Smaart DI vs Systune Standard

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Ben Gingerich

Sophomore
Oct 19, 2012
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Warner Robins Ga
Yes I did search the forums first but the last thread on this was in 2012, so I thought I would bring it back up now that Rational has released DI and AFMG's prices have come down, and I'm going to be buying one very soon.

Sys-tune is approx. $452
Smaart is just short of $600

What's the positives and negatives of each? Learning curve?
 
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Re: Smaart DI vs Systune Standard

I'm in exactly the same boat, I've been trialing Smaart DI for the past month and will be trialing Systune for the next.

From what I've seen of the documentation Systune seems to allow you to go more in-depth with things like changing your time windowing.

Have a look through the manual here, very informative on measurement in general:

http://systune.afmg.eu/index.php/documents.html

Basically you have more options to tailor the measurement configuration to your particular situation but you'll need a greater knowledge of the background mechanics, FFT sizes etc. With Smaart it seems a bit more simplified, which I suspect may actually be better "in the field".

Chris
 
Re: Smaart DI vs Systune Standard

Ben Gingerich said:
Is it true you can have multiple mic's set up in sys-tune?
Click to expand...

Up to 8 with an interface. I've been running Systune since I tried Smaart 5(?) and Systune. I liked Systune better at the time, Systune was more $$$ then and still worth it. Graphics are "dated" looking now.
 
Re: Smaart DI vs Systune Standard

Ben Gingerich said:
Is it true you can have multiple mic's set up in sys-tune?
Click to expand...

There is no inherent maximum number of input sources in Smaart, it is limited by your ability to get signals into the computer and process them in a timely manner. With enough i/o and processing you can probably do 16 inputs.
 
Re: Smaart DI vs Systune Standard

Smaart deals with multiple mics better then Systune. Most notably you can display multiple active spectrums and transfer functions on the screen at one time. You cannot do this with Systune. You can only average multiple mics at one time. Of course you can capture measurements from multiple mics easily enough and compare these captured traces, but again, not the live traces.

What exactly is your application?

I find that I use Systune more for installations and Smaart more for live. I feel like Systune allows better viewing of impulse responses then Smaart.


Sent from my iPhone
 
Re: Smaart DI vs Systune Standard

Rereading, you are talking about Smaart DI, which kinda throws a lot of my previous message out the window.


Sent from my iPhone
 
Re: Smaart DI vs Systune Standard

Mark DeArman said:
Does the new version of SMAART support averaging the response from multiple microphones in real-time? I have had a number of customers ask about a product which would do this.
Click to expand...

Yes, and you can run that average in real time next to your raw traces with different smoothing. I find it pretty helpful in the LF.
 
Re: Smaart DI vs Systune Standard

Ben Gingerich said:
Yes I did search the forums first but the last thread on this was in 2012, so I thought I would bring it back up now that Rational has released DI and AFMG's prices have come down, and I'm going to be buying one very soon.

Sys-tune is approx. $452
Smaart is just short of $600

What's the positives and negatives of each? Learning curve?
Click to expand...

Hey Ben,

Long time Smaart guy (well, not THAT long but maybe a decade) here. I have limited experience with Systune, to be honest, I have banged around in it a few times to see how it compares but never used it in anger.

What I like about Smaart, and version 7 is by far the best, is that it is written and supported by field engineers. So while it has very technical guts (there's more to building even a simple RTA than you might believe, and it's easier to get frequency binning wrong than you might think) the surface is designed for what I need it for: It lets me get good measurements very quickly. Smaart also has an active and extensive beta testing group who are constantly finding and documenting small inconsistencies that are probably not even seen by the majority of their users. The program definitely benefits from their regular training seminars as well, I think Smaart is exposed to more users in more situations than other software and so I find it can shine in more cases for me. In the end Smaart just works for me, for one mic or four, and while I could certainly spend a lot of time changing windows and IR sizes - the tools are there - it's the only software I have come to trust to get me data minutes after turning my laptop on and be done ASAP. In production that's worth every penny.
 
