Theater....Wireless Mics..... The Maddness.... Tips? Help?

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Nick Latkowski

Freshman
Jul 17, 2013
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Pittsburgh
Okay, So, Im currently a High School Student doing sound for our yearly musical at our school. To start, I'm not really an amateur at this. I've been working for a local production company for the last 3 years doing FOH, Monitors, lighting, staging, Etc. for small to mid scale concerts. (500-4500 people)

Equipment I Have to work with: 16 Sennheiser EW 100g3, Not particularly sure of the brand of earset mics as the install company never told us ( I Believe they are MM-PSM's though) 2 Presonus 16.4.2.

Problems: Absolutely no constant at all between rehearsals (Probably due to different mic placements on the actors faces every day), Actors that have been taught to "project" (scream, whatever you want to call it), 2 teacher directors that barely know what a microphone is (much less how to use one) up my ass constantly because they don't like the sound and won't shut up and let me do my job (Mainly the sound of a compressor kicking in so I don't go def as an actor suddenly gets louder, or a mic clipping)

I'm about out of bullshit excuses that they can actually comprehend to get them away from me. I can't really fix the actors, or the directors, but I can fix the mics and how they sound. anyone know of a way to try and get them to sound the same way (or at least close) one day as they do the next? Getting the mics (not the gain structure on the board) to not clip and cause distortion when they are yelled into?

Thanks in advance.
 
Re: Theater....Wireless Mics..... The Maddness.... Tips? Help?

Garbage in, garbage out. This is why all the big dollar engineers say that they push up the faders and get out of the way of the performance. They have talent to work with. Damage control mixing sucks.
 
Re: Theater....Wireless Mics..... The Maddness.... Tips? Help?

Loud actors are a good thing, though it does help if there is some consistency to the loudness. Have you got the transmitters set so they aren't clipping? If they have to be set differently from actor to actor make sure they get the same ones each time.

Who is placing the mics? Do it yourself if you can. If it's someone else it may be worth drawing a diagram or micing someone the way you want it done and taking a picture of it, and sticking it on the wall where the micing happens.

Chris
 
Re: Theater....Wireless Mics..... The Maddness.... Tips? Help?

Chris Nixon said:
Loud actors are a good thing, though it does help if there is some consistency to the loudness. Have you got the transmitters set so they aren't clipping? If they have to be set differently from actor to actor make sure they get the same ones each time.

Who is placing the mics? Do it yourself if you can. If it's someone else it may be worth drawing a diagram or micing someone the way you want it done and taking a picture of it, and sticking it on the wall where the micing happens.

Chris
Click to expand...


Transmitters are set so they don't clip. I started to monitor that a couple days ago. Generally, the actors put their own mics on. I have assigned them both packs, and mics. I have tried to keep an eye on the way they are miked, but I'm one vs 16 here. Also, one of the "genius" directors had the idea to grab a lapel mic as opposed to an earset for a few people because the mics clipping "could not be fixed technologically" (or they won't give me 5 minutes to do my job, one of the two haha) and they proceeded to place the mics in ridiculous places such as clipped to the frame of their glasses facing outward away from the person, and at the edge of their hair line in the center of their forehead also facing outward. Long story short, that genius idea failed them miserably like I told them it would haha.

Also, not very satisfied with the presonus boards. Don't like the compressors on them, and find them to be slow and annoying to use as opposed to their competors (Ls9, M7, X32) But, I'm spoiled and know there is much better out there. and thats a discussion for another thread. Haha.
 
Re: Theater....Wireless Mics..... The Maddness.... Tips? Help?

Get 3 Crown PCC (or perhaps another brand of unidirectional boundary mic and put them across the front of the stage. lose 3 wireless and throttle the rest back.

Label the wireless packs and get a wireless "wrangler" that insures each pac goes to the same actor each time. Anything else will drive you insane.

Make sure your speakers are up high, not just set on the stage. No mics to monitors. None period.

Wring out the PCC's to an inch of their life then cut back.

Don't even think about overhead choir mcs.
 
Re: Theater....Wireless Mics..... The Maddness.... Tips? Help?

Tim Perry said:
Get 3 Crown PCC (or perhaps another brand of unidirectional boundary mic and put them across the front of the stage. lose 3 wireless and throttle the rest back.

Label the wireless packs and get a wireless "wrangler" that insures each pac goes to the same actor each time. Anything else will drive you insane.

Make sure your speakers are up high, not just set on the stage. No mics to monitors. None period.

Wring out the PCC's to an inch of their life then cut back.

Don't even think about overhead choir mcs.
Click to expand...

