Would anyone consider helping with a box design. I'm not looking to go low with the box. I have double 18 boxes now from PAS MF218. The original drivers have been replaced with eminence omega pro. The boxes are ok but don't always fit my needs. I would like to take the drivers out and build single 18 boxes. What I need them for is live sound. I never do dj work or play edm. The amps I have will deliver 1600 watts to each driver. I tried doing it myself with design software but I don't know enough to get it right. Just hoping someone can give a hand. Thanks
Simple sub design
- Thread starter Jamie chappa
- Start date
Re: Simple sub design
If your system can't do that-then you are able to reproduce what the musicians are playing.
just something to consider---------------------------
If you work with bass players that use a 5 string bass-then you need to go flat to 31Hz (the open B on the 5 string).
If your system can't do that-then you are able to reproduce what the musicians are playing.
just something to consider---------------------------
Re: Simple sub design
B&C Speakers has a series of well thought out designs that are not difficult to build.
B&C Speakers has a series of well thought out designs that are not difficult to build.
Re: Simple sub design
That said, I prefer equalizing the response flat to Fb to compensate for a falling (or rising) response typical of a low tuned box.
Since the fundamental of a bass guitar is often 6-10 dB down from the harmonics, the equalized response generally does not present problems.
If you want to reproduce the low B you want Fb to be no higher than around 36 Hz ( with a 24 BW HPF around 28Hz to keep the speakers excursion under control), but reproduction does not require flat response.
That said, I prefer equalizing the response flat to Fb to compensate for a falling (or rising) response typical of a low tuned box.
Since the fundamental of a bass guitar is often 6-10 dB down from the harmonics, the equalized response generally does not present problems.
Re: Simple sub design
When I used the eminence design in the software I had over excursion very quickly so I figured I was doing something wrong. When you model the box with more than 200 watts. That's why I was asking for help. As for the box going low I meant I was trying for anything crazy just efficient
When I used the eminence design in the software I had over excursion very quickly so I figured I was doing something wrong. When you model the box with more than 200 watts. That's why I was asking for help. As for the box going low I meant I was trying for anything crazy just efficient
Re: Simple sub design
.
Ampeg : Classic Series - SVT-810AV
As a bass player I am continually arguing with that. The "industry standard" bass cab (SVT 8x10) rolls off at 58 Hz. It's the harmonics that define the note - most of the time when I go out to see a band that is running the bass into the PA the bass is wicked muddy. I usually find myself using the HPF on the bass channel strip to clear it up - unless I'm micing an SVT cab
.Ampeg : Classic Series - SVT-810AV
Re: Simple sub design
Is there one of these designs that best fits my drivers. That's the part I lack the knowledge on what fits. I can copy designs I find online no problem but I'm not sure which ones fit what I have.
Silas Pradetto
Graduate Student
Re: Simple sub design
Eminence Designer is BassBox Pro. The software does a fine job if you know how to use it. Don't expect to plug in some driver parameters and a box size and have the software automatically generate the perfect box.
Eminence Designer is BassBox Pro. The software does a fine job if you know how to use it. Don't expect to plug in some driver parameters and a box size and have the software automatically generate the perfect box.
Re: Simple sub design
I fully admit I don't know how to use it properly that's why I'm asking for help
I fully admit I don't know how to use it properly that's why I'm asking for help
Silas Pradetto
Graduate Student
Re: Simple sub design
If you have an excursion problem, raise the high-pass, tune the box higher, or make the box smaller.
If you have an excursion problem, raise the high-pass, tune the box higher, or make the box smaller.
Re: Simple sub design
Ahh, sorry, I hadn't read that you already had woofers. Probably our single 18" box will work, but there may be differences in bolt circle and baffle cutout dimensions.
Ahh, sorry, I hadn't read that you already had woofers. Probably our single 18" box will work, but there may be differences in bolt circle and baffle cutout dimensions.
Re: Simple sub design
I see that you have two designs that are relatively identical for single eighteens. The only difference I really see is port size and length. What determines the size of the port and the length. Silas mentioned tuning the box higher what determines what it should be tuned at.
Silas Pradetto
Graduate Student
Re: Simple sub design
The woofer
The box
The application
Personal preference
Experience
Processing that is available
The woofer
The box
The application
Personal preference
Experience
Processing that is available
Re: Simple sub design
As a note, although the driver sizes are given in inches, the plans appear to be in millimeters. Either that, or they are for some truely massive boxes...
As a note, although the driver sizes are given in inches, the plans appear to be in millimeters. Either that, or they are for some truely massive boxes...
Re: Simple sub design
This is way to wide open of a question. And some of the replies are already projecting their needs into the answers.
You need to give us way more to go on, and do way more thought yourself.
So what are some of the priorities?
Size. Footprint. Does the cabinet need to be used to stack other things on it? Or are the mid highs on sticks?
If you are stacking, how tall does it need to be? Does it need a certain footprint for safety? Will it have a cup for a pole?
How will all of this interact with your material? EG, are you using 4x8 sheets? Or 5x5? Or do you have some pieces around you need to work in?
