Sc48. Vs Sd9
- Thread starter Shane Presley
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uhhhh, Jeff, 500 x 8 = 40000. But your point remains valid.
You got an extra zero in there. 4000.
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
I've only had to subrent a console maybe a couple times in the last few years, so you have a good point. I am looking on my shoulders left and right at the "want" devil, vs the "need" angel. depending on the day , one or the other is winning...
Again, excellent point - but as anyone on here will testify, the G.A.Syndrome can get the best of anyone.. at the end of the day, I like to sit back and revel in having "the best toys", just like anyone else. I also don't enjoy having to run into the city to pick-up the console du jur, when I can own one, and even enjoy it myself once in awhile... The question for me is do I want to carry that debt, and does it make that big of difference to my production ( to my ears and or the 99 percent of my audience).
What I menat by future proofing, what at least having a 48 ch digital solution when the rider calls for it - also having something that is rider accepted.
I've only had to subrent a console maybe a couple times in the last few years, so you have a good point. I am looking on my shoulders left and right at the "want" devil, vs the "need" angel. depending on the day , one or the other is winning...
Again, excellent point - but as anyone on here will testify, the G.A.Syndrome can get the best of anyone.. at the end of the day, I like to sit back and revel in having "the best toys", just like anyone else. I also don't enjoy having to run into the city to pick-up the console du jur, when I can own one, and even enjoy it myself once in awhile... The question for me is do I want to carry that debt, and does it make that big of difference to my production ( to my ears and or the 99 percent of my audience).
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
That's what I get for doing calculations in my head on little sleep. DOH.....
But the point remains.....
That's what I get for doing calculations in my head on little sleep. DOH.....
But the point remains.....
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
Ultimately that's your call. My point was just to help you realize that if you do it, it's more about want than need. And maybe that's OK.....
I would suggest that a new console might make YOU happier, but will make much less difference to your audience show perception than MANY other items you could invest in, such as lighting, video, or even an extra set of hands to help you set up and tear down faster. But ultimately you have to weigh in regarding how much satisfaction you'll have from the personal enjoyment factor and convenience of having a better console.
It all depends on how much weight/priority you want to assign to the financial opinion. There are many times when some of us look past the financial considerations (for better or for worse) and do things for non-monetary reasons. This would be one of them.
Cheers
Jeff
Ultimately that's your call. My point was just to help you realize that if you do it, it's more about want than need. And maybe that's OK.....
I would suggest that a new console might make YOU happier, but will make much less difference to your audience show perception than MANY other items you could invest in, such as lighting, video, or even an extra set of hands to help you set up and tear down faster. But ultimately you have to weigh in regarding how much satisfaction you'll have from the personal enjoyment factor and convenience of having a better console.
It all depends on how much weight/priority you want to assign to the financial opinion. There are many times when some of us look past the financial considerations (for better or for worse) and do things for non-monetary reasons. This would be one of them.
Cheers
Jeff
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
It's funny, but I had the completely opposite opinion the first time I use an SD9. The GUI fit my workflow and way of thinking more comfortably then most any other digital console I've used, and I've been using Yamaha digitals and enjoying them for a long time. Given the choice, I would take a SD9 over the SC48 (assuming both could handle the production needs). I still haven't tried a Pro 2 yet, but it's on my to do list for sure in the near future.
Steve.
It's funny, but I had the completely opposite opinion the first time I use an SD9. The GUI fit my workflow and way of thinking more comfortably then most any other digital console I've used, and I've been using Yamaha digitals and enjoying them for a long time. Given the choice, I would take a SD9 over the SC48 (assuming both could handle the production needs). I still haven't tried a Pro 2 yet, but it's on my to do list for sure in the near future.
Steve.
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
I am one of those who follows the "Jeff Babcock" school of business thought. From a strict business perspective the best future proofing you can do is to make friends with the local rental houses and providers, especially where consoles are concerned. You will always have access to the latest and greatest or the "flavor of the year" the national BE requests when the need arises. Consoles are very expensive to buy and very very inexpensive to rent in my area. I can't really justisfy the expense yet for what I do. That being said I sometimes buy things because I want to use them and if nothing else it makes my job more fun, which is why I do this to begin with.