Problem with mics on front of the stage is there is an orchestra right in front of them in the pit. Read my comment above for the second suggestion. The bottom of the 4 Jbl Vrx's a side that we have are about 20 ft or so up hanging from the ceiling. And dont even mention overhead mics. Theres 8 Audix m44 hanging all over the stage. They are the best thing ever invented to mankind, and sound amazing......... According to the directors that is. This is why they are turned up, unmuted...... and assigned to a sub group that is muted so they don't know they aren't on. Also according to them, bass and treble control on the board now have nothing to do with Low, Mid, and High Eq's. That's interesting isn't it? Wonder when that happened.:lol: and vocals should also now be in the subs to give them a bassy range or something.:lol::lol:
 
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Re: Theater....Wireless Mics..... The Maddness.... Tips? Help?

Talk to your directors- be respectful, don't treat them as if they're your enemies.

It's high school theatre. Everything will be different every day. As a start, as others have mentioned, make sure each actor is using the same microphone every day. Check over the placement of the microphones as well. Try to allocate 5 minutes before each rehearsal to get everyone dialed in individually, and as a group.

I think it's worth pulling the compressors off all the channels to start. Get everything under control without them, my guess is at this point they're doing more harm than good.
 
Re: Theater....Wireless Mics..... The Maddness.... Tips? Help?

Nick Latkowski said:
Okay, So, Im currently a High School Student doing sound for our yearly musical at our school. To start, I'm not really an amateur at this. I've been working for a local production company for the last 3 years doing FOH, Monitors, lighting, staging, Etc. for small to mid scale concerts. (500-4500 people)

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

In my opinion, if they are hearing the sound of a compressor kicking in you are using it too aggressively. First I must say that I tune the sound system for linearity, (what goes in is what comes out) or as close as I can get to that. I like to put all of the wireless with the same model mic element on them into a subgroup and EQ that sub group with an inserted EQ for best gain before feedback. This leaves me with the channel EQ to deal with the tonality of the individual on that channel. I usually also have a compressor inserted on this subgroup. This compressor can be set a little bit more aggressively with the threshold set relatively high. So if something really goes too over the top this will help to calm it down. But you still shouldn’t really be able to hear it work or it is set wrong. I don’t know what the compressors are like on the console you are using but try changing your setting to see if you can make them not so obvious. I will admit that there is one digital console that I don’t really like the built in compressor and I always insert an analog compressor (on the vocal subgroup) if I am forced to use that console. I happen to really like the sound of the DBX160 so if I can’t get that sound in the console I insert an analog DBX160.

Consistency in mic placement helps a lot. It can be very hard to put the packs and the mics on 16 people before a show and also do everything else you need to do. You should have a crew helping you with that. But it might be good for you to check the placement of the mic on each actor. We have been using 3M Transpore tape to hold the mics in place and to secure the cable (with just enough slack) down the neck. If the director has a problem with the shine off the clear tape get some concealer make up. Use only the stuff that looks like a crayon, the spray on stuff will dissolve the glue on the tape.

It sounds like you are dealing with a very difficult situation so keep in mind you will need to have your fingers on the faders and may need to be constantly compensating for these actors who are out of control.

I don’t know how you are doing a musical or play with a console (16.4.2) that doesn’t have motorized faders. Unless you are using the iPad app as your surface for the faders. Or are you not even using scenes? I have gotten to the point that I refuse to do a musical without the proper equipment and support.

I safe the trims so they don’t recall per scene. After everyone is miked up before the rehearsals or the show (before doors are opened) every night we have the actors line up across the stage (in mic number order) and I have them sing a group number. This is the time I set my trims after a few nights you hopefully don’t need to mess with them anymore but we still do this test. We instruct them to sing at performance level. And then I mute all the mics and un-mute them one at a time having them deliver a line at performance level going down the line. This tells me that everyone has the proper mic number and they are working properly.

Tell the teachers that are bugging you that you are doing the best you can and are aware of the problem and are working on it. Also let them know that the more they interrupt you while you are trying to work only distracts you more from what you are trying to do. From what I have seen it is hard for a teacher to trust a kid unless you prove yourself to them. Ask them to let you try to work it out and if you do a good job they will then trust you.

When does the show open?

I could probably write a book or at least an instructional manual about this stuff but this is it for now. If you have any specific questions I can help you with let me know.
 
Re: Theater....Wireless Mics..... The Maddness.... Tips? Help?

A bunch of people responded to you as I was writing my novel. Good luck with you shows. What show are you doing?
 
Re: Theater....Wireless Mics..... The Maddness.... Tips? Help?

