Still no product?...RANT

[Charlie Zureki]

Re: Still no product?...RANT

The issue is value. Everyone knows you can get stuff cheaper online/mail-order. The help (or lack there of) that I got from GC was not sufficiently valuable to justify the substantially higher cost of shopping there.

I am a free market capitalist. I wold love for every business to be wildly successful, and I don't begrudge GC, at least from an impersonal standpoint, for making changes that improved their profitability. However, they still have to compete for my business, and they better offer me an awful lot for all that extra money. Before anyone accuses me of this, no I don't go look or listen at GC and then order online. If I want to see or touch it, I will buy it from where I did so. I'm at the level now where neither GC nor the other local shop carry what I'm shopping for anyway, at least for fairly big ticket items.

One interesting counterpoint to your experience is that most of the vendors I buy from are pretty small businesses. GC in particular surely has much more purchasing power than Northernsound, the Audiopiles, and a few others. The other local shop around here deals too, and somehow they survive.

+1 the ONLY items that I've ever considered buying or have bought from GC are Microphones. It seems Mic prices are about the same from them as from anyone else.

As a side note...I've always had a tough time in GC or the late Mars Music, they almost never had/have anyone that knows the products that they're selling. Over-hearing some of their sales people's conversations ... just made me wince.

Hammer

 

[John Roberts]

Re: Still no product?...RANT

If we're going further down the road with this veer... I have watched the maturing of sound equipment distribution over the last few decades like a slow motion truck crashing into a van full of puppies..

The customer is driving waste out of the food chain at all levels... If merchantable product can be sourced and sold for 20-40% less from China (or the next cheap region) the customer will provide the positive feedback by buying that over lower value US made (same quality but more expensive).

Likewise down the distribution food chain.. The dealers will have to earn their margin. Many haven't made the adjustment and are gone. When was the last time you saw a small local hardware store? [warning- following comment may be interpreted as political] Another change I expect is some form of national sales tax (VAT?). This will have an interesting effect of tilting the scale away from mail order or more correctly internet sales. If the states were more clever they would harmonize the sundry state sales tax rates, but some states still don't charge a sales tax, and this really gets complicated with local jurisdictions conflicting with national level interests. Interesting times.. the new normal may change again. The smart big box stores are building their own web direct sales presence but they wouldn't mind driving that traffic back to their brick and mortar stores if it reduces web competition against them.

[edit- another side effect of this sales tax impact on direct sales... the huge direct sellers are pitting the states against each other with a pretty ugly quid pro quo deals where they trade local in state jobs for X years of state sales tax holidays, which could become moot.]

JR

PS: This maturing of the entire segment squeezes profit from everybody.. the manufacturer's profit margin is always over estimated and now is thinner than ever. Mfrs must generate high sales volume so the thinner margins they get will keep them alive.

 

[Charlie Zureki]

Re: Still no product?...RANT

If we're going further down the road with this veer... I have watched the maturing of sound equipment distribution over the last few decades like a slow motion truck crashing into a van full of puppies..

The customer is driving waste out of the food chain at all levels... If merchantable product can be sourced and sold for 20-40% less from China (or the next cheap region) the customer will provide the positive feedback by buying that over lower value US made (same quality but more expensive).

Likewise down the distribution food chain.. The dealers will have to earn their margin. Many haven't made the adjustment and are gone. When was the last time you saw a small local hardware store? [warning- following comment may be interpreted as political] Another change I expect is some form of national sales tax (VAT?). This will have an interesting effect of tilting the scale away from mail order or more correctly internet sales. If the states were more clever they would harmonize the sundry state sales tax rates, but some states still don't charge a sales tax, and this really gets complicated with local jurisdictions conflicting with national level interests. Interesting times.. the new normal may change again. The smart big box stores are building their own web direct sales presence but they wouldn't mind driving that traffic back to their brick and mortar stores if it reduces web competition against them.

[edit- another side effect of this sales tax impact on direct sales... the huge direct sellers are pitting the states against each other with a pretty ugly quid pro quo deals where they trade local in state jobs for X years of state sales tax holidays, which could become moot.]

JR

PS: This maturing of the entire segment squeezes profit from everybody.. the manufacturer's profit margin is always over estimated and now is thinner than ever. Mfrs must generate high sales volume so the thinner margins they get will keep them alive.

Hello JR.

everything you posted is pretty much factual.....(although, in Michigan we have all of the National & Regional Hardware & Discount Lumber chains) we still have plenty of Mom & Pop owned stores. I'm guessing that it's probably true Nation-wide too. Come to think of it.....while there's plenty of Restaurants, Pizza Shops, Hair Salons, Auto Repair Centers, Convenience Stores, (7-11, Circle K) and Clothing Retailers, etc.... that are National or Regional Chains. Not all of these businesses and services have been pushed out by the National & Regional Chains, there's still a lot of self proprietors out there.

Surely they must be competing against the big chains, even though their purchasing power is a pitance compared to the big guys. Sometimes it's not about the money....sometimes it's about the knuckle-heads that you DON'T have to speak to.

I went to Best Buy yesterday...(another store that I dispise) to purchase a set of a cancelled TV Series for a gift. After checking the in-stock shelves and not finding the complete series, I made the mistake of allowing a store employee to "help" me. After ten minutes of his "learning" their computer system, followed by an additional 5 minutes of "help" from a supervisor (with constant interruptions from other customers...freaking rude ass people and Supervisor) ...I walked out of the Store...without any purchases.

I can order this gift on the Web. Why do I need to speak to people that are less than stupid? Sure...it's Best Buy, maybe it's not these Employee's ultimate career goals, but, if they can't handle a simple task, what makes them believe that they can have a future anywhere else? (probably their love-blind parents)

So...while we can discuss the International economics involved with the buying, selling, of Manufactured products.... I feel there's a more immediate problem of business etiquette, the TEACHING of business skills, and an emphasis on knowing the Products they're pushing.

