I think have my console choices down. I see about 6-8 B.e.s a year so the rest of time it's me mixing... They seem to be semi equal in price so, in your opinion... Who's got the edge and why?
Sc48. Vs Sd9
- Thread starter Shane Presley
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Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
SD9.
More inputs, more outputs, better sonically, more flexible layout options.
I'm not sure, when you go to the SC48 remote option do you take all the I/O cards out of the desk and put it into the remote rack? That would leave you with almost no local I/O. The SD9 has more.
I'm also not sure about the SC48 remote option, but can you install a MADI card into the desk? If not, that limits your recording options to 32 channels over FireWire while the Digico will allow you to record more over its MADI port.
SD9.
More inputs, more outputs, better sonically, more flexible layout options.
I'm not sure, when you go to the SC48 remote option do you take all the I/O cards out of the desk and put it into the remote rack? That would leave you with almost no local I/O. The SD9 has more.
I'm also not sure about the SC48 remote option, but can you install a MADI card into the desk? If not, that limits your recording options to 32 channels over FireWire while the Digico will allow you to record more over its MADI port.
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
I'm for the SC48. The new venue software is pretty awesome. Plenty of plug in power, 64 inputs, 24 aux outputs + 8 matrices + L/R/M + PQ's. The new digital stage box is pretty cool too... Remember, you can do any card configuration you want. So, you can have all your I/O in the box on stage, you can have some of it at FOH, whatever you want. The SC48 sounds good, and more people know how to use it.
However, I'd also strongly advise you look at the Midas Pro 2 as well. It blows both the SD9 and SC48 out of the water sonically, and is only a few $$ more.
Evan
I'm for the SC48. The new venue software is pretty awesome. Plenty of plug in power, 64 inputs, 24 aux outputs + 8 matrices + L/R/M + PQ's. The new digital stage box is pretty cool too... Remember, you can do any card configuration you want. So, you can have all your I/O in the box on stage, you can have some of it at FOH, whatever you want. The SC48 sounds good, and more people know how to use it.
However, I'd also strongly advise you look at the Midas Pro 2 as well. It blows both the SD9 and SC48 out of the water sonically, and is only a few $$ more.
Evan
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
No PQs on an SC48 I'm afraid. Just 8 Matrixes.
Not sure how it is in the US, but in the UK the sd9 with 2 D-Racks is cheaper than a stock SC48, letalone the remote version. Im sure in the US, the SD9 is cheaper than an remote SC48?
And regarding plugins, dont forget you can get the waves kit for the SD9 which gives you plugin options, not to mention the channel processing is more complete anyway (tube emulation, dynamic EQ, multiband comp, etc...)
Here is why i think the SD9 is better:
1) Much more flexible I/O. 3 MADI ports (2 cat5, 1 BNC) each supporting 56x56 means stacks of options.
2) More flexible surface. The big screen, freely assignable faders and 8 banks of 12 mean it can be configured anyway you like.
3) More flexible bussing: Bigger matrix mixer, freely assignable buss structure and flat routing (channel - channel, group - group) mean it will handle a variety of shows easily.
4) More expandability: Doing a bigger one-off? Hire in a monitor board and do a digital split with gain tracking. Or hire a bigger FOH board from Digico and use the same racks and show file.
It seems to me the OP is not overly concerned about rider friendliness, and so that doesnt really come into my vote.
The Midas is an interesting product. I wouldnt agree that it blows everything else out of the water in sound quality, but it is certainly as good as anything else out there. The thing is that it has the least busses, least channels, and although its 'cheap' in a basic configuration, every expansion is very very expensive.
I have had them out on the road and loved them, but i'm not sure i'd own one unless someone (a BE) made me...
No PQs on an SC48 I'm afraid. Just 8 Matrixes.
Not sure how it is in the US, but in the UK the sd9 with 2 D-Racks is cheaper than a stock SC48, letalone the remote version. Im sure in the US, the SD9 is cheaper than an remote SC48?
