The SM58...
- Thread starter LiamSmith
- Start date
It's the cheapest gear threads that won't die. Just no one start a thread with a nude woman behind an X32 asking through a 58 what the best kick Mic is.
Re: The SM58...
I knew it was coming when I set myself up
Yes.......... an SM58.
I knew it was coming when I set myself up
Re: The SM58...
You have a good point. The only time I ever really have any feedback issues at all is when the stage area is not large enough for me to get the speakers properly positioned .... and even then I can get considerable volume with my rig. As I stated, I have had issues with guest performers or friends that use my system (without the IEM's ..... I swear some people think those ear buds are going to invade their body like on Star Trek) with wedge monitors. The 58's cause more of an issue then.
I like the detail and warmth of the 767's for our own use.... even without feedback issues.
You have a good point. The only time I ever really have any feedback issues at all is when the stage area is not large enough for me to get the speakers properly positioned .... and even then I can get considerable volume with my rig. As I stated, I have had issues with guest performers or friends that use my system (without the IEM's ..... I swear some people think those ear buds are going to invade their body like on Star Trek) with wedge monitors. The 58's cause more of an issue then.
I like the detail and warmth of the 767's for our own use.... even without feedback issues.
Re: The SM58...
@Brian,
I can see that if you are used to an SM58 and its pickup pattern that you would tend to want to use it instead of an ND767 (or other more detailed mic).
Although I must state that I have several different types of "standard" mic clips that work great with my ND767's. the ones that don't ... the Shure clips which are just slightly too small and very rigid.
Happy birthday Jay! Hope it is a good one.
No, I don't think one-size-fits-all. I think that there are better microphones than the SM58 for a band to pick from which will make them sound better with less work.... that are at about the same price.
As for powered speakers, for small rigs like mine, they are the best option out there. For larger rigs (accompanied by a qualified person to set them up well), there are better solutions.
@Peter,
I don't have any feedback issues with my rig. The ART HQ15 is set flat and used only for the high and low shelf.
Your assumption that I know so little about what causes feedback is incorrect.
I am picky about MY microphones. The OP stated an observation that I have also seen. The rabid defense of the SM58 is cult like IMHO.
I have done testing with SM58's on stage. You are correct, I could probably get the eq to keep the 58's from feeding back, but then they wouldn't sound the way I want them to. I see no reason why I would use them over the ND767's which don't need any eq and don't feedback as much (at all). I am not speculating that it is the microphone, I have tested it and know that it is. It isn't my gear, it isn't the way my gear is setup either.
The equipment I use isn't exactly crap. It isn't as good as the tour grade stuff some of you use, but it is not junk either. I have spent lots of time testing and researching the various parts of my PA to make sure I have a good and reliable bar rig. I have done a pretty good job. I can think of only 1 band in our area I have heard that has better sound (they are also a better band). They use an SRX rig and an LS9 along with Shure wireless IEMs and sound fantastic. They can also cover a bigger area than we can, but then again, they play for a living while I play as a hobby.
@Brian,
I can see that if you are used to an SM58 and its pickup pattern that you would tend to want to use it instead of an ND767 (or other more detailed mic).
Although I must state that I have several different types of "standard" mic clips that work great with my ND767's. the ones that don't ... the Shure clips which are just slightly too small and very rigid.
Happy birthday Jay! Hope it is a good one.
No, I don't think one-size-fits-all. I think that there are better microphones than the SM58 for a band to pick from which will make them sound better with less work.... that are at about the same price.
As for powered speakers, for small rigs like mine, they are the best option out there. For larger rigs (accompanied by a qualified person to set them up well), there are better solutions.
@Peter,
I don't have any feedback issues with my rig. The ART HQ15 is set flat and used only for the high and low shelf.
Your assumption that I know so little about what causes feedback is incorrect.
I am picky about MY microphones. The OP stated an observation that I have also seen. The rabid defense of the SM58 is cult like IMHO.
I have done testing with SM58's on stage. You are correct, I could probably get the eq to keep the 58's from feeding back, but then they wouldn't sound the way I want them to. I see no reason why I would use them over the ND767's which don't need any eq and don't feedback as much (at all). I am not speculating that it is the microphone, I have tested it and know that it is. It isn't my gear, it isn't the way my gear is setup either.
