Presonus 32.4.2Al

Re: Presonus 32.4.2Al

Why does every mixer discussion have to turn into a sales pitch for the X32? We've heard it all! Did you read the title of this thread?

I wasn't trying to sell the X32. Is it not reasonable to compare Presonus's new offering to its direct competition? Wouldn't that competition include the X32 and the Si Expression?

Why does any mention of the X32 bother people anyway? I can't help but notice that no one is complaining that someone brought up the new Soundcraft mixer in this thread.... only the mention of the X32.
 
Re: Presonus 32.4.2Al

I wasn't trying to sell the X32. Is it not reasonable to compare Presonus's new offering to its direct competition? Wouldn't that competition include the X32 and the Si Expression?

Yes and no.

The SLive boards are (or should be considered to be) aimed a bit differently. A fair comparison would be toward the other SLive offerings or to analog desks with accompanying multi-track/DAW platforms. It is compared to digital offerings with full scene recall, motorized faders and, in some cases, off-line editing. This is not really a good thing as it (SLive) is by definition a different animal and "lacking" those features.

The fact is, some people do not need or want all the bells and whistles when they're just excess capacity and complexity. The SLive makes no pretensions to being a fancy event production console or theater console. The folks who need and want the express feature set incorporated into the SLive will be more than happy with it.

Don't dis the family van because it's not a sports car........and stop trying to compare the two. They're different animals.
 
Re: Presonus 32.4.2Al

Yes and no.

The SLive boards are (or should be considered to be) aimed a bit differently. A fair comparison would be toward the other SLive offerings or to analog desks with accompanying multi-track/DAW platforms. It is compared to digital offerings with full scene recall, motorized faders and, in some cases, off-line editing. This is not really a good thing as it (SLive) is by definition a different animal and "lacking" those features.

The fact is, some people do not need or want all the bells and whistles when they're just excess capacity and complexity. The SLive makes no pretensions to being a fancy event production console or theater console. The folks who need and want the express feature set incorporated into the SLive will be more than happy with it.

Don't dis the family van because it's not a sports car........and stop trying to compare the two. They're different animals.
Hey Dick,

What I have seen the vast majority of SL's in my neck of the woods being used for is small bands, most of which were mixed from stage (16.4.2).

The price range of the 24.4.2 is in the same ball park as the X32 and Soundcraft Expression Si (while the 32.4.2 is more expensive).

So with respect to market usage, and market price range, I disagree. The StudioLive is a direct competitor to the X32 and the Si.

Now as far as who the StudioLive may appeal to (despite its lack of features compared to the other 2 offerings mentioned), I can see a niche market for people that are used to analog mixers but want to make the jump to digital.

I have spent some time actually getting to know both mixers and I would say without a doubt that the SL was much easier for me to learn.

Both mixers have the ability to do what I really want most from a digital mixer (the ability to record a run of a song, then mix it after the fact and save the scene for live use). The big problem with the Presonus is .... it just doesn't sound as good as the X32 (I haven't played with the Si yet). The vocal efx on the X32 are quite a bit better than on the SL. For me, that is a big deal. If I am going to give up my TC Electronics M-OneXL, I need built in efx that sound just as good.

There is also a pretty large deficit of features, but I don't think I even want to argue that point. You are correct. Most of the bands I know using the SL today don't need any more features for what they do.

I don't think this is a case of a Mini Van and a Sports Car since I believe that the target market is the same.
 
Re: Presonus 32.4.2Al

We provided a Yammy M7 for a small festival who hired another firm that brought a SL24 for the local acts. The M7 was for the nationals that needed more inputs and more aux mixes than the SL provided.

The production co. had an issue at the stage end of the snake, so I offered to mix/babysit the support act that was about to perform. I guess my familiarity with other brands of digital mixers was a handicap for my use of the SL. I found it mostly non-intuitive from either an analog or digital platform perspective. As the band had begun playing when I started 'mixing', I didn't want to make too may wild guesses about navigating the console. The whole "you can walk up to it and mix" thing strikes me as a potential myth if you want to do more than simply push faders.... and Presonus isn't the only guilty party there.

My favorite brand for "plug it in and it works" digital mixing is Yamaha. Not intuitive if you want/need to change configuration settings, but if you hook up the outputs labeled Left & Right to a PA, plug a mic into input 1, turn up the trim until you see some blinking green or yellow lights, all you need to do is bring up the faders to hear the mic. This is true across almost all their mixers until you get to the top of the line.

With any digital mixer, the devil is in the configuration details... X32, LS9, StudioLive, Pro 1.... all present their respective manufacturer's take on signal architecture, nomenclature and UI design. Yamaha even manages to confuse things within their own brand.
 
Re: Presonus 32.4.2Al

How about that new Studiolive?

"What you need is an X32"


How does the new Roland mixer sound?

