Sound Provider Refusing Band Engineer?

Re: Sound Provider Refusing Band Engineer?

John Chiara said:
I have a show coming up and the provider for the event...a former friend and employer... Has already instructed his crew at other events that I am not allowed near his gear or his crew members. It seems to be a personal thing with him and I have never done anything to harm his gear...obviously...and the last show I attended his crew chief asked me for any advice on the system and then in our personal conversation accused me of playing politics and threatening his job security... I was talking about mix position and sub array coverage...not sure what he wanted me to comment on. Wonder how to have the band deal with the upcoming show. When I am providing the bands show is the bands show, and I just babysit to protect my gear and help him do the best show possible, but would never tell a band hired engineer he could not mix a show. This company hired me for years just to mix shows as that is my strong skill set.
What to do?
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If you are the provider of the sound and a promoter has hired you for it, then you need to get the promoter involved. No matter who i am working for Promoter , committee , or individual. I am at THEIR mercy, They are the one putting on the event and what they say should be the last word. you are going to have enough trouble with doing the job of providing.

I did a show back early this summer and got there and started setting up and no power from where i was supposed to plug in at , all i did was told the committee there and i didn't worry about it anymore. the one who hired me told the rest of the committee that i came first , cause with out him (Talking about me) there is no show and nobody else needs on the same line as he is on. and I never worried another time about anything. So if this guy is raising a stink then you need to tell the promoter.
 
Re: Sound Provider Refusing Band Engineer?

John Chiara said:
I want the band to stick up for me as this seems to be the only way to resolve this stupid impasse. I helped the guy start his company and he hired me for years and when I started my own company he flipped his lid and started this stupid practice of banning me from his shows. No controversial event what so ever but now this is an original band and I just finished mixing their album and they really need and want me at FOH. I have given up on Karma around here... The most ridiculous things happen at live shows...ie:..setting up the console at FOH...while also running monitors from FOH...on a case about 15" off the ground inside a tent where the engineer can't see the band or hear the system...and of course band members complainIng to me...you get the picture.
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The problem here IMHO. is that , you are the competition, When you helped him get his business started then you became the enemy, no good deed ever goes unpunished. been there and done that. what i would do is go to him after or before this event and just talk to him , I don't mean all guns blazing or nothing but just talk with him and sort this out. I would put my bet on that he is a little on the competitive side.
 
Re: Sound Provider Refusing Band Engineer?

John...

If you're very, very sure of your ground, use an alias next time. Don't give them any lead time to get their undies in a bunch.

But the band and everyone else should stand up for you if you're their go-to guy.
 
Re: Sound Provider Refusing Band Engineer?

I was told by the event coordinator at the venue that they won't let me bring my gear and won't let me operate theirs.
He said they'd let me stand next to them and offer "suggestions".

Band just told me they got the client to put in writing that I get to bring and operate my equipment.

I'm a bit nervous. I assume someone will be offended and it will be my fault, no matter what happens

I've decided to show up with my rig, screw on my most non-confrontational attitude, and do whatever makes the show go over well, even if it means go home.
We'll see.
 
Re: Sound Provider Refusing Band Engineer?

My point is this stuff does happen.
Usually with bands that are moving up a level from "local band"
 
Re: Sound Provider Refusing Band Engineer?

Steve Hurt said:
I just got told I can't mix a show because it's a union venue
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That doesnt make any sense to me. If it's a arena that's about as union i guess that it gets , our arena here in my town lets me do their sound work for different things , and i'm not in a union. and every where else that i go and do sound has never stated that they were in some sort of union that would cause me to not do a show with my stuff. to me it's just a lot of smoke being blown. I have never heard of that one.
 
Re: Sound Provider Refusing Band Engineer?

Steve Hurt said:
I was told by the event coordinator at the venue that they won't let me bring my gear and won't let me operate theirs.
He said they'd let me stand next to them and offer "suggestions".

Band just told me they got the client to put in writing that I get to bring and operate my equipment.

I'm a bit nervous. I assume someone will be offended and it will be my fault, no matter what happens

I've decided to show up with my rig, screw on my most non-confrontational attitude, and do whatever makes the show go over well, even if it means go home.
We'll see.
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i wouldnt worry about it, if it offends someone then it will just have to offend them , that will be their problem. I would do just what you said and not confront anyone go do the best job i could and go home.
 
Re: Sound Provider Refusing Band Engineer?

Steve,
If there is already a rig there then why bring in your's?