Do you need to meet a certain size for transportation? Truck pack? Trailer pack? Minivan pack?
To all these questions above, Art Welter (one responder to this thread) had an awesome system that was designed to pack in a van, stack to a good height for audience clearance, and be made out of materials that would not have a lot of waste when cutting them out. I have no idea how low it went, (I'm guessing his answer provides clues), but to me the other things were just as important, and very impressive in the implementation.
The first thing my calculator tossed out was 8 cubic feet, one 6" port, 4.33"
The eminence below is 6 cubic feet, four 3" ports, 6.54".
Where do these fit into your priorities?
Regards, Jack
This is way to wide open of a question. And some of the replies are already projecting their needs into the answers.
You need to give us way more to go on, and do way more thought yourself.
So what are some of the priorities?
Size. Footprint. Does the cabinet need to be used to stack other things on it? Or are the mid highs on sticks?
If you are stacking, how tall does it need to be? Does it need a certain footprint for safety? Will it have a cup for a pole?
How will all of this interact with your material? EG, are you using 4x8 sheets? Or 5x5? Or do you have some pieces around you need to work in?
Do you need to meet a certain size for transportation? Truck pack? Trailer pack? Minivan pack?
To all these questions above, Art Welter (one responder to this thread) had an awesome system that was designed to pack in a van, stack to a good height for audience clearance, and be made out of materials that would not have a lot of waste when cutting them out. I have no idea how low it went, (I'm guessing his answer provides clues), but to me the other things were just as important, and very impressive in the implementation.
The first thing my calculator tossed out was 8 cubic feet, one 6" port, 4.33"
The eminence below is 6 cubic feet, four 3" ports, 6.54".
Where do these fit into your priorities?
Regards, Jack
Re: Simple sub design
The port variations are infinitely variable. But in practice you will soon narrow it down to something practical.
EG, if you shorten the port by a certain amount, there is a corresponding diameter that will give you the same results.
But you will be constrained physically by, the port you are going to use, and the cabinet. For example, if you went with a 20" port, in my example above, it would need to be over 70 inches long.
So it's not going to physically fit in the cabinet.
Also in my example, the cabinet is tuned to 32 hz according to the software.
To tune it higher, the port will be shorter. So 35 hz would be a 3.35" port, and you would gain about one db from 50 to 80 cycles.
In my software, WinISD, I can try different combinations, and also overlay them on the same chart.
The port variations are infinitely variable. But in practice you will soon narrow it down to something practical.
EG, if you shorten the port by a certain amount, there is a corresponding diameter that will give you the same results.
But you will be constrained physically by, the port you are going to use, and the cabinet. For example, if you went with a 20" port, in my example above, it would need to be over 70 inches long.
So it's not going to physically fit in the cabinet.
Also in my example, the cabinet is tuned to 32 hz according to the software.
To tune it higher, the port will be shorter. So 35 hz would be a 3.35" port, and you would gain about one db from 50 to 80 cycles.
In my software, WinISD, I can try different combinations, and also overlay them on the same chart.
Re: Simple sub design
Muddy because most folks think that the ubiquitous big bump at 80Hz is 'real low end'.
Below 50 is where the fun's at. Notch out the bump instead of high-passing.
Muddy because most folks think that the ubiquitous big bump at 80Hz is 'real low end'.
Below 50 is where the fun's at. Notch out the bump instead of high-passing.
Re: Simple sub design
It's no coincidence that this big bump is at a typical (electrical) crossover frequency between subs and tops. If you're going to push the level on the subs for a rising system response al low frequencies, you probably should be thinking about underlapping the low and sub passbands to reduce buildup at the crossover.
It's no coincidence that this big bump is at a typical (electrical) crossover frequency between subs and tops. If you're going to push the level on the subs for a rising system response al low frequencies, you probably should be thinking about underlapping the low and sub passbands to reduce buildup at the crossover.
Re: Simple sub design
The links I posted above gives 3 compromises with the drivers you have – small, medium and large boxes. It states what the Xmax power limit is.
- 6.9 cu ft -> F3 of 40 Hz max power before Xmax is 200 watts.
- 5.0 cu ft -> F3 of 44.8 Hz max power before Xmax is 250 watts.
- 3.0 cu ft -> F3 of 55 Hz max power before Xmax is 400 watts.
The problem with the Omega Pro is that it does have much Xmax, so going low will mean not much output before you hit Xmax.
If you want to make some serious bass you will need a different driver with an Xmax of 2 or even 3 times what the Omega Pro has.
The links I posted above gives 3 compromises with the drivers you have – small, medium and large boxes. It states what the Xmax power limit is.
- 6.9 cu ft -> F3 of 40 Hz max power before Xmax is 200 watts.
- 5.0 cu ft -> F3 of 44.8 Hz max power before Xmax is 250 watts.
- 3.0 cu ft -> F3 of 55 Hz max power before Xmax is 400 watts.
The problem with the Omega Pro is that it does have much Xmax, so going low will mean not much output before you hit Xmax.
If you want to make some serious bass you will need a different driver with an Xmax of 2 or even 3 times what the Omega Pro has.