The equipment I use isn't exactly crap. It isn't as good as the tour grade stuff some of you use, but it is not junk either. I have spent lots of time testing and researching the various parts of my PA to make sure I have a good and reliable bar rig. I have done a pretty good job. I can think of only 1 band in our area I have heard that has better sound (they are also a better band). They use an SRX rig and an LS9 along with Shure wireless IEMs and sound fantastic. They can also cover a bigger area than we can, but then again, they play for a living while I play as a hobby.
Re: The SM58...
"Your assumption that I know so little about what causes feedback is incorrect."
Sorry, but you have said nothing here(especially that "cult" comment)to correct that "incorrect" assumption. There are just too many successful users of the 58 for you to blame your feedback problems on a mic.
"Your assumption that I know so little about what causes feedback is incorrect."
Sorry, but you have said nothing here(especially that "cult" comment)to correct that "incorrect" assumption. There are just too many successful users of the 58 for you to blame your feedback problems on a mic.
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Re: The SM58...
The best kick mic is obviously the SM58, and don't dare suggest otherwise.
Chris
The best kick mic is obviously the SM58, and don't dare suggest otherwise.
Chris
Re: The SM58...
... and your reading comprehension is suspect since I have clearly stated that I have no feedback issues .... and I doubt very much that you are sorry.
There were also many successful users of the Ford Pinto. It doesn't then follow that there was nothing wrong with the Ford Pinto just because you didn't happen to have it explode on you personally.
Just because I don't happen to agree with your assessment of the SM58 does not automatically make me stupid.
Surely you have something more productive to do than explain to me how inept I am because I don't use SM58's in my band?
@Caleb,
Replies like the above are the root of many long winded threads. Frequently the discussion deteriorates into "my dad is bigger than your dad" and any resemblance to intelligent conversation is thrown out the window.
@Chris,
I did use an SM57 once in a pinch ... but then again, I would never suggest that an SM57 is a good kick mic .... even though I did manage to make the band sound pretty good..... hey maybe everyone should use a SM57 for kick! You can make the kick sound good with one after all. All you have to do is know how to use the channel eq properly It is very durable and will never break on you. What other reason would you need?
... and your reading comprehension is suspect since I have clearly stated that I have no feedback issues .... and I doubt very much that you are sorry.
There were also many successful users of the Ford Pinto. It doesn't then follow that there was nothing wrong with the Ford Pinto just because you didn't happen to have it explode on you personally.
Just because I don't happen to agree with your assessment of the SM58 does not automatically make me stupid.
Surely you have something more productive to do than explain to me how inept I am because I don't use SM58's in my band?
@Caleb,
Replies like the above are the root of many long winded threads. Frequently the discussion deteriorates into "my dad is bigger than your dad" and any resemblance to intelligent conversation is thrown out the window.
@Chris,
I did use an SM57 once in a pinch
... but then again, I would never suggest that an SM57 is a good kick mic .... even though I did manage to make the band sound pretty good..... hey maybe everyone should use a SM57 for kick! You can make the kick sound good with one after all. All you have to do is know how to use the channel eq properly It is very durable and will never break on you. What other reason would you need?
Re: The SM58...
"Frank the Crazy German" mixes FOH for "guitar player you've heard of." He uses an SM58 in the kick drum. If you ask him why, he has a couple of satirical answers but the best I recall was "so people will leave the concert singing the kick drum part." He paused, then continued "No, if they don't leave singing (the encore song), I didn't do my job." IOW, even though he's mixing a rock show, he finds the kick drum to not be the most important part in the mix he does for his boss.
Save the Beyer M88, put an SM58 in there!
"Frank the Crazy German" mixes FOH for "guitar player you've heard of." He uses an SM58 in the kick drum. If you ask him why, he has a couple of satirical answers but the best I recall was "so people will leave the concert singing the kick drum part." He paused, then continued "No, if they don't leave singing (the encore song), I didn't do my job." IOW, even though he's mixing a rock show, he finds the kick drum to not be the most important part in the mix he does for his boss.
Save the Beyer M88, put an SM58 in there!
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Re: The SM58...
This is embarrassing but I cut a record that charted in the early 90's with 2 SM58's on a double kik drum set up with a XLR Y connector ran to channel 1.
This is embarrassing but I cut a record that charted in the early 90's with 2 SM58's on a double kik drum set up with a XLR Y connector ran to channel 1.
Re: The SM58...