Since I am not rich and don't like to borrow money if at all possible, I have to ask myself all the time questions like, "Do I really want to buy this new sound rig or can I go ahead and do the room addition to our house or buy that sports car I have wanted for many years now?" Being practical I still don't have the big digital console I want. Being somewhat of the nerd I am, there is still no guest bedroom at my house and no sportscar in my garage but the new rig sounds really great!
Since this is an old thread I'm just curious Shane, Did you get a cool new console yet or is it still on the list of things to possibly do later?
-Eric
I am one of those who follows the "Jeff Babcock" school of business thought. From a strict business perspective the best future proofing you can do is to make friends with the local rental houses and providers, especially where consoles are concerned. You will always have access to the latest and greatest or the "flavor of the year" the national BE requests when the need arises. Consoles are very expensive to buy and very very inexpensive to rent in my area. I can't really justisfy the expense yet for what I do. That being said I sometimes buy things because I want to use them and if nothing else it makes my job more fun, which is why I do this to begin with.
Since I am not rich and don't like to borrow money if at all possible, I have to ask myself all the time questions like, "Do I really want to buy this new sound rig or can I go ahead and do the room addition to our house or buy that sports car I have wanted for many years now?" Being practical I still don't have the big digital console I want. Being somewhat of the nerd I am, there is still no guest bedroom at my house and no sportscar in my garage but the new rig sounds really great!
Since this is an old thread I'm just curious Shane, Did you get a cool new console yet or is it still on the list of things to possibly do later?
-Eric
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
Eric-
Do the room addition. Sports cars and audio are money pits. Trust me.
Eric-
Do the room addition. Sports cars and audio are money pits. Trust me.
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Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
I don't think the math is as simple as the number of rentals multiplied the rental rate equals the loss of income from not having a large digital desk. I think the more important question is how many times a year are they used in your market? How many more shows would you be asked to bid on if your clients and potential clients knew you had a bigger console? That would be the research I would be doing.
The other thing I wanted to mention is that the best sounding console does not always lead to the best sounding show. The ability of a guest engineer to quickly find the parameter they want to adjust and have the response be something they are used to is often more important than the quality of the eq, or whatever processing it may be. That would lead me away from a Digico and towards a Yamaha CL, Soundcraft VI, or maybe a Midas Pro, though I have not had the pleasure of mixing on one yet.
I have an SC48, and while I love it for touring, it would not be my first choice for one-offs. Adjusting compressor plug-ins with input and output gain instead of threshold is not practical during a show. For one-offs I am looking for the most analog like mixing experience I can get.
I don't think the math is as simple as the number of rentals multiplied the rental rate equals the loss of income from not having a large digital desk. I think the more important question is how many times a year are they used in your market? How many more shows would you be asked to bid on if your clients and potential clients knew you had a bigger console? That would be the research I would be doing.
The other thing I wanted to mention is that the best sounding console does not always lead to the best sounding show. The ability of a guest engineer to quickly find the parameter they want to adjust and have the response be something they are used to is often more important than the quality of the eq, or whatever processing it may be. That would lead me away from a Digico and towards a Yamaha CL, Soundcraft VI, or maybe a Midas Pro, though I have not had the pleasure of mixing on one yet.
I have an SC48, and while I love it for touring, it would not be my first choice for one-offs. Adjusting compressor plug-ins with input and output gain instead of threshold is not practical during a show. For one-offs I am looking for the most analog like mixing experience I can get.
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
Im kind of torn between the sc48 and pro 2. I asked a lot of BE's this year and they all said no they would not take a pro 2. Everyones reason was the same. That they had a bad experience because the tech that came out with it didnt know how to use it. That being said I think within a year or so you will start seeing more pro 2's on riders. It took a while for the Profile to come up on riders as well. I remember when the profile was new, Digidesign sent us one to try out. When we called the act to advance the show they didnt want it. They wanted a 5d. Well they didnt get a 5d and loved the profile when the show was done...
Im kind of torn between the sc48 and pro 2. I asked a lot of BE's this year and they all said no they would not take a pro 2. Everyones reason was the same. That they had a bad experience because the tech that came out with it didnt know how to use it. That being said I think within a year or so you will start seeing more pro 2's on riders. It took a while for the Profile to come up on riders as well. I remember when the profile was new, Digidesign sent us one to try out. When we called the act to advance the show they didnt want it. They wanted a 5d. Well they didnt get a 5d and loved the profile when the show was done...
