Stage issues. Help!

J

Jonathan Betts

Freshman
Jan 13, 2011
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Vermont
Last night I was filling in on drums and doing sound from stage at one of our local dives.
Using my simple 12 channel mixer(7 band eq no low cut filter) 3 vocal mics, bass guitar, one drum overhead and kick coming through the PA(MRX 515 Srx 718).

The stage is small about 10x15 6" off the ground and carpeted. The bar owner insists that we all play on the stage including our vocal mic stands. When doing a sound check with bass and drums it sounded nice and smooth. When the vocals were added there was a terrible "boomy sound" added to the mix with every kick beat. I have noticed this before when watching other bands.

The highs and mid channel eq's were running flat and I had a little cut on the lows seeing that there is no low cut on the mixer. It was very frusturating no being able to address this problem while playing drums.

When you stomp your foot on the stage you can here the same boomy frequency.

Any suggestions?
 
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Re: Stage issues. Help!

It seems to me you already answered you own question. The first thing I would address is having some sort of high pass filter for your vocal mics.
 
Re: Stage issues. Help!

Unfortunately my Mix wiz was stolen a couple months back and I am stuck for a while( could be a long while) with my crap mixer. Is there a cheaper way than having to spend $1000 to filter my vocal mics?

Would a bunch of Shure A15HP's work for my application?
 
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Re: Stage issues. Help!

jonathan betts said:
The highs and mid channel eq's were running flat and I had a little cut on the lows seeing that there is no low cut on the mixer.

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

Simple answer: Cut more of the lows on the vocal mics.

OR

Bring some squares of plywood and some squares of "carpet samples" and sandwich them, then set your mic stands on the sandwich. This will help if the LF is being physically transmitted through the floor and up the stands.
 
Re: Stage issues. Help!

jonathan betts said:
... filling in on drums and doing sound from stage at one of our local dives.
Using my simple 12 channel mixer(7 band eq no low cut filter) 3 vocal mics, bass guitar, one drum overhead and kick coming through the PA(MRX 515 Srx 718).

The stage is small about 10x15 6" off the ground ... When the vocals were added there was a terrible "boomy sound" added to the mix with every kick beat. ... very frusturating no being able to address this problem while playing drums.
Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

The model of mixer?
How much are you willing to spend to address this issue?
I'm assuming the venue is not very large, and I've done plenty of these.
As noted: too much cross mic bleed on a small stage.
 
Re: Stage issues. Help!

I'm a pretty dynamic drummer so a gate would be hard for me to set properly. The kick is well tuned with no ringing overtones. Cutting the lows on the vocal does help the problem but sacrifices the overall sound.

The mixer is a carvin rx 1200. It is actually the best powerd mixer I have ever owned. I only use one of the internal amps to run my monitors. The rest of the system is run off an I tech 6000.


Most of the venues are small, no more than 150 people. I never have a problem in the bigger spaces.
 
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Re: Stage issues. Help!

jonathan betts said:
I'm a pretty dynamic drummer so a gate would be hard for me to set properly. The kick is well tuned with no ringing overtones. Cutting the lows on the vocal does help the problem but sacrifices the overall sound.

The mixer is a cravin rx 1200. It is actually the best powerd mixer I have ever owned. I only use one of the internal amps to run my monitors.
Click to expand...

If the kick is ringing in the mains, it potentially has nothing to do with the kick tuning. A gate should be set such that you don't get the vocal mic ringing; however, this may not even be a contributor to the problem. It might just be the vocal mics...in that case, what everyone else said, high pass, EQ, aux feed subs, or get a better console.

Try turning the kick mic off in the mix and see if that removes the ring. If it does, get a gate.

Also, there is very little useful vocal information below 100-150Hz if you're in a rock band. Also note, the stock SM58 proximity effect is NOT how a mic is supposed to sound; it's more than 10dB from being 'flat'. You didn't mention what mics you're using.

Try cutting 125 or 160 on your graphic, or something close since it's 7-band.
 
Re: Stage issues. Help!

That Carvin may not have the ability to sub group or Aux feed.
With stages of similar size I have to have control on each channel of lower mids as well as bass cut switch because of stage mung and sum up.
Can you solo each channel through phones?
 
Re: Stage issues. Help!

The kick was not ringing. It was fine with the bass, horns, percussion, and guitar coming through the mains.

How would I set up an aux fed system with what I have?

The vocal mics are a mix of sm 58's and beta's
 
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Re: Stage issues. Help!

Robert Burns said:
That Carvin may not have the ability to sub group or Aux feed.
With stages of similar size I have to have control on each channel of lower mids as well as bass cut switch because of stage mung and sum up.
Can you solo each channel through phones?
Click to expand...

The mixer cannot solo each channel. It has a hig, mid, low, monitor 1, monitor 2, 2 effects, gain, and volume on each channel.
 
Re: Stage issues. Help!

jonathan betts said:
The mixer cannot solo each channel. It has a hig, mid, low, monitor 1, monitor 2, 2 effects, gain, and volume on each channel.
Click to expand...

You can still create "groups" using the pan. You can take all the channels you do not want in the subs and pan them hard left, and use the L bus to drive your tops in dual mono. Then leave the kick, bass and keys at center and use the R bus to drive the subs.
 
Re: Stage issues. Help!

I'm guessing the Carvin mixer does not allow each channel to be assigned and/or blended into multiple discrete outputs, or have inserts.
A mixer that does often has distinct output groups and insert flex. A group assigned ONLY to feed a subwoofer would have the vocal microphones and non bass instruments excluded, so the sub is only fed ( by virtue of a discrete aux out ) ONLY bass producers.
While stand alone gates could be inserted for each open mic ( pre-mixer ) the cost adds up and as you indicated - If the vocal mic is on the bleed is heard.
A solo punch-through with headphones ( if possible ) could help isolate which mics are picking up stuff out of their area.
On small stages: I try to use as few mics as possible because of sum up & bleed;
If listened to as a solo group ( without instruments ) my vocal mix would sound anemic ( often from 200Hz and below ) - it is to compensate for the "bloom" that fills in when the other mics are added.
I also use D/I boxes whenever possible.
 
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Re: Stage issues. Help!

Jay Barracato said:
You can still create "groups" using the pan. You can take all the channels you do not want in the subs and pan them hard left, and use the L bus to drive your tops in dual mono. Then leave the kick, bass and keys at center and use the R bus to drive the subs.
Click to expand...

Good idea!

How would I do this? I run my tops off one channel of the amp and subs off the other. The amp is set up in "y" mode using only one output from the mixer.

The band I normaly perform with has 4 vocals, guitar, bass, keys, drums, percussion, 2 horns.
 
Re: Stage issues. Help!

Easy then, Take the amp out of the "y" mode and just send the L to the L side of the amp with the tops, and the R to the right side with the subs.

Do you not have some sort of crossover in the chain? It sounds like you are sending the same full range signal to both the tops and the subs, whichcould likely be the cause of some of the sonic mud you are hearing.
 
Re: Stage issues. Help!

Sure it will, the Itech will give you the control you need.

Just think sequentially. Currently you have a single full range signal going into the Itech, which is then split to drive your tops and subs. All you are doing is moving the point at which the signal is split upstream from the Itech to your mixer.

eidt- all the aux or group feed sub is doing is removing things from the signal being sent to the subs that do not need to be there.
 
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