Time to upgrade my amps...

J

JOSEPH DIXON

Freshman
Jan 16, 2011
21
0
0
Indiana
OK, here's the deal. I have $3400.00. I plan to upgrade my power amps.

Here's what I have.
3 RMX 2450's
1 RMX 4050HD
1 PLX 3602
and the 'ol Driverack PA.

I have a pair of SRX 722's and three SRX 728's. I haven't bought a forth sub YET because I wouldn't be able to fit it my van anyway. I've been using an RMX 4050HD on the subs and a PLX3602 on the tops. I use two of the 2450's for four monitor mixes.

I've ran several other 728 / 725 combos with bigger power and more headroom. I don't have much headroom. I just can't stand to see the red lights on the 4050HD flashing with every kick drum hit anymore. With only $3400.00, I didn't think I'd be able to get enough of the correct amps to be able to bi amp my tops. So I just figured I would just get a used Itech 6000 and an Itech 4000 and at least be better off than I am now.

The good - I love the weight of the Itechs. I like the 4 ohm stereo rating. I like the power draw - which is VERY important to me.

The not so good - I am intimidated by the DSP. I don't like the 2 ohm stereo rating. I'd need to be able to run two 728's per side of the IT6000, but the stereo 2 ohm rating is only 2500 watts.

So then I started thinking about the QSC PL380. I don't know a whole lot about them really. I love the ease (no DSP to mess up) of operation. I love the stereo 4 and 2 ohm rating. The weight is good but I'm pretty sure I've read in some older posts that they draw a lot more AC than the Itechs. I often only get 2 circuits for PA...

Then I thought about bridging, which I'm a bit afraid of doing anyway. I think I'd really draw a lot of AC and add a lot of weight to the amp rack though. I'd love to be able to bi amp the 722's. I don't know what to do exactly. I've got $3400.00 and the amps I listed above.

A buddy of mine uses an XTI 6000 on his 728's and an XTI 6000 on his 725's. The rig sounds good but the sub amp seems to strain (?) a bit, like the recovery isn't quite there? Plus, it seems used IT4000's and IT6000's are cheaper than XTI 6000's anyway.

I really don't know what to do. IF you were in my situation, what would you do?

Thanks everybody.
 
Re: Time to upgrade my amps...

When you figure it out let me know!
I have been struggling with the same issues, with the same amps!!
Don't have a clue about DSP, don't like all the failures I have read up on with the Itechs, Love QSC but just not sure about the PL380 on sub duty....
The list just goes on and on and on...........
 
Re: Time to upgrade my amps...

Vinny D'Agostino said:
When you figure it out let me know!
I have been struggling with the same issues, with the same amps!!
Don't have a clue about DSP, don't like all the failures I have read up on with the Itechs, Love QSC but just not sure about the PL380 on sub duty....
The list just goes on and on and on...........
Click to expand...

The failures on the Itech's was in the early stages of there life. Those bugs have been worked out. The dsp isn't hard to learn, download SA from Harmons website and just take a look at it.
If you were to look at the amount of Itech users on this forum and the quantity of those amps in the field versus the failure rate, you might be surprised at the low rate of failures.

Steve "happy Itech user" Ferreira
 
Re: Time to upgrade my amps...

I mainly run a small system 2 mrx 515's and 2 srx 718's. I was previously using the 4050, one channel for subs and the other for tops. I just recently picked up a used IT 6000 because the price was right, it is light weight and has more than enough power for my application. I have noticed an overall improvement in the systems performance. I would like to use the advanced DSP functions but do not have the confidence to do so yet.


It would be awesome to have a "sticky" ITECH help thread.
 
Re: Time to upgrade my amps...

Vinny D'Agostino said:
Didn't say I would not buy one, just didn't like reading about all the failures......besides, the Edsel wasn't that bad.........was it :)
Click to expand...

I wasn't keen on the I-Techs because of the first-run problems (and there were some doozies), but when the owners of 2 major tour providers said "any I-Tech that has been working properly for the last 6 months is no more likely to fail than any other model in our inventory" I took them off my "absolutely NOT" list. That was in 2008. We got our first 8 IT-6000, then another 4 6000 and 8 IT-8000. No "Flame Linear" moments, no in-show failures... in fact, nothing that *required* swap-outs at venue. We're up to ~50 units now. For the number of units owned, our old iron MacroTechs were statistically less reliable, and they we're pretty darn good.

Back in 2004-2005 I gave Crown a very hard time over the Itechs & our Harman Rep (who, to this day, has yet to pay a personal visit to our shop). As far as Crown goes, the product has proven itself and we're happy owners. Note that we were not early adopters and didn't have to go through what a number of owners did. Crown was "Harman-opaque" about the issues that came up BUT fixed or replaced every owner's problem amps without a quibble, going so far as to ship advance replacements in certain circumstances.

At this point, the technology is more than ready for prime time and I don't think anyone should be worried about the original (or HD series) ITechs... and I was one of the hardest guys to sell on them. Today the original models represent an incredible value and my only regret is that we weren't in a position to buy another dozen before the B-stock and refurbs were sold out.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc
 
Re: Time to upgrade my amps...

