Top Ways To Annoy A Sound Engineer

Re: Top Ways To Annoy A Sound Engineer

Jay Barracato said:
No matter how you coil them I am pretty sure xlr cables should not be used to:

1. Hang boxes
2. Secure things to trusses
3. Secure trusses
4. Strap down boxes in the truck/trailer
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I agree. On the other hand, they can sometimes have amazing tensile strength, and surprisingly can fit into some ratchet straps.
 
Re: Top Ways To Annoy A Sound Engineer

My shorter cords, 10' or less (my shortest this side of my 3' DMX cables are probably around 6') I put the 2 ends side by side, half it again, and then tie it in a knot. Not loose enough to fall apart, not gorilla tight either.
 
Re: Top Ways To Annoy A Sound Engineer

Rob Gow said:
My shorter cords, 10' or less (my shortest this side of my 3' DMX cables are probably around 6') I put the 2 ends side by side, half it again, and then tie it in a knot. Not loose enough to fall apart, not gorilla tight either.
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i over/under EVERYTHING, even those whisper thin lav mic cables. It's just a habit. the only things i tie in a knot are premolded RCA cables, which are disposable anyway....
 
Re: Top Ways To Annoy A Sound Engineer

One thing that grinds my axe: "We'll have the stage set the day before." And the stage isn't set at 6:00am the day of... 6:00am being when I said I'd arrive. And the stage still isn't set at 10:00am, or noon (sound checks were scheduled for 10:00am gates open at noon, first band goes on at 1:00pm). Stage arrives at 12:30 and is pretty much set by 1:00pm... and I have 2 - 3 hours of set-up to do.

Another thing: Nobody from the committee remembered or thought to let me know they moved the location of the venue..."But it was announced on the local radio station."

Another thing: Nobody remembered or thought to make sure to turn off the automatic sprinkler system in the park for the evening of the concert in the park... even though I repeated asked about this detail and was repeated reassured the automatic sprinkler system would be off.

Another thing: Stuff on riders that absolutely must be supplied, but doesn't get used. I understand "I'm getting paid to bring it", and I understand specifying a 40+ channel board even though the band only has 16 inputs... but the "out of left field stuff" that involves hundreds of miles of driving to source and doesn't get used... eh... something's just wrong with that.

Another thing: "Borrowing gaff (duct orduck) tape." "have" I believe is the correct word to describe... "I'll bring back what I don't use-up" would also be appropriate wording.

Another thing: Vehicles illegally parked and blocking access... and the "oh, they'll be right back".

Another thing: Vendors, RV's owners, etc... that figure it's ok to just "plug into your distro"... or worse: The ones who unplug some of your stuff from your distro, so they can plug their stuff in. Or worse: The ones that really cop an attitude when you unceremoniously unplug their stuff from your distro,and retrieve your extension cords that they appropriated.

Another thing: Being assured a canopy (stagecover) will be provided, and it isn't.

Another thing: Stapling posters to my FOH cabinets.

One of the worst things: Raiding my fairly well stashed Dr. Pepper cooler, and taking all of them. Geeze... couldn't they have had the decency to at least leave one?
 
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Re: Top Ways To Annoy A Sound Engineer

W. Mark Hellinger said:

Another thing: Nobody remembered or thought to make sure to turn off the automatic sprinkler system in the park for the evening of the concert in the park... even though I repeated asked about this detail and was repeated reassured the automatic sprinkler system would be off.
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Yep, pulled up to set up for show in a park, sprinklers were on soaking the front of the stage deck, make some calls, we unload some stuff and keep it up stage, about an hour goes by sprinklers still on, we get the idea to set some of my safety cones over the sprinkler heads to block the spray, works great!!!!
Well at about the same time I place the last cone over the last of the three sprinklers that were hitting the stage I hear a guy yelling at me from the across the park. Seems he didn't like someone "tampering" with public property, comes over all pissed and talking about calling the cops, I said call them, didn't know if someone was going to take care of this in the next five minutes or two hours.
 
Re: Top Ways To Annoy A Sound Engineer

Tim McCulloch said:
That has legal implications, and not in favor of the sound man...

Run For Your Lives... | SPLnetwork.com
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ha, Thats a nice article. I am not worried. Most of the bands that pull this are up a shit creek without even a canoe when it comes to sound. Its annoying because It means they would like to not hire me back, even though I fully did my job and they were happy with my work. I will gladly give them the show files as I know that the next time they go to use the file it will still not be as good as having a true engineer for the band and venue. This is one thing I hate even about other engineers. "oh I dont need a sound check or anything Ive got my USB key." Then they wonder why the openers sound better with a fresh slate and just a line check.
 
Re: Top Ways To Annoy A Sound Engineer

Tim McCulloch said:
That has legal implications, and not in favor of the sound man...

Run For Your Lives... | SPLnetwork.com
Click to expand...

Everyone should read that article. It really puts things in perspective. Even legal reasons aside I never considered keeping a show file from a band or any other engineer because in my mind the real crime is "bad sound" and if they had a file from me at least it would not start out any worse than that.
 
Re: Top Ways To Annoy A Sound Engineer

Does it count as a "work for hire" if "create a show file" isn't in the job description?

If the job description is simply "mix the show" and in order to make your life easier you decide to create a show file, does the band own that?

It wasn't on the list of things you were being paid for, so it is "for hire"?

Chris
 
Re: Top Ways To Annoy A Sound Engineer

IMO if band management isn't making sure everything is backed up so the loss of anything or anyone doesn't crash the tour it's time to get new management. I'm actually a software contractor IRL and I've had to just about force employers to maintain backups sometimes. What would happen if I (or someone else on the project) was hit by a bus or got pissed off and wiped what they have access to? Heck, one place they wanted us to use passwords and encryption keys but didn't keep track of those anywhere - that's just stoopid...
 