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
I have extensive experience on all these desks and I'm the slowest at a "throw and go" on the Midas. They sound great, but the ergonomics of that desk just don't work for me. I'd still rather see a Pro2 before a SC48, and depending on what mood I'm in it's a tough decision between a Pro2 and the Digico (I'm a big Digico fan and primarily take them on tour). If, like you mention, you will do most of the mixing on this desk, it's got to be something you enjoy using something you understand in and out.
I have extensive experience on all these desks and I'm the slowest at a "throw and go" on the Midas. They sound great, but the ergonomics of that desk just don't work for me. I'd still rather see a Pro2 before a SC48, and depending on what mood I'm in it's a tough decision between a Pro2 and the Digico (I'm a big Digico fan and primarily take them on tour). If, like you mention, you will do most of the mixing on this desk, it's got to be something you enjoy using something you understand in and out.
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
It is an old thread, and I am currently out of my " production season". I did make a major purchase this year but it was in the amplifier dept (4xlab 10q) as well as two x32 consoles.... I am going to run with the suggestion of renting the big boy digital from the big house in town, but I can see myself owning a second hand m7 or sc48 in the future, the m7 only cause everyone will take it cause they have used one, and the sc cause everyone says they sound great.... For me personally when I'm mixing I'll be using the x32, with another on mons, cat 5 between. The other option I have in my stable is to pull the mh2 with the full rack of toys which nobody has refused either, and I refuse to "baff out". It's been used maybe 20 times ever!! Makes me sick to think about it.
. So yeah in all that garble, I'll be purchasing a used 48ch digital at some point, just to have one in house....
It is an old thread, and I am currently out of my " production season". I did make a major purchase this year but it was in the amplifier dept (4xlab 10q) as well as two x32 consoles.... I am going to run with the suggestion of renting the big boy digital from the big house in town, but I can see myself owning a second hand m7 or sc48 in the future, the m7 only cause everyone will take it cause they have used one, and the sc cause everyone says they sound great.... For me personally when I'm mixing I'll be using the x32, with another on mons, cat 5 between. The other option I have in my stable is to pull the mh2 with the full rack of toys which nobody has refused either, and I refuse to "baff out". It's been used maybe 20 times ever!! Makes me sick to think about it.
. So yeah in all that garble, I'll be purchasing a used 48ch digital at some point, just to have one in house....
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
I used the sd9, and I was LOST. Didn't do anything but throw up the channels in front of me. I haven't mixed on a pro2 yet but I'd like to try, same for the sc48.... It's true about the sc, that I'm not a fan of the plug in situation, I'd rather all th "toys be on board" that are available, but I think they are more rider friendly thn the sd9 at this point... That might change.
I used the sd9, and I was LOST. Didn't do anything but throw up the channels in front of me. I haven't mixed on a pro2 yet but I'd like to try, same for the sc48.... It's true about the sc, that I'm not a fan of the plug in situation, I'd rather all th "toys be on board" that are available, but I think they are more rider friendly thn the sd9 at this point... That might change.
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
Almost the same decisions I made. Itechs and an x32 for next season. As easy to use and pretty as the M7CL is I would go with the SC48 if is between those two. There is no comparison between the sound and the SC48 is newer technology and rapidly being accepted on more riders. It is a little bit of a learning curve for a few minutes but soon becomes second nature. The SC48 sounds as good as your MH2 and doesn't require the rack of outboard. The plugins can be as world class as you want to spend the money on. Unfortunately the M7 sounds similar to the old 16bit Alesis ADAT's which I could never get a sound that I was truly happy with in the recording studio.
It is an old thread, and I am currently out of my " production season". I did make a major purchase this year but it was in the amplifier dept (4xlab 10q) as well as two x32 consoles.... I am going to run with the suggestion of renting the big boy digital from the big house in town, but I can see myself owning a second hand m7 or sc48 in the future, the m7 only cause everyone will take it cause they have used one, and the sc cause everyone says they sound great.... For me personally when I'm mixing I'll be using the x32, with another on mons, cat 5 between. The other option I have in my stable is to pull the mh2 with the full rack of toys which nobody has refused either, and I refuse to "baff out". It's been used maybe 20 times ever!! Makes me sick to think about it.