And regarding plugins, dont forget you can get the waves kit for the SD9 which gives you plugin options, not to mention the channel processing is more complete anyway (tube emulation, dynamic EQ, multiband comp, etc...)
Here is why i think the SD9 is better:
1) Much more flexible I/O. 3 MADI ports (2 cat5, 1 BNC) each supporting 56x56 means stacks of options.
2) More flexible surface. The big screen, freely assignable faders and 8 banks of 12 mean it can be configured anyway you like.
3) More flexible bussing: Bigger matrix mixer, freely assignable buss structure and flat routing (channel - channel, group - group) mean it will handle a variety of shows easily.
4) More expandability: Doing a bigger one-off? Hire in a monitor board and do a digital split with gain tracking. Or hire a bigger FOH board from Digico and use the same racks and show file.
It seems to me the OP is not overly concerned about rider friendliness, and so that doesnt really come into my vote.
The Midas is an interesting product. I wouldnt agree that it blows everything else out of the water in sound quality, but it is certainly as good as anything else out there. The thing is that it has the least busses, least channels, and although its 'cheap' in a basic configuration, every expansion is very very expensive.
I have had them out on the road and loved them, but i'm not sure i'd own one unless someone (a BE) made me...
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
Personally the SD9s GUI is enough of a turn off for me. It took too long to get familiar with the desk. No one will complain about the "sound" but I had to think about the desk way too much, Id rather be looking at the stage.
Personally the SD9s GUI is enough of a turn off for me. It took too long to get familiar with the desk. No one will complain about the "sound" but I had to think about the desk way too much, Id rather be looking at the stage.
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
I'll also put in a vote for the Pro2, I just took one of ours (Indigo's) out for the first time. It was awesome. That desk has a sound and feel to it that is unlike the rest in and out of its price range. But I guess I am biased...
I'll also put in a vote for the Pro2, I just took one of ours (Indigo's) out for the first time. It was awesome. That desk has a sound and feel to it that is unlike the rest in and out of its price range. But I guess I am biased...
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
Chekcing out the pro2 - and I was going to download the offline editor to take a peek around... Looks like it's mac support only, or am I mistaken. I guess the ole mac v s pc axe is swinging the other way. If i was to entertain a pro 2, I guess I need to tack on another 2K to buy a mac?... hmmmm
Chekcing out the pro2 - and I was going to download the offline editor to take a peek around... Looks like it's mac support only, or am I mistaken. I guess the ole mac v s pc axe is swinging the other way. If i was to entertain a pro 2, I guess I need to tack on another 2K to buy a mac?... hmmmm
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
FWIW. I've never had a digital console fail before a show execpt this week when a Digico SD8 died 24 mins before showtime. I hope that this was a one-time experience, but for that reason I will take some time and experience before I ever trust a Digico console again.
FWIW. I've never had a digital console fail before a show execpt this week when a Digico SD8 died 24 mins before showtime. I hope that this was a one-time experience, but for that reason I will take some time and experience before I ever trust a Digico console again.
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
What happened exactly, Helge?
I've toured countless shows with Digico consoles (D1, D5, SD7, SD8) and have never had such a failure happen. I've even had early versions of software and early versions of consoles out on the road without such an issue. That's not to say that failures don't happen as I've had issues on many different digital consoles. In all that though, I've never had any manufacturer's console completely just bail on me.
What happened exactly, Helge?
I've toured countless shows with Digico consoles (D1, D5, SD7, SD8) and have never had such a failure happen. I've even had early versions of software and early versions of consoles out on the road without such an issue. That's not to say that failures don't happen as I've had issues on many different digital consoles. In all that though, I've never had any manufacturer's console completely just bail on me.
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
I've seen a yamaha 5D fail (a long time ago, can't remember the exact circumstances). I think all digital consoles are subject to fail at some point however if you're using gear from the top shelf, and the gear has been maintained well, and hard drives (if applicable) have been replaced every few years, the risks have been minimised.
Andrew
I've seen a yamaha 5D fail (a long time ago, can't remember the exact circumstances). I think all digital consoles are subject to fail at some point however if you're using gear from the top shelf, and the gear has been maintained well, and hard drives (if applicable) have been replaced every few years, the risks have been minimised.