"What you need is an X32"



Hi I want to buy a kick drum mic.


"What you need is an X32"


Jesus. We get it. You like the X32.
 
Re: Presonus 32.4.2Al

With any digital mixer, the devil is in the configuration details... X32, LS9, StudioLive, Pro 1.... all present their respective manufacturer's take on signal architecture, nomenclature and UI design. Yamaha even manages to confuse things within their own brand.

It is the nature of digital hardware interfaces to try to get multiple uses out of physical controls as they are relatively expensive in cost and real estate.

There is no single intuitive way to make a single control do multiple tricks in different contexts, so this comes down to what you learned on first as being simple or obvious for you.

While virtual controls using projection or VR glasses, could replicate a full large analog console interface, but that is only an acceptable solution for oldsters who know how to operate large analog consoles. Who knows what will be the ideal interface for the youths coming up behind them (gameboy IV)?

I can only predict more change not less as optimal interfaces for digital consoles probably should evolve away from mimicing analog consoles, just to keep the old farts (who spend the big ticket money) quiet. As price points become lower and more accessible to the masses, the old school design constraints will fade away too.

JR
 
Re: Presonus 32.4.2Al

It is the nature of digital hardware interfaces to try to get multiple uses out of physical controls as they are relatively expensive in cost and real estate.

There is no single intuitive way to make a single control do multiple tricks in different contexts, so this comes down to what you learned on first as being simple or obvious for you.

While virtual controls using projection or VR glasses, could replicate a full large analog console interface, but that is only an acceptable solution for oldsters who know how to operate large analog consoles. Who knows what will be the ideal interface for the youths coming up behind them (gameboy IV)?

I can only predict more change not less as optimal interfaces for digital consoles probably should evolve away from mimicing analog consoles, just to keep the old farts (who spend the big ticket money) quiet. As price points become lower and more accessible to the masses, the old school design constraints will fade away too.

JR
Well put.

I am relatively confident that tablet control is going to take over the small weekend warrior rigs .... and relatively quickly. When I first started thinking about products like the DL1608 and X32 Rack (Line 6 also has a new offering like this), the idea of not having physical inputs seemed really crazy (not for anyone who was serious). I am warming up to it as I can see lots of advantages to the workflow that it implies.

I am not a spring chicken myself (47), but like to stay up-to-date with technology.

I have been following the StudioLive for the last couple of years and was going to replace my MixWiz with a 16.4.2 .... mostly because of the ability to remix recordings, and mix from stage via tablet.

I spent some time at GC learning the layout, and mixed a gig for a friend on one. I likely would have pulled the trigger last year, but the need for a firewire (or if you want to be safe, apple laptop) interface as well as the need for an iPad for remote mixing (as well as a wireless bridge), made the choice less than a slam dunk. The sound of the efx engine didn't help either.

Unlike Tim, I picked up on the "Fat Channel" idea quickly (I didn't use any subgroups, but they were pretty easy to setup and use). The first time I tried to setup an X32 ..... I found myself on YouTube repeatedly to figure things out.

As an example, the channel eq. With the SL, you get dedicated knobs for each band. With the X32, you have to select a band, then modify parameters on each band. The X32 is by far the more powerful and flexible channel eq, but if you are used to a single channel strip analog layout, the SL more closely resembles this (a casual look at the Si seems to show that it is more like this too). I know that I have issues with explaining to people why my MixWiz has so many knobs on its channel eq since most musicians only know (low, mid, hi). Attempting to explain the X32 channel strip would leave them rubbing their heads in confusion.

I come from a different point of view from most of you. I don't run sound for a living, sound is something I have to do to gig out. Most of the people I know that do sound, do their own band's sound and nothing else. Only a few of them have a dedicated soundman to mix for them.... and those that do, have the board on or near stage (vs out front with a snake). I have a 100ft snake that I haven't used for 5 years. It is just too much trouble, and there is rarely any place to put it in the bar.

Jesus. We get it. You like the X32.

Yes, I do Rob, but that is hardly the topic. If you would like me to list my reasons for liking the X32, perhaps we should start another thread.

The 32.4.2AI is going to live in a competitive environment against the X32, Si, and likely the new digital A&H mixer. It is completely relevant to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of the 32.4.2AI within its market segment.

I fail to see any productive information in your post.
 
Re: Presonus 32.4.2Al

"I fail to see any productive information in your post."

Now there is the defintion of the word "irony". After six pages of a thread requesting info about the SL32.4.2, we have discovered "The StudioLive is a direct competitor to the X32 and the Si". I don't know about the rest of you but I really feel informed!
 
Re: Presonus 32.4.2Al

So what you are saying is that when discussing a specific mixer like the 32.4.2AI, no one should mention any of the competition or how the product stacks up to that competition?

