"Tectonic plates" from the front page.

Re: "Tectonic plates" from the front page.

Glenn Adams said:
Thanks

It is like a bell. This panel is just vibrating in air like a bell, but it is flat.

One reason I was thinking it did not feedback standing in front of it is that like my home Acoustats, if you add lots of surface you get lots of volume, but not the pressure or ( " Throw" har har ) like a horn. I can drive you right out of my listening room with level but you do not go because it doesn't drill you. You do not even realize how loud it is until you try to talk to someone else in the room.

That lower velocity is also met by cancelation from all other points on the panel, again a laymen understanding but, The direct sound form the closest point to a mic is canceled by a point slightly longer and longer and longer.


I have to play with one just to find out. A true wall of sound, it is off to the shop.
Click to expand...
A bell has NO polar pattern and makes NO sound!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

UNTIL it is struck. And just look at the striker. How many bells have you seen that have multiple strikers? None that I have seen. The ones I am aware of use a SINGLE striker-just like a single loudspeaker driver.

So how do you describe "volume". Most people think of it as Sound PRESSURE Level.

Any clean system will not sound loud until you try to talk. It happens all the time.

I'm sorry but I don't get the whole "Direct sound is canceled by reflections back into it".

Yes I will agree that SOME freq could be reduced. But that is the nature of combfiltering within the whole room due to different arrival times from loudspeakers and reflections (or multiple loudspeakers covering the same are), peaks and dips in the response.

But since the phase of different freq has different wavelengths-at a given distance from loudspeaker to reflective surface, at some freq the "returning wave" will be out of phase (causing cancellations) and OTHER freq will be in phase-CAUSING ADDITION in level. Other freq will be somewhere inbetween.

I'm sorry-but I need a better explanation to "understand" what is going on. I have just never heard of somebody trying to reduce feedback by adding more reflections. Maybe that is a new approach :)
 
Re: "Tectonic plates" from the front page.

Glenn Adams said:
Thanks

It is like a bell. This panel is just vibrating in air like a bell, but it is flat.

One reason I was thinking it did not feedback standing in front of it is that like my home Acoustats, if you add lots of surface you get lots of volume, but not the pressure or ( " Throw" har har ) like a horn. I can drive you right out of my listening room with level but you do not go because it doesn't drill you. You do not even realize how loud it is until you try to talk to someone else in the room.

That lower velocity is also met by cancelation from all other points on the panel, again a laymen understanding but, The direct sound form the closest point to a mic is canceled by a point slightly longer and longer and longer.


I have to play with one just to find out. A true wall of sound, it is off to the shop.
Click to expand...

I think this is what you are trying to describe -

http://www.tectonicaudiolabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Inteligibility.pdf
 

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Re: "Tectonic plates" from the front page.

I can never tell if these kinds of projects start out with intellectual dishonesty or they just drift that way when the physics doesn't match the hype.
 
Re: "Tectonic plates" from the front page.

Tim McCulloch said:
I can never tell if these kinds of projects start out with intellectual dishonesty or they just drift that way when the physics doesn't match the hype.
Click to expand...

Me too.
So using only its inertia a voice coil attached to a weight causing it to to move all that surface with all that air up against either side sounds like my electric shaver laying on the sink. At 60 cycles, it is loud. It is a battle of mass, the pucks against the panel + air.

Ivan - I did not say it was a bell, just vibrating like one; I know you have to hit it. Hammer or voice coil it is a surface being hit by something.

Come to think of it I do remember using one of these many years ago on a plate reverb I made. It worked, one was an exciter and the other was the mic. ( No Ivan it was not a real mic ) Pickup, I'll call it a pickup, not a truck.
 
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Re: "Tectonic plates" from the front page.

Is anyone close enough to take a field trip and listen to these in a venue? I am here in FL so it would be a bit far for me to get to one unless they've installed some in FL recently. While I remain a bit of a skeptic, a real live listening test would be elucidating, more so than our conjecture.
 
Re: "Tectonic plates" from the front page.

Tim McCulloch said:
I can never tell if these kinds of projects start out with intellectual dishonesty or they just drift that way when the physics doesn't match the hype.
Click to expand...
My guess is that they don't sound horrible.

It is the physical claims that I have a problem understanding.

Some manufacturers make all sorts of "claims" which they have nothing to back them up with, but it "sounds cool" and impresses people who don't look into it further or simply believe that it is "special".