Andrew
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
I did a quick soundcheck with the band and everything was fine. While in the process of programming pre/post auxes on a couple of channels, setting up control groups etc. as people walked in after SC, a error message appeared on the main screen wich I couln't press ok on and the console dumped channel 1-12. No audio in headphones(we weren't playing any walk in music, can't say anything about L/R), lost all text in channel lcd's, couldn't access anything on the main screen. If I tried pressing anything on the screen it just said "beep". Cycling layers on 1-12 didn't bring up anything in the channel LCDs. After a lenghty reboot and some quick reprogramming og control groups, the show went on as planned with 2 mins to spare.
I did a quick soundcheck with the band and everything was fine. While in the process of programming pre/post auxes on a couple of channels, setting up control groups etc. as people walked in after SC, a error message appeared on the main screen wich I couln't press ok on and the console dumped channel 1-12. No audio in headphones(we weren't playing any walk in music, can't say anything about L/R), lost all text in channel lcd's, couldn't access anything on the main screen. If I tried pressing anything on the screen it just said "beep". Cycling layers on 1-12 didn't bring up anything in the channel LCDs. After a lenghty reboot and some quick reprogramming og control groups, the show went on as planned with 2 mins to spare.
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
One thing I like to familiarize myself with on any digital console is the "oh shit" procedure. On the Digico there are two keyboard shortcuts that either reset the surface or reset the engine (resetting the engine interrupts audio). Maybe a surface reset would have gotten you around whatever happened. Additionally, it's good to know that on the Digico the touchscreen controller runs within the console software. That means that if there is a windows issue and an error comes up, you need to use the mouse to click OK.
One thing I like to familiarize myself with on any digital console is the "oh shit" procedure. On the Digico there are two keyboard shortcuts that either reset the surface or reset the engine (resetting the engine interrupts audio). Maybe a surface reset would have gotten you around whatever happened. Additionally, it's good to know that on the Digico the touchscreen controller runs within the console software. That means that if there is a windows issue and an error comes up, you need to use the mouse to click OK.
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
In all fairness, I've killed just about every digital console on the market at least once.
Digidesign:
SC48- Up to 3 deaths: Killed a hard drive, Killed the whole left side of the console, and Killed a DSP card.
Profile- Locked up a whole mix rack(reboot solved it)
Yamaha:
M7- Killed the touch screen mid set
Midas:
Pro 6- Locked up the whole console twice(once mid show, once pre show)
Soundcraft:
vi6- Locked up the surface, still passed audio (Finished the set with no control of anything!), Crashed the console twice.
Digico:
SD7- Crashed this guy the first time I used it!
And that's all I can think of right now...
Evan
In all fairness, I've killed just about every digital console on the market at least once.
Digidesign:
SC48- Up to 3 deaths: Killed a hard drive, Killed the whole left side of the console, and Killed a DSP card.
Profile- Locked up a whole mix rack(reboot solved it)
Yamaha:
M7- Killed the touch screen mid set
Midas:
Pro 6- Locked up the whole console twice(once mid show, once pre show)
Soundcraft:
vi6- Locked up the surface, still passed audio (Finished the set with no control of anything!), Crashed the console twice.
Digico:
SD7- Crashed this guy the first time I used it!
And that's all I can think of right now...
Evan
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
Well there is another line of business for you. In addition to your "subwoofer testing" you can now offer console testing to the manufacturers ! <grin>
andrew
Well there is another line of business for you. In addition to your "subwoofer testing" you can now offer console testing to the manufacturers ! <grin>
andrew
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
My vote is to not buy a new console.
Assuming maximum of 8 shows per year where you need a rider acceptable console, why bother owning? What you have right now does the job most of the time.......
Not the 'fun' answer, but consoles rarely are great in terms of ROI, with rare exception.
My vote is to not buy a new console.
Assuming maximum of 8 shows per year where you need a rider acceptable console, why bother owning? What you have right now does the job most of the time.......
