. Oh, and yes it was loud, but not blaring. I left the concert thinking "my word how did they even achieve that kind of sound in there" and found out a month or so later when they released their behind the scenes of the tour what they were up to.

If only every concert were like that one, I'd probably go to them a lot more often.

I worked with a VERY POPULAR older country artist who DID NOT want it loud. He has been know to fire the sound guy from the stage in the middle of a show if he felt it was to loud.

Many people in the audience were wanting it louder (and the system could do it easily) but his FOH guy kept it very reasonable and had a great mix.

One of the issues that many people forget is how easily the ear clips!!!!

I am doing some high level testing right now and there is NO WAY you can stand it anywhere the cabinet. It sounds as if the drivers are all shreaded. And it HURTS REALLY BAD!

But put on some hearing protection-go into my office and shut the door and it sounds fine (just a little bit dull).

But "magically" the drivers don't sound as if they are blown anymore.

YES it can get to loud and your ear cannot stand it.