Why don't you make a case for the 32.4.2AI instead of complaining about me or anyone else daring to mention another product.

@Chuck,

I think there is quite a bit of useful information in this thread. Sadly, your last post isn't one of them.

Back to the 32.4.2AI..... and when are we expected to see these in the store?

I have a feeling that the software and DSP may have been improved since the new board is touting more powerful processing. I would like to be able to hear one at GC to see if the efx have improved from the 16.4.2. It will also be interesting to see how well the ethernet implementation is. This was one area where the StudioLive lacked greatly compared to the newer crop of digital mixers (oh my God ..... there it is again .... I mentioned other boards!).

I further wonder if Presonus is going to release a refresh to the 16.0.2, 16.4.2 and 24.4.2 to include integrated ethernet. This would be fairly easy for them as would improving the internal efx. Throw in an android app for remote mixing and monitor mixing, and the StudioLive series may be a decent competitor .... if they also cut the price some.

It seems to me that if you want that "analog feel", that the Soundcraft offering is a better deal (oops! There's another reference to another product).
 
Re: Presonus 32.4.2Al

So what you are saying is that when discussing a specific mixer like the 32.4.2AI, no one should mention any of the competition or how the product stacks up to that competition?

No. What's being said is that nobody is interested in your take on this thread and that continuing to argue about what should or shouldn't be in the thread is tedious and reinforces the old adage about the definition of insanity being to endlessly repeat an action expecting eventually to get a different result.
 
Re: Presonus 32.4.2Al

So maybe those that "do sound" would prefer the SL. That has been my observation. Myself, I mix, so I prefer more flexibility and features. They are still called mixers.
 
Re: Presonus 32.4.2Al

So maybe those that "do sound" would prefer the SL. That has been my observation. Myself, I mix, so I prefer more flexibility and features. They are still called mixers.

Maybe so. I think what would be more accurate would be to say that those that are more comfortable with an analog layout would prefer either the SL or the Si vs something like the X32 or an LS9.

No. What's being said is that nobody is interested in your take on this thread and that continuing to argue about what should or shouldn't be in the thread is tedious and reinforces the old adage about the definition of insanity being to endlessly repeat an action expecting eventually to get a different result.

If you aren't interested, then quit responding to my posts. Do you or Rob represent everyone else in the world who posts on this forum? Am I violating some rule by posting my opinion?

I know, I know. Damn that freedom of speech thing. It sure does become inconvenient sometimes doesn't it?
 
Re: Presonus 32.4.2Al

While virtual controls using projection or VR glasses, could replicate a full large analog console interface, but that is only an acceptable solution for oldsters who know how to operate large analog consoles. Who knows what will be the ideal interface for the youths coming up behind them (gameboy IV)?

I can only predict more change not less as optimal interfaces for digital consoles probably should evolve away from mimicing analog consoles, just to keep the old farts (who spend the big ticket money) quiet. As price points become lower and more accessible to the masses, the old school design constraints will fade away too.
I agree and the challenge with products in the StudioLive/X32/Roland/LS9/Si range is that you have a wide variety of potential users, some coming from years of mixing live sound on analog consoles, some with experience on DAWs and in the studio and some with little or no mix experience but plenty of experience with computers, tablets, gaming, etc. Trying to find a user interface that is viable for all is definitely a 'best fit' compromise and the best fit may not only vary from one situation to another but will also probably continue to evolve.

Of course the other side is that there are still analog consoles out there and it seems to be getting increasingly common in some markets to find people that say they have mixing experience but who have never used an analog console and are totally unprepared when they encounter one.
 
Re: Presonus 32.4.2Al

If you aren't interested, then quit responding to my posts. Do you or Rob represent everyone else in the world who posts on this forum? Am I violating some rule by posting my opinion?

I know, I know. Damn that freedom of speech thing. It sure does become inconvenient sometimes doesn't it?

Scott,

A few things here. First, this site is not run by the government, so you have no reasonable expectation of free speech. Your speech on this site is moderated by what I find interesting and enjoyable. At the end of the day I am answerable to the community, who are the true owners of this site, but mostly I don't get a big reaction when I am forced to be stern so I am not worried about expressing my opinion. Fortunately for you, I believe in moderation in all things - including moderation.

Point the second, you are being an asshole. You have wrecked several pages of this thread by arguing that it should be about what you think it should be about. The title makes what the thread is about pretty clear IMHO. If you want to talk about other mixers, there's damn well plenty of threads about your favorite that you can go participate in.