I haven't being keeping up with this thread but this mic had a rusted on ball when I got it many many years ago and then after 8 years of being directly hit by drumsticks night after night it's still going strong. It's been subjected to below freezing temperatures and extreme heat and never missed a beat. And that is why a 58 is a 58....
I haven't being keeping up with this thread but this mic had a rusted on ball when I got it many many years ago and then after 8 years of being directly hit by drumsticks night after night it's still going strong. It's been subjected to below freezing temperatures and extreme heat and never missed a beat. And that is why a 58 is a 58....
I had 6 vocals on stage tonight... Eight fairly hot mixes (10x- Martin LE1200 wedges).
Two leads were female and carry a Shure Ur4d w/ two Beta87 capsules.
The sax player provides his own KMS105 for his backing vocals & an RF KSM-9 for when he sings lead out front.
My two background vocalists were on wired 58's.
Those freaking Martin wedges are so bright in passive mode that I was wishing everyone was on 58's, the whole night. The mixes were stable the whole night after some decent reduction on the top end with a parametric, but not ideal by a long shot.
The beta 87, 105 & ksm9 are all excellent mics. I use all three regularly and own a KMS104 myself for when the need arises... But in this situation, the 58 would have been a smarter choice.
The 58's sounded better in the wedges all night and with far less attention then the nicer ones, which all had far too much top end for those Martin wedges running hot.
Just my opinion though, from a real world point of view.
Two leads were female and carry a Shure Ur4d w/ two Beta87 capsules.
The sax player provides his own KMS105 for his backing vocals & an RF KSM-9 for when he sings lead out front.
My two background vocalists were on wired 58's.
Those freaking Martin wedges are so bright in passive mode that I was wishing everyone was on 58's, the whole night. The mixes were stable the whole night after some decent reduction on the top end with a parametric, but not ideal by a long shot.
The beta 87, 105 & ksm9 are all excellent mics. I use all three regularly and own a KMS104 myself for when the need arises... But in this situation, the 58 would have been a smarter choice.
The 58's sounded better in the wedges all night and with far less attention then the nicer ones, which all had far too much top end for those Martin wedges running hot.
Just my opinion though, from a real world point of view.
Re: The SM58...
Or use the technique I used to do to sraighten them out. Use wooden handle off of a old broom-shovel etc that has a rounded end. Chop off the "business end" and place the rounded end in the ball and pound it on the floor. You can 'work" it back into shape.
Or maybe some people prefer the "vintage look" you have.
Some of mine were almost that bad-and yes-they still worked fine
You can buy relacement balls pretty cheap.
Or use the technique I used to do to sraighten them out. Use wooden handle off of a old broom-shovel etc that has a rounded end. Chop off the "business end" and place the rounded end in the ball and pound it on the floor. You can 'work" it back into shape.
Or maybe some people prefer the "vintage look" you have.
Some of mine were almost that bad-and yes-they still worked fine
Re: The SM58...
The ball has been stuck rusted on there since I aquired the mic. I tried small amounts of wd40, channellocks, a vice. It won't budge. I guess I could try cutting the threaded part off with a dremel but at this point with so many mics in my inventory it's more of a conversation or prank piece.
The ball has been stuck rusted on there since I aquired the mic. I tried small amounts of wd40, channellocks, a vice. It won't budge. I guess I could try cutting the threaded part off with a dremel but at this point with so many mics in my inventory it's more of a conversation or prank piece.
Re: The SM58...
You are correct, I must be having a problem with my reading comprehension because I could have sworn you wrote this:
"I have never had a single instance that even a single SM58 on the stage did not increase the feedback potential. I have had this happen on many occasions"
And you are correct again - I am not sorry.
You are correct, I must be having a problem with my reading comprehension because I could have sworn you wrote this:
"I have never had a single instance that even a single SM58 on the stage did not increase the feedback potential. I have had this happen on many occasions"
And you are correct again - I am not sorry.
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Re: The SM58...
Okay, so we are 9 (NINE?!?!? WTF???) pages deep into this... well, thread.
The last time I looked at this forum was four days ago and we were six pages deep. At that time I couldn't believe it lasted 6 pages and now 9 pages??? Good grief!
The entire time Scott has been baiting and trolling everyone about his EV mics sounding better than an SM-58 at a similar price to the SM-58.
Frankly, I don't give two shits what mics Scott likes. I know which ones I like and use.