Not the 'fun' answer, but consoles rarely are great in terms of ROI, with rare exception.
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
I love how the console won't recognize a newly plugged-in mouse once there is an error displayed on the screen :roll:.
I have had VERY little Digico-contact but even I have been involved in situations where SD8s have gone down
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I love how the console won't recognize a newly plugged-in mouse once there is an error displayed on the screen :roll:.
I have had VERY little Digico-contact but even I have been involved in situations where SD8s have gone down
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Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
Glad to have you around
But it's more of future proofing my sound co... Right now I have a 32 ch digital option ( ls9) which obviously is not big boy friendly so I'm looking to add that piece that is... You're right though, maybe now is not yet the right time...
Jeff. You're always the "sane" voice in my head.
Glad to have you around
But it's more of future proofing my sound co... Right now I have a 32 ch digital option ( ls9) which obviously is not big boy friendly so I'm looking to add that piece that is... You're right though, maybe now is not yet the right time...
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
Main thing to look at is what do the other providers in the area have. No harm in sub renting whatever you purchase out to another regional and vice versa. In terms of easiest to accept, SC48 is still out there a lot more in the wilds then the Digico (although I have started to see more and more of them). As far as my personal preference goes I actually really like the AH iLives. Not too bad to get around on, sound really great and not too bad of a learning curve as far as the GUI goes.
All else fails, something decent that is steam powered will always get the job done very nicely.
See you in a couple weeks.
Main thing to look at is what do the other providers in the area have. No harm in sub renting whatever you purchase out to another regional and vice versa. In terms of easiest to accept, SC48 is still out there a lot more in the wilds then the Digico (although I have started to see more and more of them). As far as my personal preference goes I actually really like the AH iLives. Not too bad to get around on, sound really great and not too bad of a learning curve as far as the GUI goes.
All else fails, something decent that is steam powered will always get the job done very nicely.
See you in a couple weeks.
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
One piece of gear does not future proof your company... and who knows what is the "right" console for the BE du jour..... this will change every time the next tradeshow rolls around.
IMHO the time to buy a varsity level console is when you are either saying "this is crazy, I'm cross-renting ALL THE TIME", or when you are in a scenario where you are CERTAIN that owning that particular piece of gear is going to bring you new business (I used that one when I owned SC48 in its very early days when it was a hot commodity, but I sold it once the market became saturated with them, knowing that I would no longer be "the only game in town" so to speak - a very wise move in hindsight). As you know, I no longer own a large format console, and have no plans to in the near future.
Let's say you spend $500 to rent a console, including pickup/delivery cost. Multiply by your current 8 times per year and that's 3K. At this rate, you need to be renting EVERY WEEK all year to accumulate to the cost range of the consoles you are considering, or renting for more than 6 YEARS at your current rental frequency. Ain't much ROI that's going to happen on that console unless it's used heavily.
Jeff. You're always the "sane" voice in my head.
Glad to have you around
But it's more of future proofing my sound co... Right now I have a 32 ch digital option ( ls9) which obviously is not big boy friendly so I'm looking to add that piece that is... You're right though, maybe now is not yet the right time...
One piece of gear does not future proof your company... and who knows what is the "right" console for the BE du jour..... this will change every time the next tradeshow rolls around.
IMHO the time to buy a varsity level console is when you are either saying "this is crazy, I'm cross-renting ALL THE TIME", or when you are in a scenario where you are CERTAIN that owning that particular piece of gear is going to bring you new business (I used that one when I owned SC48 in its very early days when it was a hot commodity, but I sold it once the market became saturated with them, knowing that I would no longer be "the only game in town" so to speak - a very wise move in hindsight). As you know, I no longer own a large format console, and have no plans to in the near future.
Let's say you spend $500 to rent a console, including pickup/delivery cost. Multiply by your current 8 times per year and that's 3K. At this rate, you need to be renting EVERY WEEK all year to accumulate to the cost range of the consoles you are considering, or renting for more than 6 YEARS at your current rental frequency. Ain't much ROI that's going to happen on that console unless it's used heavily.
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