John,
There seems to be so much bad blood with your gig and an underlying story that you may or may not even know the depths of, that I wonder if it's worth it to fight this battle for one gig? Yeah, you could let the band state their case to the promoter but if the promoter isn't immediately on your side then it might just end up making a difficult day for everyone. I mean it sounds like it's not a case of them just not wanting you to mix, but instead they'd rather you not be on the property. That is some serious roots for this feud and no matter who intervenes, unless it ends up with either a burying of the hatchet or else a new vendor, then it's going to be a sour work environment for everyone.

But ultimately, you are in the right. People who want to have 'nobody mixes on my rig but me' business models should look for a band to work with and be done with it. They sure aren't production providers with a viable business model for growth.
 
Re: Sound Provider Refusing Band Engineer?

Steve Hurt said:
My point is this stuff does happen.
Usually with bands that are moving up a level from "local band"
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It also just happened last week at Toby Keith's in Syracuse, NY. Aside from being g a horrible sounding gymnasium like room,the system didn't cover a majority of the space, the sound booth was totally out of the main system coverage and the house guy Cnever walked around and vocals were painful and everything else was just stage volume.
 
Re: Sound Provider Refusing Band Engineer?

John Chiara said:
It also just happened last week at Toby Keith's in Syracuse, NY. Aside from being g a horrible sounding gymnasium like room,the system didn't cover a majority of the space, the sound booth was totally out of the main system coverage and the house guy Cnever walked around and vocals were painful and everything else was just stage volume.
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If it was about the music instead of the sale of alcohol it might be a bit better.

Bazinga!!!
 
Re: Sound Provider Refusing Band Engineer?

Alan,
At this point, I don't know if they have hired in a rig for this gig.
It's completely possible the venue wasn't aware a band had been hired until I showed up.

Right now, I do not know what to expect. My rig is in the trailer, so I'll take it. If I don't unload it, that's fine.
If the band doesn't play, it won't be because I showed up unprepared.
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To anyone:

I did not mean to turn this thread into an anti union/pro union discussion. I was replying to: "this doesn't happen outside JV
People throw up all kinds of obstacles. Most are are B.S., but my point is, They DO still happen, outside the JV.
This is not the first time this band was not allowed to use it's sound guy. Other reasons have been used in the past, not union

I used this most recent situation as an example to refute: "this doesn't happen outside JV", because it's not a JV room, not because it's a union room.

(I'm assuming a room that is over 70,000 sq ft, in a facility that is over 1 million sq ft, is considered outside JV)
 
Re: Sound Provider Refusing Band Engineer?

In JV the systechs/house guy tries to keep other soundguys away from the system. This because he/she wants to make sure that the money/job he gets doesn't go away due to others doing the job and make sure that he's the only one knowing the gear.

I've even seen systems 'reconfigured' so that visiting engineers would have a struggle doing a good job.

Usually the venue doesn't have to pay for BE's so they like to save the money by not having the house tech there all night...
 
Re: Sound Provider Refusing Band Engineer?

Robert Lofgren said:
In JV the systechs/house guy tries to keep other soundguys away from the system. This because he/she wants to make sure that the money/job he gets doesn't go away due to others doing the job and make sure that he's the only one knowing the gear.
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I definitely encountered that. Plenty of well founded 'probationary' BEing until venue/system techs got to know and trust you but the only times I was flat out not allowed to BE were venues or systems where the venue/provider techs seemed afraid they would look bad if they allowed anyone else to mix.
 
Re: Sound Provider Refusing Band Engineer?

Dick Rees said:
To my knowledge, that's BS. Someone is looking for an excuse and just threw a union under the bus.
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I agree with this. As far as I know, and I'm sure some IATSE guys here can chip in with the real facts if I'm off base, around here if you want to get into the union you have to get on the call list and then work a bunch of shows to prove that you are competent. If they aren't allowing non-union members to work in these venues, where would new membership come from?
 
Re: Sound Provider Refusing Band Engineer?

Originally Posted by Dick Rees View Post
To my knowledge, that's BS. Someone is looking for an excuse and just threw a union under the bus.


Spenser Hamilton said:
I agree with this. As far as I know, and I'm sure some IATSE guys here can chip in with the real facts if I'm off base, around here if you want to get into the union you have to get on the call list and then work a bunch of shows to prove that you are competent. If they aren't allowing non-union members to work in these venues, where would new membership come from?
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Once again........ My point is NOT about union. Give it a rest.

My point is that this crap happens above JV level.

Whether the reason given to me is B.S. or not, they are trying to keep me out
Hopefully clarifying that in three separate posts will get the idea across.
This stuff does happen above JV level.
 
Re: Sound Provider Refusing Band Engineer?

It's a venue thing. Like a hotel demanding you get all your mics and lights from their AV department, charging you per outlet for power, etc.

They're trying to max out their investment and make it pay. It's a hard industry, not helped by going overboard on the line-item charges.
 
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