Everyone has their own opinions about what mics are best for whatever. The thing is, these forums are generally posted to by people who are providing sound services to other customers. It has been thoroughly noted that for people who are in the business of providing sound systems for others (most of the people who post on this forum), the SM-58 is unbeatable when it comes to price vs. performance vs. familiarity. Sure, that EV mic would probably win the "price vs. performance" challenge... but that isn't the only thing most people here have to deal with. If it is, good for you, go pick the mic you want to use and enjoy it. For those of us who have to provide some semblance of familiarity to people playing on the stage, we will NOT be using those mics because people are used to using the SM-58, they know the mics behave, and that is what they expect.
I used to work for a sound company that didn't own a single Shure mic (believe it or not). We had AKG mics instead because we were a dealer for AKG and not Shure. Yes, it always worked and I always had extra mics anyway... unfortunately we just couldn't get around that whole "It doesn't look like an SM-58!" thing. It was a complete pain to always have to assure everyone that "It works just like an SM-58."
Anyway, I say all this to say look Scott... I appreciate the notification that there is a better mic available at a similar price to the SM-58... really, I do. However to spend 9 pages attempting to brow-beat a group of people that are not disagreeing with you to start agreeing with you is pretty much a complete waste of time. I'm amazed that this thread has actually lasted this long. I'm glad you like your microphones! It is a good thing to not just follow the trends and get what everyone else has... sometimes you will (like you did) find something that is obviously better for a similar price. Kudos to you! However, demanding that everyone start buying these because only an idiot would buy something else is not a good idea and it makes you look pretty stupid. Why should anyone be required to do what you say? Why do you think there are so many manufacturers of audio equipment? This is an amazing land of choice and I choose to use what I know works the best for me.
To everyone else I say: YOU ALL KNOW BETTER THAN TO FEED THE TROLLS. Do not take the bait, do not feed the troll. Sure, you may not agree with him, but (as you all should know by now) an argument over the internet is only won by those who are not participating.
Okay, so we are 9 (NINE?!?!? WTF???) pages deep into this... well, thread.
The last time I looked at this forum was four days ago and we were six pages deep. At that time I couldn't believe it lasted 6 pages and now 9 pages??? Good grief!
The entire time Scott has been baiting and trolling everyone about his EV mics sounding better than an SM-58 at a similar price to the SM-58.
Frankly, I don't give two shits what mics Scott likes. I know which ones I like and use.
Everyone has their own opinions about what mics are best for whatever. The thing is, these forums are generally posted to by people who are providing sound services to other customers. It has been thoroughly noted that for people who are in the business of providing sound systems for others (most of the people who post on this forum), the SM-58 is unbeatable when it comes to price vs. performance vs. familiarity. Sure, that EV mic would probably win the "price vs. performance" challenge... but that isn't the only thing most people here have to deal with. If it is, good for you, go pick the mic you want to use and enjoy it. For those of us who have to provide some semblance of familiarity to people playing on the stage, we will NOT be using those mics because people are used to using the SM-58, they know the mics behave, and that is what they expect.
I used to work for a sound company that didn't own a single Shure mic (believe it or not). We had AKG mics instead because we were a dealer for AKG and not Shure. Yes, it always worked and I always had extra mics anyway... unfortunately we just couldn't get around that whole "It doesn't look like an SM-58!" thing. It was a complete pain to always have to assure everyone that "It works just like an SM-58."
Anyway, I say all this to say look Scott... I appreciate the notification that there is a better mic available at a similar price to the SM-58... really, I do. However to spend 9 pages attempting to brow-beat a group of people that are not disagreeing with you to start agreeing with you is pretty much a complete waste of time. I'm amazed that this thread has actually lasted this long. I'm glad you like your microphones! It is a good thing to not just follow the trends and get what everyone else has... sometimes you will (like you did) find something that is obviously better for a similar price. Kudos to you! However, demanding that everyone start buying these because only an idiot would buy something else is not a good idea and it makes you look pretty stupid. Why should anyone be required to do what you say? Why do you think there are so many manufacturers of audio equipment? This is an amazing land of choice and I choose to use what I know works the best for me.
To everyone else I say: YOU ALL KNOW BETTER THAN TO FEED THE TROLLS. Do not take the bait, do not feed the troll. Sure, you may not agree with him, but (as you all should know by now) an argument over the internet is only won by those who are not participating.
Re: The SM58...