Almost the same decisions I made. Itechs and an x32 for next season. As easy to use and pretty as the M7CL is I would go with the SC48 if is between those two. There is no comparison between the sound and the SC48 is newer technology and rapidly being accepted on more riders. It is a little bit of a learning curve for a few minutes but soon becomes second nature. The SC48 sounds as good as your MH2 and doesn't require the rack of outboard. The plugins can be as world class as you want to spend the money on. Unfortunately the M7 sounds similar to the old 16bit Alesis ADAT's which I could never get a sound that I was truly happy with in the recording studio.
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
The text in bold is the major failing of the SERVICE end of our craft. My boss is BE for a "classic" act very popular with the scooter crowd. He's an analog Luddite. His complaint every tour season is that the system techs know as little as he does about the Shiny New Mixerthing® sitting at FOH. "How do I route my MP3 player to the auxes? How do you get a shelving filter on the channel strip EQ?" Silence.
One of things we pride ourselves on is having knowledgeable techs who can assist the BE or BME to get what they need. We don't want our boss talking about us. 8)~
~
The text in bold is the major failing of the SERVICE end of our craft. My boss is BE for a "classic" act very popular with the scooter crowd. He's an analog Luddite. His complaint every tour season is that the system techs know as little as he does about the Shiny New Mixerthing® sitting at FOH. "How do I route my MP3 player to the auxes? How do you get a shelving filter on the channel strip EQ?" Silence.
One of things we pride ourselves on is having knowledgeable techs who can assist the BE or BME to get what they need. We don't want our boss talking about us. 8)~
~Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
So you guys admit that digital consoles often fail? Then why are so many people jumping ship away from analog?
Is this kind of like the argument some car enthusiasts make that "I'd rather push a chevy than drive a ford?"
In all fairness, I've killed just about every digital console on the market at least once.
Digidesign:
SC48- Up to 3 deaths: Killed a hard drive, Killed the whole left side of the console, and Killed a DSP card.
Profile- Locked up a whole mix rack(reboot solved it)
Yamaha:
M7- Killed the touch screen mid set
Midas:
Pro 6- Locked up the whole console twice(once mid show, once pre show)
Soundcraft:
vi6- Locked up the surface, still passed audio (Finished the set with no control of anything!), Crashed the console twice.
Digico:
SD7- Crashed this guy the first time I used it!
And that's all I can think of right now...
Evan
So you guys admit that digital consoles often fail? Then why are so many people jumping ship away from analog?
Is this kind of like the argument some car enthusiasts make that "I'd rather push a chevy than drive a ford?"
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
Odd point of view, Brandon. To "admit" something is to insinuate that there's been reluctance, nay, even a "cover-up" of sorts by "you guys" to the fact that digital consoles, like anything else, are indeed capable of failing. With digital consoles in our house and my experience on many more over the past several years, I assure you that this is not the case.
The many advantages of "jumping ship" from analog is obvious. So are the disadvantages. As with everything in life, one must weigh those factors when making the decision to go one way or the other.
Geri O
Odd point of view, Brandon. To "admit" something is to insinuate that there's been reluctance, nay, even a "cover-up" of sorts by "you guys" to the fact that digital consoles, like anything else, are indeed capable of failing. With digital consoles in our house and my experience on many more over the past several years, I assure you that this is not the case.
The many advantages of "jumping ship" from analog is obvious. So are the disadvantages. As with everything in life, one must weigh those factors when making the decision to go one way or the other.
Geri O
Re: Sc48. Vs Sd9
Could not agree more Tim! Speaking for myself I know if we owned a pro2 (which may happen soon) if it goes out for a BE to use we will know that thing inside and out like we do all of our digital consoles now....
The text in bold is the major failing of the SERVICE end of our craft. My boss is BE for a "classic" act very popular with the scooter crowd. He's an analog Luddite. His complaint every tour season is that the system techs know as little as he does about the Shiny New Mixerthing® sitting at FOH. "How do I route my MP3 player to the auxes? How do you get a shelving filter on the channel strip EQ?" Silence.
One of things we pride ourselves on is having knowledgeable techs who can assist the BE or BME to get what they need. We don't want our boss talking about us. 8)~
Could not agree more Tim! Speaking for myself I know if we owned a pro2 (which may happen soon) if it goes out for a BE to use we will know that thing inside and out like we do all of our digital consoles now....
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