Re: Smaart DI vs Systune Standard

Full Disclosure - I am a product manager for Rational Acoustics.

Chris Nixon said:
From what I've seen of the documentation Systune seems to allow you to go more in-depth with things like changing your time windowing.

Basically you have more options to tailor the measurement configuration to your particular situation but you'll need a greater knowledge of the background mechanics, FFT sizes etc. With Smaart it seems a bit more simplified, which I suspect may actually be better "in the field".

Chris
Click to expand...

In fact, DI was purpose built to be streamlined; it's nimble and quickly adaptable interface is built for users to make precise measurements quickly when the need for v7's multi-measurement and multi-mode complexity is not paramount. That being said, both Smaart DI or v7 can get as tweaky as you want - you just have to know what you are doing - or more importantly in this case...why. After that it's just a matter of choosing the parameters you wish in the measurement options/configuration dialog window (depending on which parameters you wish to tweakify). Our default settings are the derivation of over 20 years of system engineering and development of the Smaart platform, so changing them around can get a bit dicey if you don't know exactly why you are changing them. We don't put these settings on the top level of the interface for the sake of simplicity.

Here's a tech note about data windows written in the v5 days, the info is still relevant.

As far as the multi-mic question - Tim is absolutely correct. I only add that with DI you can only view one signal pair at a time (2x spectrum, 1x TF). However, you can switch between as many configured measurement pairs as you wish, and you never need to leave the top level of the interface to do so. In v7 you are only limited by your hardware and processing power. The most I have gone is 24 inputs running 23 live TF measurements + a live average (23 mics into a PreSonus 24.4.2 + Reference Input) into my quad-core 2.4 Ghz/8GB of Ram MBP. The biggest crunch you will run into is your GPU; if your computer can't handle plotting that many traces at once it will bog down heavily. We wrote an extensive doc about rig requirements (including GPU), available here.

To add to what Bennett wrote; in 2013 we trained 1,054 audio professionals in 17 different countries, on 6 different continents, in 6 different languages. We haven't ran the numbers for 2014 yet - though we certainly aren't slowing down. We'd love to see you at a training someday!

Cheers Gang.
 
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Re: Smaart DI vs Systune Standard

Chris Tsanjoures said:
Full Disclosure - I am a product manager for Rational Acoustics.



In fact, DI was purpose built to be streamlined; it's nimble and quickly adaptable interface is built for users to make precise measurements quickly when the need for v7's multi-measurement and multi-mode complexity is not paramount. That being said, both Smaart DI or v7 can get as tweaky as you want - you just have to know what you are doing - or more importantly in this case...why. After that it's just a matter of choosing the parameters you wish in the measurement options/configuration dialog window (depending on which parameters you wish to tweakify). Our default settings are the derivation of over 20 years of system engineering and development of the Smaart platform, so changing them around can get a bit dicey if you don't know exactly why you are changing them. We don't put these settings on the top level of the interface for the sake of simplicity.

Here's a tech note about data windows written in the v5 days, the info is still relevant.

As far as the multi-mic question - Tim is absolutely correct. I only add that with DI you can only view one signal pair at a time (2x spectrum, 1x TF). However, you can switch between as many configured measurement pairs as you wish, and you never need to leave the top level of the interface to do so. In v7 you are only limited by your hardware and processing power. The most I have gone is 24 inputs running 23 live TF measurements + a live average (23 mics into a PreSonus 24.4.2 + Reference Input) into my quad-core 2.4 Ghz/8GB of Ram MBP. The biggest crunch you will run into is your GPU; if your computer can't handle plotting that many traces at once it will bog down heavily. We wrote an extensive doc about rig requirements (including GPU), available here.

To add to what Bennett wrote; in 2013 we trained 1,054 audio professionals in 17 different countries, on 6 different continents, in 6 different languages. We haven't ran the numbers for 2014 yet - though we certainly aren't slowing down. We'd love to see you at a training someday!

Cheers Gang.
Click to expand...