There is a lot more to a loudspeaker than simple sound quality. Yes that IS important-but there are other factors that make it usable in certain situations and not usable in others.
 
Re: "Tectonic plates" from the front page.

Ouch! MSRP is $7,000.00. Don't know the street price yet but it is going to have to be dang good for 7K.
So what if they pack well if you have to use 4 times as many to cover a room?

I also found out the crossover to the ribbon is around 3 to 3.5Khz, not 7K. 7k was the price.
 
Re: "Tectonic plates" from the front page.

Ivan Beaver said:
My guess is that they don't sound horrible.
Click to expand...

I agree with you there, there are lots of speakers that fail to produce anything like a coherent wave-front that still sound really good. Of course, physics and the properties of air as a medium dictate that such speakers won't project as well and will have trouble maintaining tonal balance over a distance, but that is not necessarily a bad thing in a lot of applications.
 
Re: "Tectonic plates" from the front page.

Marjan Milosevic said:
My BS meter is peaking while i read that marketing blobbing.
Click to expand...
Never under estimate how powerful marketing and "technospeak" can convince people of things that are not possible.

But in the end-it is the performance that keeps people coming back. If that is not there-the "magic" and babble is soon forgotten.

But they did make a sale out of it-and that is all it was supposed to do. Not to actually do what was claimed.

Those statements go for all sorts of products in all kinds of industries.

Many manufacturers simply think (and I agree) that many/most people are simply stupid and will believe anything that is told to them-without thinking or researching it themselves.
 
Re: "Tectonic plates" from the front page.

Glenn Adams said:
Thanks

It is like a bell. This panel is just vibrating in air like a bell, but it is flat.
Click to expand...
A flat bell is not a bell...

The bell, because round/cylindrical shape shares non-harmonic partials with cymbals and drums.
One reason I was thinking it did not feedback standing in front of it is that like my home Acoustats, if you add lots of surface you get lots of volume, but not the pressure or ( " Throw" har har ) like a horn. I can drive you right out of my listening room with level but you do not go because it doesn't drill you. You do not even realize how loud it is until you try to talk to someone else in the room.

That lower velocity is also met by cancelation from all other points on the panel, again a laymen understanding but, The direct sound form the closest point to a mic is canceled by a point slightly longer and longer and longer.


I have to play with one just to find out. A true wall of sound, it is off to the shop.
Click to expand...

The flat diaphragm in electrostatic speakers (like quads) is very low mass and not rigid so does not support standing waves.

JR
 
Re: "Tectonic plates" from the front page.

I blew grant money slated for books on Magneplanar MG1's, a Phase Linear 400, and an Advent 300 receiver/pre.

The Maggie's demonstrated some of the advantages of yet-to-be named "line array" acoustics, as well as the physical output limitations of planar devices.

In the 35 years since, we have seen heads-up attempts to use planar/ribbon devices for reinforcement. Stage Accompany/SLS/Alcons, Peavey, etc. Characteristics of this approach are very attractive.


The limitation has always been max output level.
 
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Re: "Tectonic plates" from the front page.

Jim McKeveny said:
I blew grant money slated for books on Magneplanar MG1's, a Phase Linear 400, and an Advent 300 receiver/pre.

The Maggie's demonstrated some of the advantages of yet-to-be named "line array" acoustics, as well as the physical output limitations of planar devices.

In the 35 years since, we have seen heads-up attempts to use planar/ribbon devices for reinforcement. Stage Accompany/SLS/Alcons, Peavey, etc. Characteristics of this approach are very attractive.


The limitation has always been max output level.
Click to expand...

I still have a pair of Acoustats Model 3's, love em, you have to sit at just the right spot, but when you do they are really really good.

As for the Bell - I was refering to a vibrating surface like a bell. Now I get that a bell is omni and is a shape so I guess I should have called it a gong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDUK-kIDlEc

Yes Ivan, it still has to be hit with a hammer.

I got one of these surface speakers and mounted it to a board, hung it from a speaker stand open backed free air. Strange enough it works, not great but it would be an OK mid for home. Still not sure how they get 8 of these and a ribbon up to $7K, the shaker I got was all of 10 bucks.

There are 2 aluminum honeycomb panels on either side of the ribbon, each has 4 drivers mounted on them. ( I called them and talked to a tech, not a salesman)
Even though I used a 15 X 18 inch 1/4 in ply it was doing some highs. Stranger still that the highs were better at a 45 than straight on.
Mids on axis were stronger, less cancelation. No I do not have plots.
 
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