Re: Top Ways To Annoy A Sound Engineer

Chris Nixon said:
Does it count as a "work for hire" if "create a show file" isn't in the job description? If the job description is simply "mix the show" and in order to make your life easier you decide to create a show file, does the band own that? It wasn't on the list of things you were being paid for, so it is "for hire"?
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I know we are just being hypothetical here but we do have to ask ourselves do we want to be "that guy" or would we want to hire "that guy"? "That guy" quite probably will never work at anything but mixing a dive bar band again, no?
 
Re: Top Ways To Annoy A Sound Engineer

Ron Kimball said:
we do have to ask ourselves do we want to be "that guy" or would we want to hire "that guy"?
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I totally agree. I'm currently working on a show file that I will be sending to multiple other people involved with the production, just in case they ever need it for something. That said, I'm not sure if they would have any legal rights to it given that creating the show file is something extra that I'm doing of my own accord to make my job easier.

Chris
 
Re: Top Ways To Annoy A Sound Engineer

Real sound men can start from scratch anywhere anytime and make it happen. If someone else is depending on a show file to even get a useable sound then what happens as all the other problems come up? In my opinion it is really a moot point. The old my girlfriends brother or the singer's friend is going to be the soundman now is something that usually only happens with bar bands and it has very little to do with talent. A show file is only a place to start and does not work by itself in every different room or situation as you all know.

Here is a perfect example: I am sure everyone here has set up the board and handed it off to an "aspiring" sound engineer or BE. How many times does it actually improve? How many times does it go downhill? How many times does it actually go downhill to the point that you have to fix it because they can't even get back to what they started with?

The very few times at the local level it actually got better (2 to be exact in the last several hundred shows over almost 10 years) I have either hired or tried to hire them to work with my company. Several times when it started going downhill and the "soundman" actually asked me for help and tried to learn something I ended up with an apprentice and later an employee. Some of those guys are now out with touring acts or have senior positions in local venues now.

The sad reality is that most up and coming engineers at the very best need lots of improvement and at the very worst completely suck and should move away from the board before any more damage is done. Any real engineer doesn't need your files anyway. How many of you would depend solely on someone else's show file? I would say thanks and then fire it up and see what is there. Maybe it would save some set up and patching time, maybe not. There is the outside possibility that it would be amazing and blow me away but I have never seen anything like that. I have only been able to have "less" work to do.
 
Re: Ways to annoy a sound guy

Jimmy Hardin said:
He might have been using sarcasm, but on a computer it's hard to tell at times weather someone is either being sarcastic or just plainly being a smart with someone. I probably took it the wrong way. sorry guys. :)
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When I use sarcasm or similar mis-interpretable things in forums I most typically will use tags to signify it:



<begin sarcasm/whatever mis-interpretable thing I'm attempting to convey>

Real men wrap cables like Clark W. Griswold
ball-of-lights.jpg
Jake only wishes he was that pro! ;)~;-)~:wink:

</sarcasm / whatever mis-interpretable thing I'm attempting to convey>



No offense to Jake of course..... Jimmy, FWIW, you might want to read some of Jake's blogs on this forum. It is useful to know some background on the folks in this forum, some of which are tremendously experienced pros.
 
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Re: Top Ways To Annoy A Sound Engineer

Chris Nixon said:
It would in my case, it's a theatre show with about 50 cues. :razz: I don't want someone else to have to re-program all those if something happens to me.

Chris
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Those kinds of shows are the exception. I spent a month or so programming (as the show developed) an automated mix that included up to 16 different tracks and an 11 piece band for a high end casino act. I believe it had 72 scenes during the 2 hour show and was only done in the one room. I actually signed a contract that gave all the intellectual property to the producer which included the multitrack recordings I had done for the show which is the way it should be. I was after all hired to do just that. I actually went as the senior engineer to the first 2 shows. After that I was confident that anyone else could babysit. In this case we did all the practicing and programming in a rehearsal room in another state but everything translated well. I had to make a few main out and monitor EQ tweaks during the dress rehearsal at the actual room at the casino the first day but other than that I just watched the motorized faders do their thing.
 
Re: Top Ways To Annoy A Sound Engineer

Tim McCulloch said:
That has legal implications, and not in favor of the sound man...

Run For Your Lives... | SPLnetwork.com
Click to expand...

Unless you specifically outline your duties in contract form, I would not want to have to fight the ownership battle.

It would not be hard to add a line to your contract for a one off show saying show files and settings remain the possession of the engineer and cannot be used by others.

One of three things will happen:
1. The acts management doesn't care, they want you to mix a show, today, and are not thinking about future events.
2. The acts management doesn't understand the implications and will happily agree.
3. The acts management refuses that line, thereby indicating they want access to the file in the future, with or without the person that developed it. That means the product they expect is more than a single show, and should be priced accordingly.

I think as an independent contractor, it is your own obligation to carefully define the scope of your job, because management is going to try to get all they can for their money.
 
Re: Top Ways To Annoy A Sound Engineer

Evan F. Hunter said:
This is one thing I hate even about other engineers. "oh I dont need a sound check or anything Ive got my USB key." Then they wonder why the openers sound better with a fresh slate and just a line check.
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Or the show file they have saved for your console is from a festival they did in Helsinki two years ago, has a third of the channels re-assigned, all the outputs taken from the matrix, and in general so much stuff messed up that it takes more time to fix it than it would have taken to start a new file from scratch.
 
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