My goal as a customer, is to find the right product that best suits my needs, not necessarily the cheapest price, or the cheapest product.

Hammer

 

[John Roberts]

Re: Still no product?...RANT

While I have observations about distribution from both inside and outside, my direct observations are clearly small town and small city in the deep south so perhaps not reflective of urban areas.

When I moved to this tiny town there was at least two small stores that sold hardware, a small local food store, actually a town square with a dozen store fronts all selling something. Now it looks bombed out... and since I don't even go there much anymore (all of 3 blocks from my house) I haven't checked it out lately, but i am pretty sure no new mom and pop stores have opened up in this recent economy.

They did just throw up a new dollar general in the front yard of what used to be the local high school (literally a stone's throw from me). They are taking business from the walmarts 10 miles in one direction and 20 in the other, and the one gas station with microwave pizza and other such urbane fare still open in town.

Mom and pop retail, selling generic product seems like an impossible uphill struggle to me... but who knows maybe in wealthier regions life is easier, I doubt it, but don't know first hand.

Speaking about the retail audio (MI) business it seems like the power shifted away from retailers controlling their own local world when Mackie amped up consumer style advertising that sold (or presold) products directly to the end users with heavy feature (hooks) oriented advertising (that 1604 may have been the most heavily advertised single MI SKU in history) and then opened up wide distribution. But that gutting of traditional dealer distribution structures came back and bit them, when they got copied at a cheaper price, and brand loyalty was as fleeting as the old dealer loyalty.

I have long ago given up on expecting good customer service so am pleasantly surprised when I do rarely see a glimpse of competance.

JR

 

[W. Mark Hellinger]

Re: Still no product?...RANT

When I moved to this tiny town there was at least two small stores that sold hardware, a small local food store, actually a town square with a dozen store fronts all selling something. Now it looks bombed out... and since I don't even go there much anymore (all of 3 blocks from my house) I haven't checked it out lately, but i am pretty sure no new mom and pop stores have opened up in this recent economy.

I moved from our family farm to one of the local towns about 15 years ago. I could pick any one of the three towns local to our family farm as an example to compare the downtown business district of a generation ago vs. today:

All three a long generation ago had (in no particular order):

1) one or two grocery stores
2) a bowling alley
3) 2 or 3 resturants
4) a medical center
5) one or two barbers and a of couple beauty parlors
6) a flower shop
7) one or two or three car dealerships
8) one or two fabric shops
9) one or two drug stores
10) one to three gas stations
11) 3 or 4 or 5 churches
12) a grade school, a Jr. high school, and a high school
13) 1 - 2 movie theatres
14) 2 or 3 or 4 bars
15) 2 or 3 or 4 equipment dealerships
16) a couple law offices
17) 2 or 3 or 4 banks
18) 2 or 3 or 4 hardward & general supply stores
19) a machine shop or two
20) a few general contractors
21) a couple butchers
22) one or two lumber stores
23) A few to many factories
24) Plumbing & electrical supply stores and contractors
25) Furniture & appliance stores
26) 3 different railroads
27) a full-time cop & police station
28) one or two real estate offices/ combination insurance offices

The list could go on & on... tire shops, body shops, mechanic shops, bus stations, car washes, etc...

Right now... one town has a sort-of grocery store... more like a convenience store... the bakery and meat counters are all gone... it's mostly twinkies, soda pop, and really small tubes of tooth paste. Each town seems to have hung-onto a bank. All but one set or railroad tracks are gone in one town... the other towns all the RR tracks are gone, the depots are long gone, some of the business dist. buildings have been converted into storage units... the towns contract to the local sherrif's dept for some drive-through law enforcement, the schools have been merged, the bowling alleys & movie theatres are long gone, there's a couple of churches hanging on, with a traveling preacher that comes once a month or a few times a year... most of the churches have been gifted to the towns and fast falling into disrepair. Each town has hung onto a post office... but most everything else is gone... the central business district would look like a bombed out war zone... except the combined fire departments do a pretty good job of burning the rements of the abandoned central business dist. building that have gone to pot.

The population hasn't shrunk, in-fact it's expanded. Most everybody drives an hour or two one-way to work, or to church, or to shop. Residential real estate prices are through the roof (10X to 50X what they seemingly were a generation ago).

The growth industries seem to be: Retirement homes, sewer systems, and govt. mandated services.

BTW: as an observation on the state of affairs retail wise: I stopped by a Goodwill store , during my 100+ mile drive to a local gig, to pick-up some suitable shoes to compliment my kilt for a Saturday performance. The store building was fabulous... probably a $1M+ facility. The mens shoe selection was megar (to say the least... probably about 10 - 15 pairs). There was a pair that probably would have worked for my application... almost the right size and sort-of the right genre... but really worn, decidedly very dated, and... well... basically "old, really used shoes... price: $24.99. Shocking to me to say the least... but I suppose this is an indication of what it takes to support snappy retail display space... zero cost inventory at a minimum must be priced at somewhere around $25 sq. ft. on a multilevel display case ($100 - $200 margins per actual floor space sq. footage) to support the inferstructure, multilayer management, and referigeration level air conditioning it takes to sell the goods.

Maybe it makes no difference... whether the plankton are healthy or the swardfish are seeminly healthy if you fish around enough... or the folks seeking swardfish are still showing up in droves and driving new beamers... and nevermind that swardfish isn't on the menu anymore, but has been replaced with fauxswardfish... made from a heavily seasoned soybean tofu product which was chemically "grown"... the new beamers are still showing up.