Thirdly, Rob Gow, John Chiara, and everyone else in this thread you have been verbally assaulting do, in fact, represent a healthy chunk of the ideals that propel this forum. They have all been here since it started, and have been my friends and associates for years before that - some since the very beginning of my audio career. They have given back to this site with their time, words, kindness, and even their wallets to make it what it is today. Without many of the posters on this forum I would not be where I am today either. You, on the other hand, have popped up out of nowhere and acted like you own the place. You don't. If you wish to continue to participate in this thread do not mention any digital mixer not made by Presonus again. If you wish to continue to participate in this site get your ego in check and understand that learning is a two way street, and learning is why we are all here.
 
Re: Presonus 32.4.2Al

Scott,

A few things here. First, this site is not run by the government, so you have no reasonable expectation of free speech. Your speech on this site is moderated by what I find interesting and enjoyable. At the end of the day I am answerable to the community, who are the true owners of this site, but mostly I don't get a big reaction when I am forced to be stern so I am not worried about expressing my opinion. Fortunately for you, I believe in moderation in all things - including moderation.

Point the second, you are being an asshole. You have wrecked several pages of this thread by arguing that it should be about what you think it should be about. The title makes what the thread is about pretty clear IMHO. If you want to talk about other mixers, there's damn well plenty of threads about your favorite that you can go participate in.

Thirdly, Rob Gow, John Chiara, and everyone else in this thread you have been verbally assaulting do, in fact, represent a healthy chunk of the ideals that propel this forum. They have all been here since it started, and have been my friends and associates for years before that - some since the very beginning of my audio career. They have given back to this site with their time, words, kindness, and even their wallets to make it what it is today. Without many of the posters on this forum I would not be where I am today either. You, on the other hand, have popped up out of nowhere and acted like you own the place. You don't. If you wish to continue to participate in this thread do not mention any digital mixer not made by Presonus again. If you wish to continue to participate in this site get your ego in check and understand that learning is a two way street, and learning is why we are all here.
Bennett,

First,
If you believe that I am violating the rules of these forums, then by all means.... ban me.

Second,
If this forum is moderated by people that everyone must agree with (and their close friends), then it likely isn't a good place for me or many others like me.

Third,
Point the second, you are being an asshole.

Personal attacks are generally against the rules on all major forums Forum moderators are generally considered the epitome of courtesy. I note that in your forum->FAQ->Rules, you make a very good case for forum members to make donations. I have frequently given donations to the forums that I routinely use for exactly the reasons you mention. Calling new users names and censuring them for disagreeing with more seasoned members is not a great way to grow your user base or motivate these new users to donate.

Finally,
It is not my intention to post simply to be an agitation to you or anyone else. It is my opinion that open communication between professionals is a good thing. If that is what you are really attempting to do with this forum, then it would be a mistake for you to ban me simply because I disagree with several of the more senior members of the site.

If you wish to continue to participate in this thread do not mention any digital mixer not made by Presonus again.
You can't really believe that this is a reasonable request can you? I would imagine that there isn't a single X32 thread in existence on the web that does not mention Presonus. There are several other members who have posted information and useful comparisons of many other mixers in this market. If you simply want me gone, just do it. Don't pretend that it is because I am violating some forum guideline. I am sure that others that are following this thread will be interested in your actions.

Thanks for your time and attention.
 
Re: Presonus 32.4.2Al

Surely you are smart enough to understand the concept of stopping digging when you find yourself in a hole.

We get that you value your own opinion highly. Most of us feel the same about our own..

While you may get an impression from the amount of Behringer posts here that this is fan boy forum it isn't. Mostly actual sound professionals when you discount all the newbies who joined to hang out with Uli.

This is Bennet's forum so his requests are not really requests, and do not need to be reasonable.

You seem like a smart guy, consider listening more and arguing less, especially with the guy who runs the forum, which will not end well.

JR

PS: I learned while I was in basic training that just because I was sure I was right, didn't mean I would win any arguments with the drill sergeant.
 
Re: Presonus 32.4.2Al

Surely you are smart enough to understand the concept of stopping digging when you find yourself in a hole.

We get that you value your own opinion highly. Most of us feel the same about our own..

While you may get an impression from the amount of Behringer posts here that this is fan boy forum it isn't. Mostly actual sound professionals when you discount all the newbies who joined to hang out with Uli.

This is Bennet's forum so his requests are not really requests, and do not need to be reasonable.

You seem like a smart guy, consider listening more and arguing less, especially with the guy who runs the forum, which will not end well.

JR

PS: I learned while I was in basic training that just because I was sure I was right, didn't mean I would win any arguments with the drill sergeant.

I served for 6 years myself, and my hat is off to anyone else who served.

John, this simply might not be the right forum for me. I am waiting to see.
 
Re: Presonus 32.4.2Al

I served for 6 years myself, and my hat is off to anyone else who served.
I was drafted and went kicking and screaming... but yes the troops deserve respect from the public they serve, something my generation (Viet Nam era) did not get.
John, this simply might not be the right forum for me. I am waiting to see.

It's pretty much up to you... Good luck.

JR