Thanks Bennett.
Chris I attempted to go to a class in 2014 but the Air-Force decided I would be doing something else instead, hopefully another will come around I will be able to attend.

I never thought about being able to switch between measurements in DI that's a huge time saver!
10+ Years ago when I started working for a local install company I remember having to set up the owners smaart rig and then move the mic around the room for hours as he took and retook his measurements, I learned a lot but wish I had paid much closer attention.
 
Re: Smaart DI vs Systune Standard

Ben Gingerich said:
Thanks Bennett.

I never thought about being able to switch between measurements in DI that's a huge time saver!
10+ Years ago when I started working for a local install company I remember having to set up the owners smaart rig and then move the mic around the room for hours as he took and retook his measurements, I learned a lot but wish I had paid much closer attention.
Click to expand...
When I started doing real measurements (15yrs ago), I would move the single mic around.

Then I build my "measurement cart" (which I still have and use). It had 8 rolls of different colored mic wire on it, a place for stand and a work platform. I was using Smaart 3.?? at the time.

I made little "level adjustment" adaptors that I then ran into a switch so I could place the mics around the room and simply turn a rotary switch to select the particular mic of interest. I would have to enter the delay time for each mic-but I would simply write it down so no big deal.

This worked for quite a while.

Then Systune came out. NOW I could run each mic into a a channel of a motu 8pre and see the different mics "overlayed" on the screen.

This was a huge improvement over the Smaart setup.

Then Smaart 7 came out. THIS is what I wanted and needed. Being able to see the ACTIVE trace of all of the mics at the same time was a HUGE improvement and time saver.

The particular tool that I use, depends on what I am doing. For lab work and data sheets I use TEF. But sadly I feel it will die out in my lifetime :(

But for "quick measurements" and system setup/alignment, Smaart 7 is my tool of choice. It is a rare day that I don't measure something with it.
 
Re: Smaart DI vs Systune Standard

Great summary Ivan, thanks.

I use SysTune - only because Smaart 7 wasn't ready when I was buying. I like it a lot but it has some annoyances. For example adjusting the time alignment of a measurement requires digging through almost hidden menus and first locking any measurements (overlays) that I don't want moved. And, as far as I can tell, there's no way to flip the polarity of a measurement - something I like to do when comparing the phase of different loudspeakers.

I can see Smaart 7 in my near future!
 
Re: Smaart DI vs Systune Standard

Michael Smithers said:
. And, as far as I can tell, there's no way to flip the polarity of a measurement - something I like to do when comparing the phase of different loudspeakers.
Click to expand...
I flip the POLARITY of the loudspeakers in the DSP.

I don't want to take a chance on "forgetting" which mic is in or out of polarity.

I cant think a single time I have ever wanted to flip the polarity of a measurement mic. But that may be me
 
Re: Smaart DI vs Systune Standard

SMAART Di was the choice, Rational and their dealers customer service was great!
The easier workflow is better for me at this point. To upgrade it to the full version is not that much if I decide to do it down the road.
Now lets see how many measurements I can not understand until I can get into a class.
 
Re: Smaart DI vs Systune Standard

Ben,

A tactic I used "pre-class training" when I started was to try and take good measurements of systems that subjectively sounded good to me and then look for common features on the traces. That helped me to correlate what I heard with what I measured.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD
 
Re: Smaart DI vs Systune Standard

Ben,
I see that this thread is almost a month old, have you made a choice between the two yet. I recently had the same choice to make, although I use the software in a rather unorthodox way, custom car audio installation, I can tell you what helped me make my decision. For me, it was really hard to choose. Smaart v7 & Di both are hands down the winner when it comes to user interface and visibility. But, you cannot adjust the MTW. Windowing is important to me because in the tiny acoustical environment of a car, direct arrival vs. reflected energy is often separated by less than 1-2 ms. With SysTune, you can adjust the windowing while looking at the impulse response without having to change modes. In Di, I don't think that there even is an IR mode. So I guess it comes down to how important IR's are to ya, if they're not, I'd say Di 100%.
 
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