Kevin Maxwell said:
In my opinion, if they are hearing the sound of a compressor kicking in you are using it too aggressively. First I must say that I tune the sound system for linearity, (what goes in is what comes out) or as close as I can get to that.....................

I could probably write a book or at least an instructional manual about this stuff but this is it for now. If you have any specific questions I can help you with let me know.
Click to expand...

Thanks Kevin. They are on Sub Groups according to model, Don't have a compressor or limiter on them though. I sadly don't have access to any rack gear what so ever, so im stuck with what is in the boards.

Have the 3m tape on them which has helped a lot, but at the same time it doesn't help the actors place their mic in the right place each time which isn't really their fault. It's something I should be watching over.

I try to keep my fingers on the faders as much as possible, though they have been busy lately with the eq's on the channels, which is why I have had the compressors set slightly aggressive.

As far as the board goes, don't remind me. Haha. I'm spoiled on boards that actually deserve to be called digital. (Ls9, M7, X32, etc) I have the Ipad and the app, just not a computer with fire wire, and the school district won't buy one........ Actually, they won't buy any more equipment we need.

I like the idea of having the actors do a group & individual number, I'll have to see how that one flies with everyone.

Have told the teachers that im working on it.... Countless times. As far as proving myself to them, they've both seen me do concerts outside of school before quite a few times. They're just a little bit power hungry in my opinion.

Show opens in a week and a half. Show we are doing is Tarzan.

Thanks again.
 
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Re: Theater....Wireless Mics..... The Maddness.... Tips? Help?

David Karol said:
Talk to your directors- be respectful, don't treat them as if they're your enemies.

It's high school theatre. Everything will be different every day. As a start, as others have mentioned, make sure each actor is using the same microphone every day. Check over the placement of the microphones as well. Try to allocate 5 minutes before each rehearsal to get everyone dialed in individually, and as a group.

I think it's worth pulling the compressors off all the channels to start. Get everything under control without them, my guess is at this point they're doing more harm than good.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response David. I do respect them as a person, and I don't treat them as an enemy. I more or less just have an opinion of give everyone a chance to do their job, and the results may surprise you.
 
Re: Theater....Wireless Mics..... The Maddness.... Tips? Help?

1) You absolutely need a mic wrangler.
2) You need a tech rehearsal dedicated to audio. This is the place to set channel EQ (for things you don't expect to change, like corrective EQ for mic placement). This is also the time to sort out pack gains and mic placement on the actors.
3) I agree on losing the compression in general, but I fully understand using it to take the edge off of shouts.
 
Re: Theater....Wireless Mics..... The Maddness.... Tips? Help?

Nick Latkowski said:
they proceeded to place the mics in ridiculous places such as clipped to the frame of their glasses facing outward away from the person, and at the edge of their hair line in the center of their forehead also facing outward. Long story short, that genius idea failed them miserably like I told them it would haha.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't call those locations ridiculous at all. For high school theater it may be difficult due to inexperience, but hairline omni lavs is how Broadway and professional theater has been doing musicals for a long time. Place the element where you want it, take a picture of its location and print it out for the actors to reference in their dressing rooms.
 
Re: Theater....Wireless Mics..... The Maddness.... Tips? Help?

Absolutely a mic wrangler. You can't handle the board, eq, and stage duties.
See if you can get another teacher to work with the wrangler after specific education.
Have the mic wrangler talk with each student about the importance of what the mic does for them -
try to educate them so they come to the wrangler, teacher, or you if they feel the mic is not placed correctly.
frank
 
Re: Theater....Wireless Mics..... The Maddness.... Tips? Help?

Mic wranglers are your friend. I forced my director to give me some (and someone to run the 177 sound cues during the show while I got to play at FoH) last year. I bought them both whatever food they wanted after every rehearsal and I'll tell you what- NO STRESS. Consistent mic placement, coordinated wireless, accurate cues, and a solid mix (at least, what I could do on a non-recall analogue).

I agree with Cameron on the fact that those locations aren't ridiculous (unless you have direction lavs - in which case I feel for you more than you can possibly imagine), but rather just unpredictable and frustrating. It's always about what works best for what you have.

But seriously. Get and train a wrangler. I never let actors (eugh) touch the microphones or body packs anyway - I always lock the body packs and tape the microphones to their face before sending them off for makeup with a stern, "don't touch."
 
Re: Theater....Wireless Mics..... The Maddness.... Tips? Help?

Nick Latkowski said:
Equipment I Have to work with: 16 Sennheiser EW 100g3, Not particularly sure of the brand of earset mics as the install company never told us ( I Believe they are MM-PSM's though) 2 Presonus 16.4.2.