Look, if you like the mic, by all means keep using it.
I appreciate that you do live sound and that this may be the best mic for your application. As I told another poster, you are going to be OK. I am not planning on breaking into your home some day and replacing all your SM58's with better microphones. There is no need to get upset that my opinion is not the same as yours.
I spend some time on various sound forums learning from sound professionals and other band members that do their own sound about lots of different kinds of gear. I have been doing this for over 10 years and will likely continue for the foreseeable future. There are lots more people like myself that run sound mostly for their own band than there are people like you who run sound for others. I could care less if you feel that this forum should be more exclusive and only allow the opinions of people that provide sound for a living.
Feel free to exercise a little restraint in replying. After all, you wouldn't want to "feed the troll" :roll:. I think that perhaps the only "bully" in this thread is you. You are also the only one in the thread to fall back on infantile name calling .... and suggesting that I am not qualified to post on the forum in the first place.
The SM58 is an "OK" microphone, but other microphones work better for most bands IME. This is my opinion, my experience, and I am entitled to post my opinion even if it doesn't agree with yours. (check it out, you gotta love that freedom of speech thing).
Look, if you like the mic, by all means keep using it.
I appreciate that you do live sound and that this may be the best mic for your application. As I told another poster, you are going to be OK. I am not planning on breaking into your home some day and replacing all your SM58's with better microphones. There is no need to get upset that my opinion is not the same as yours.
I spend some time on various sound forums learning from sound professionals and other band members that do their own sound about lots of different kinds of gear. I have been doing this for over 10 years and will likely continue for the foreseeable future. There are lots more people like myself that run sound mostly for their own band than there are people like you who run sound for others. I could care less if you feel that this forum should be more exclusive and only allow the opinions of people that provide sound for a living.
Feel free to exercise a little restraint in replying. After all, you wouldn't want to "feed the troll" :roll:. I think that perhaps the only "bully" in this thread is you. You are also the only one in the thread to fall back on infantile name calling .... and suggesting that I am not qualified to post on the forum in the first place.
The SM58 is an "OK" microphone, but other microphones work better for most bands IME. This is my opinion, my experience, and I am entitled to post my opinion even if it doesn't agree with yours. (check it out, you gotta love that freedom of speech thing).
Re: The SM58...
I can't be the first reply, but I can be the #178th!
Stop it, both of you, or I'll pull this car over and we'll have a little discussion that will make it hard to sit at at grandma's, okay?
/channeling parents
I'm glad we weren't discussing other forms of religion, like computer operating systems.
/satire
I think the ubiquity of the SM-58 cannot be overlooked. I'd assert that most initial impressions of a speaker system come from how the user's voice sounds to him/herself with an SM58 and I'd extend that to say most speaker system manufacturers take that into account to varying degrees. An entire industry is influenced by a single model of accessory. That doesn't make the 58 or any other model of microphone inherently correct.
Collecting microphones is fun, using them is funner .
I can't be the first reply, but I can be the #178th!
Stop it, both of you, or I'll pull this car over and we'll have a little discussion that will make it hard to sit at at grandma's, okay?
/channeling parents
I'm glad we weren't discussing other forms of religion, like computer operating systems.
/satire
I think the ubiquity of the SM-58 cannot be overlooked. I'd assert that most initial impressions of a speaker system come from how the user's voice sounds to him/herself with an SM58 and I'd extend that to say most speaker system manufacturers take that into account to varying degrees. An entire industry is influenced by a single model of accessory. That doesn't make the 58 or any other model of microphone inherently correct.
Collecting microphones is fun, using them is funner
.Re: The SM58...
LOL. Aww ma
Sounds like good sense to me.
I can't be the first reply, but I can be the #178th!
Stop it, both of you, or I'll pull this car over and we'll have a little discussion that will make it hard to sit at at grandma's, okay?
/channeling parents
I'm glad we weren't discussing other forms of religion, like computer operating systems.
/satire
I think the ubiquity of the SM-58 cannot be overlooked. I'd assert that most initial impressions of a speaker system come from how the user's voice sounds to him/herself with an SM58 and I'd extend that to say most speaker system manufacturers take that into account to varying degrees. An entire industry is influenced by a single model of accessory. That doesn't make the 58 or any other model of microphone inherently correct.
Collecting microphones is fun, using them is funner
LOL. Aww ma
Sounds like good sense to me.