Realistically, in any rig deployed today, DSP will be in use. So whether it is in the amplifier or in an external DSP is irrelevant; the parameters are mostly the same. The Itechs have far, far more DSP horsepower than most external DSPs, and considering you get separate DSP for every amp channel, the possibilities for deployment are nearly endless.

Yes, I'm a Crown fanboy; I've owned a ton of the old Itechs and I currently use Itech HDs. I've had a couple of the old amps blow up on me pre-show (they always seem to do it right after powering up, never during), but with so much power available it wasn't hard to allocate a channel from another amp to fill in.

The new Itech HDs don't seem to have the same problems the original Itechs did, and I'd say that there are few 'original' Itechs left that haven't been upgraded to eliminate the explosion problems.

Remember that power is power- one amp bridged, or two amps stereo, or fifty amps, all producing the same total watts, is still only going to draw about the same amount off the wall. And remember, that you can put 100,000 watts of amplifer on one circuit, it's how much you actually draw (by turning it up) that is going to trip the breaker, not the power potential.

Most of the class D/I amps are in the 90% efficiency range, so they are more power efficient than the class AB/H amps you're using now, but comparing them to each other is pretty pointless.

In your situation, I'd do pretty much what you want to do: buy two Itechs and don't biamp. The stock JBL crossovers are plenty good enough to use fullrange.

I'd avoid the XTi series like the plague, and maybe even try the new Itech HD series. The sound quality upgrade of the HDs is absoutely worth it, in my opinion.
 
Re: Time to upgrade my amps...

Tim McCulloch said:
"...all the failures..." were 4 years ago. This is like saying you won't buy a Ford because they built the Edsel.
Click to expand...

The Ford Edsel itself didn't have significant problems, the Edsel just didn't sell well, it was a marketing failure.

My Dad picked up a mint 2 year old 1958 Edsel Ranger 2 door in 1960. Great running dependable vehicle, as best a 5 through 10 y.o. could remember ;>) He used to get some grief for it as head mechanic at a Buick-Pontiac dealership.
It had the first in the middle of steering column push button transmission buitton shifting in place of the common horn button. Had a horn ring, instead. First car my Mom learned to drive on. She had a heckava time adjusting to a normal column auto stick lever on the next car we got. Anyways, I remember a great car with a funny looking nose. The world apparently wasn't as ready as today for luxury sub-brands from major auto makers.

Now, AMC Pacer, THAT'S a whole 'nother story.

Defender of the Edsel,

Bommerweps
 
Re: Time to upgrade my amps...

Jeff Babcock said:
Not necessarily.
I often run a PL380 on a 15 amp circuit loaded to 2 ohms on sub duty and have never had a problem. Having said that, the amp was never driven to the edge. It is certainly not ideal, but it can work.
Click to expand...

The PL380 is a significantly wimpier amp than an IT8000 or the IT12000HD, so it obviously draws less. 3dB is double the power, and could be the difference between 15 and 30 amps drawn off the wall. Just sayin.
 
Re: Time to upgrade my amps...

Tim McCulloch said:
"...all the failures..." were 4 years ago. This is like saying you won't buy a Ford because they built the Edsel.
Click to expand...

The Edsel wasn't so much an issue for me. It was the Pinto 3-door Combustable model and Ford's ill handling of it that's my reasoning for never buying one of their products. Now I have nothing against Crown as they seem to have dealt with the issue in a relatively fair and timely manner, save for some sporadic reports of some customers not getting their due service.

Greg
 
Re: Time to upgrade my amps...

Scott Smith said:
You aren't concerned about DSP, and you are concerned about a 2 ohm rating... seems to me the PL380 would be a much better option.
Click to expand...

The itechs work fine at 2 ohms. If you can give them the AC they need, they will put out significantly more power at 2 ohms for a very short duration. Like a kick drum hit. The rating listed in the manual is for a broadband constant noise.

Look at the 20ms burst rating. 4570 watts per channel available for a kick drum hit is nothing to sneeze at! Thats 2285 watts per sub, times 4 subs.
 
Re: Time to upgrade my amps...

Tim Weaver said:
The itechs work fine at 2 ohms. If you can give them the AC they need, they will put out significantly more power at 2 ohms for a very short duration. Like a kick drum hit. The rating listed in the manual is for a broadband constant noise.

Look at the 20ms burst rating. 4570 watts per channel available for a kick drum hit is nothing to sneeze at! Thats 2285 watts per sub, times 4 subs.
Click to expand...

Hmm, thanks for pointing that out. That certainly changes things. Great post!
 
Re: Time to upgrade my amps...

JOSEPH DIXON said:
Hmm, thanks for pointing that out. That certainly changes things. Great post!
Click to expand...

I have been playing around with my newly aquired IT8000.
Channel 1 is running subs limited to 2400w @ 2ohms.
Channel 2 is running highs limited to 2000w @ 4ohms.
In testing in my basement I have driven the amp as loud as it would be driven in a club (looking at the meters anyway) and I have not tripped the 15a outlet it's plugged into.
I can't say that the pictures and certain items that *were* on my shelves have survived however.
 
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