Problems: Absolutely no constant at all between rehearsals (Probably due to different mic placements on the actors faces every day), Actors that have been taught to "project" (scream, whatever you want to call it), 2 teacher directors that barely know what a microphone is (much less how to use one) up my ass constantly because they don't like the sound and won't shut up and let me do my job (Mainly the sound of a compressor kicking in so I don't go def as an actor suddenly gets louder, or a mic clipping)
Click to expand...

My first suggestion is to take a couple of hours with a friend or helper and listen to how the mic/beltpacks sound. I've found that HS musical equipment (especially the headset mics) get beat on pretty hard. They get gummed up with makeup and dirt, and it can *really* affect how they sound. I've also found the mic/beltpack/receiver combination can vary in gain quite a bit. Clean the mics out (carefully) if they are dirty, and take the time with the helper to ring out the mics, set levels on beltpacks and receivers, and adjust the EQ and compression. You'll need a helper who isn't afraid to sing or talk loudly on stage. Ask you teachers/directors to use the auditorium when the rest of the cast/crew aren't there so you can get work done without interruptions.

I for one find compression necessary with most musicals I do. The level of which varies by singer. This may seem obvious, but make sure your mic/channel assignments stay the same day to day with the mic going to the same singer/speaker. This will get you more consistent results.
 
Re: Theater....Wireless Mics..... The Maddness.... Tips? Help?

Thanks to everyone who replied. I appreciate it more than you may believe. I'm much more used to mixing concerts. I only do theatre once a year or so, and don't have much background in it. Also, I'm not trying to be cocky or throw my directors under the bus or anything as much as it sounds like I am. I am just trying to explain my situations and opinions on it.
 
Re: Theater....Wireless Mics..... The Maddness.... Tips? Help?

Nick Latkowski said:
Transmitters are set so they don't clip. I started to monitor that a couple days ago. Generally, the actors put their own mics on. I have assigned them both packs, and mics. I have tried to keep an eye on the way they are miked, but I'm one vs 16 here. Also, one of the "genius" directors had the idea to grab a lapel mic as opposed to an earset for a few people because the mics clipping "could not be fixed technologically" (or they won't give me 5 minutes to do my job, one of the two haha) and they proceeded to place the mics in ridiculous places such as clipped to the frame of their glasses facing outward away from the person, and at the edge of their hair line in the center of their forehead also facing outward. Long story short, that genius idea failed them miserably like I told them it would haha.

Also, not very satisfied with the presonus boards. Don't like the compressors on them, and find them to be slow and annoying to use as opposed to their competors (Ls9, M7, X32) But, I'm spoiled and know there is much better out there. and thats a discussion for another thread. Haha.
Click to expand...


The mic on the hairline and the mic on the glasses are not bad places to put a mic. But, there is always a but, in this case the but is, this means that you now had different tonality between the ear set mics that are closer to the mouth and the other mics that are farther away from the actors mouth. And also since they are different type of mics they sound different in and of themselves regardless of placement. I have mixed and matched different mics and placements every once in a while. They are usually best used when you can put each type of mic in its own subgroup and EQ each subgroup for the specific mics in them.

I assume that all of the mics, ear set and lav are omni directional. The aiming of an omni is almost irrelevant. On glasses aiming out and at the hairline aiming out if just fine, an omni doesn’t care. If you have noticed on TV lately a lot of times you will see the mics are worn facing down instead of at the persons mouth.

You will also have different levels between the ear set mics and the others. In general if 2 actors are close to each other (with the same placement of the mics) you may need to use only one mic for both of them at times. And this can become even more critical with a mic farther away from their mouth.

So you directors aren’t as crazy as you think. Keep in mind that what you think of someone will affect how you interact or treat them.

You will very rarely see the ear set boom mics used on Broadway. But also their sound systems are probably using about a million dollars in gear.
 
Re: Theater....Wireless Mics..... The Maddness.... Tips? Help?

I just looked at the owners manual for the 16.4.2 and it looks like it has a compressor and a 4 band parametric EQ on all of the subgroups.

It sounds like you need to start from the beginning on a few things. In my opinion, if you have to use the channel EQ to chase feedback you are fighting a loosing battle to start with. Does this console have Smaart built into it? If it does learn to use it. One trick I do is I set up Smaart and use a wireless mic as the measurement mic to try and EQ them for best gain before feed back. If you don’t have Smaart in the console you could use an RTA app on your smart phone to get you close. I will write this up in more detail if you request it.
 
Re: Theater....Wireless Mics..... The Maddness.... Tips? Help?

Nick, Are the rehearsals going any better? Have you had a chance to try and implement any of the suggestions from here yet?
 
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