TVI Audio C210ii Line Array

[Brad Weber]

Re: TVI Audio C210ii Line Array

Or recognizing that at the bottom of the market, not everybody has time to model the room and run the array prediction software.

I'm not talking full predictive modeling, in this case it's apparently not even any simple array prediction software or recommended practices as offered by just about any other 'line array' manufacturer even for entry level products. Those without the knowledge to approach it on their own would seem the most likely to be negatively affected from a manufacturer not providing the tools to properly apply their products.

 

[Ivan Beaver]

Re: TVI Audio C210ii Line Array

Or recognizing that at the bottom of the market, not everybody has time to model the room and run the array prediction software. And that's assuming that the arrays are long enough that they aren't better treated as vertical arrays of "point'n'shoot" boxes vs. a line array.

</flamebait>

And how long does it take to use basic aiming software-you put in the depth of the audience-the number of boxes and the height of the hang.

Less time than it takes to smoke a cigarette or a quick chat with the cute bartender.

If you don't have 5 minutes to THINK about how to get the best sound for a particular room with a particular system, then you don't need to be doing audio.

At least that's the way I feel. There is a lot more to it than just "turning it up loud"-although that impresses most people

 

[Brandon Blakeney]

Re: TVI Audio C210ii Line Array

The TVI's survived a huge rainstorm that came through this weekend at an outdoor festival we did. The boxes (powered) were soaked, but after the rain subsided they kept on truckin' all night long. They spent the day today out in the sun and all tested fine.

Before anybody says anything: (1)the barricade was there to keep people from running over my snake as that picture was taken early in the day (2) the little stage in front of the stage was for a local band to play before the headliners and I had no say so in its placement, they brought their own pa which was Crate and Behringer (3) Yes, more than 5 channels were being used on the console...drums were shared and that band's guitars, bass, vocals, etc... were right of the center section.

 

[Shane Presley]

Re: TVI Audio C210ii Line Array

The TVI's survived a huge rainstorm that came through this weekend at an outdoor festival we did. The boxes (powered) were soaked, but after the rain subsided they kept on truckin' all night long. They spent the day today out in the sun and all tested fine.

Before anybody says anything: (1)the barricade was there to keep people from running over my snake as that picture was taken early in the day (2) the little stage in front of the stage was for a local band to play before the headliners and I had no say so in its placement, they brought their own pa which was Crate and Behringer (3) Yes, more than 5 channels were being used on the console...drums were shared and that band's guitars, bass, vocals, etc... were right of the center section.

Brandon, what is going on with the klark eq... which graph is your house graph?

 

[Donnie Evans]

Re: TVI Audio C210ii Line Array

Brandon, what is going on with the klark eq... which graph is your house graph?

I was about to ask the same question. Wow. Look at channel one on the graph under it. I hope you aren't using EQs as a crossover?

 

[Evan Kirkendall]

Re: TVI Audio C210ii Line Array

I was about to ask the same question. Wow. Look at channel one on the graph under it. I hope you aren't using EQs as a crossover?

Looks like the Klark is L/R, and channel one of the dbx is for aux subs. Can't imagine what the phase response looks like down low... Or if there's any actual low mid in the rig....




Evan

 

[Brandon Blakeney]

Re: TVI Audio C210ii Line Array

Yes, Klark was L/R and DBX was Aux Subs/Fill (no fill on this show). I used my Phonic RTA to attempt to get a flat response out of the L.A., I think I pulled too much out of the low end on the L/R now that I look at it closer in the pic. Like I said with the rain and everything there was a good bit of chaos with this show. I thought it sounded great and so did the bands and their management. I'm still getting used to having compression drivers again instead of ribbons.

 

[Shane Presley]

Re: TVI Audio C210ii Line Array

Yes, Klark was L/R and DBX was Aux Subs/Fill (no fill on this show). I used my Phonic RTA to attempt to get a flat response out of the L.A., I think I pulled too much out of the low end on the L/R now that I look at it closer in the pic. Like I said with the rain and everything there was a good bit of chaos with this show. I thought it sounded great and so did the bands and their management. I'm still getting used to having compression drivers again instead of ribbons.

Two things...
1 - I would have some sort of processor instead of using your Eq's as crossovers even though your boxes are processed....
2 - When you're done lugging that H3K, you should sell it to me ;p

 

[Brandon Blakeney]

Re: TVI Audio C210ii Line Array

Two things...
1 - I would have some sort of processor instead of using your Eq's as crossovers even though your boxes are processed....
2 - When you're done lugging that H3K, you should sell it to me ;p

I do have crossovers there is just no point in having 30hz in the house EQ when they only go down to 70ish, the subs also have crossovers and same story on that eq.

And the H3K is definitely not for sale, it is by far the finest console I have ever had the pleasure to use

 

[Spenser Hamilton]

I do have crossovers there is just no point in having 30hz in the house EQ when they only go down to 70ish, the subs also have crossovers and same story on that eq.

And the H3K is definitely not for sale, it is by far the finest console I have ever had the pleasure to use

I always thought it was a good rule of thumb to leave EQ sliders, including those outside of the intended pass band, should typically be left at the '0' mark.

 

[Dick Rees]

Re: TVI Audio C210ii Line Array

I always thought it was a good rule of thumb to leave EQ sliders, including those outside of the intended pass band, should typically be left at the '0' mark.

That is my understanding as well.

If you've filtered it out anyway in the DSP, it shouldn't matter to leave it in on the mains GEQ. Bottoming them out may, if I understand correctly, skew up the phase down there and do you no good at the lowest frequency you're sending to the mains.

I've come to the opinion that the house GEQ is for tonal adjustments, not hacking around trying to smooth out the system response. That rig (or any rig) needs to be SMAARTed and processed through a system DSP. TVI doesn't seem big on assisting with the deployment and tuning end of the job. It may well be said that "you pay for what you get" in this case.

 

[Donnie Evans]

I do have crossovers there is just no point in having 30hz in the house EQ when they only go down to 70ish, the subs also have crossovers and same story on that eq.

That's what the your parametric shelf/cut filters on a DSP or a pass/cut on a crossover are for. Taking 30Hz out of a 1/3 graphic does alot more than removing 30Hz.


Sent from my DROID RAZR 2

 

[Tim McCulloch]

Re: TVI Audio C210ii Line Array

I do have crossovers there is just no point in having 30hz in the house EQ when they only go down to 70ish, the subs also have crossovers and same story on that eq.

< sigh >

 

[David Sturzenbecher]

Re: TVI Audio C210ii Line Array

I completely agree with keeping EQ's flat in this situation. But the KT EQ's do behave quite nicely when the "death to 80 and below" is applied. There is very minimal frequency response ripple between the EQ bands.

 

[Evan Kirkendall]

Re: TVI Audio C210ii Line Array

I do have crossovers there is just no point in having 30hz in the house EQ when they only go down to 70ish, the subs also have crossovers and same story on that eq.

And the H3K is definitely not for sale, it is by far the finest console I have ever had the pleasure to use

Brandon,
When you do the "death to X" on the graph, you're creating more issues than you're solving. Pulling all of those faders down is in term creating a steeper x-over slope, and in term ruining any alignments you *may* have in place. It's also adding a lot of phase shift down there, which again, is also bad. Your 70hz 24/dB Oct x-over is more like a 120hz 36/dB oct x-over!




Evan

 

[Mike Brown]

Re: TVI Audio C210ii Line Array

I completely agree with keeping EQ's flat in this situation. But the KT EQ's do behave quite nicely when the "death to 80 and below" is applied. There is very minimal frequency response ripple between the EQ bands.

It is my understanding that DN360's use proportional Qs and thus the frequency response rippling would be more prevalent vs other graphic EQs.

 

[Brandon Blakeney]

Re: TVI Audio C210ii Line Array

I admit I was unaware that the frequencies on an equalizer affected each other.......I've seen several sound guys just pull out the frequencies that aren't needed.....I'll try it flat next time :/

 

[Max Warasila]

Re: TVI Audio C210ii Line Array

*throws hands up* screw it- we'll just disobey the laws of physics. That might work.

 

[Nick Simon]

Re: TVI Audio C210ii Line Array

patience, Grasshoppa!

 

[Spenser Hamilton]

Re: TVI Audio C210ii Line Array

I admit I was unaware that the frequencies on an equalizer affected each other.......I've seen several sound guys just pull out the frequencies that aren't needed.....I'll try it flat next time :/

I remember when I was still working at my house gig we had a few BEs come through and dump the EQ below a certain point, I started doing the same until another BE walked up to the rack and asked me "what the fuck" I was trying to accomplish "with that bullshit".

That guy came through the club a few times, and I learned a lot from him, but he did not hesitate to say what was on his mind.