Video input formats to include

Hello - I posted this in the lab earlier today, but haven't churned up any responses yet. Here's another go:



I'm designing an AV system for a community center. The video needs are just simple playback. I plan to use the component outputs on a blu-ray player, and include a VGA jack for connecting computers. Those 2 inputs will get switched and routed to 3 different projectors. I want the system to be user friendly, simple, and idiot proof. Are there any other jacks I should be including to accommodate 90% of the needs the room may see? DVI, HDMI, or Composite?



Thanks in advance for your help,

Grant
 
Re: Video input formats to include

It depends on projected uses, but in locations where anybody might want to project stuff I'd include composite (yuk) in case someone shows up with older stuff like a VCR.

 
Re: Video input formats to include

It sounds like a media center with a simple fanout.

I'd include backward compatibility.

There are a wide variety of media centers and video switching matrix units ( from home to pro ).

MCM may have a small unit that would fit your needs.

Also:

B&H Photo-Video-Audio & Markertek have about anything in that realm.

 
Re: Video input formats to include

Anyone who shows up with dvi gear is likely going to be able to convert to whatever you have. I would probably try to get hdmi in there, including it's audio stream. Someone might wNt to hook up a cable box or video game system, and hdmi is a mainstream format that people have started to understand and become familiar with. And thus, to expect.
 
Re: Video input formats to include

I'm designing an AV system for a community center. The video needs are just simple playback. I plan to use the component outputs on a blu-ray player, and include a VGA jack for connecting computers. Those 2 inputs will get switched and routed to 3 different projectors. I want the system to be user friendly, simple, and idiot proof. Are there any other jacks I should be including to accommodate 90% of the needs the room may see? DVI, HDMI, or Composite?

It depends on the intended use and sources but starting at the beginning of the year the analog outputs on new, and some older if the manufacturer so chose, Blu-Ray players are limited to 480i/576i SD resolution when playing AACS protected media (primarily commercial Blu-Ray releases) and that in three years all new units will have no analog outputs with such media. I've also been finding more and more laptops with no VGA output, using DVI, HDMI or DisplayPort instead and thus requiring an adapter cable or device to obtain a VGA output.



I personally have been designing systems for the past couple of years that try to accommodate some combination of both more current connectivity such as HDMI or DVI as well as common legacy formats such as VGA, component video and composite video or S-video. My thought is that my clients often expect the systems to be able to support laptops and video sources that are several years old as well supporting newer computer and video sources for some years to come. That can be difficult as we're at a bit of a crossroads where we still have to deal with many legacy formats such as VGA, composite video, analog RF, S-video and component video while also having to plan for a future of HDMI, DVI, DisplayPort and whatever is the next thing out of the consumer market. Deciding whether to try to accommodate a variety of these ties directly to the cost and complexity of the system.



As an example, I recently designed a system for a community center that included some classrooms and a multi-function space. In those rooms every wall plate has HDMI, VGA, component video and composite video inputs, all with matching audio. The same for the last corporate multi-purpose room system that I designed. It should be noted that the types of products I typically use for such systems are not generally available through sources like MCM, Markertek or B&H and instead are available through qualified professional contractors.



I was also not clear if the intent was to run whatever source is selected to all three projectors or if the goal was to be able to select the source for each projector individually. That could affect any recommendations.
 
Re: Video input formats to include

Thanks Everyone.

Brad -

I've been looking at the Blu-Ray players, and so far haven't seen a spec for analog output resolution on any of them. Where do you find these specs?



Based on what I'm hearing here, I'm leaning towards including VGA, HDMI, and Composite. A source elsewhere tells me HDMI is on the way out (2 years or so), and DVI is more reliable. Can anyone confirm this?



This is actually a 2 room space. The larger room will get 2 projectors and receive it's signal from a switcher. The smaller room will have one projector, and receive it's signal from a switcher that includes it's own sources, as well as the larger room's signal. So in actuality there will be 2 sets of Blu-Ray, wall jacks, switchers, etc.



Thanks,

Grant
 
Re: Video input formats to include

I've been looking at the Blu-Ray players, and so far haven't seen a spec for analog output resolution on any of them. Where do you find these specs?

Some devices will tell you what output formats they support. What the actual resolution is for a disc may be content dependent, unless the device includes upscaling to a defined resolution.



Based on what I'm hearing here, I'm leaning towards including VGA, HDMI, and Composite. A source elsewhere tells me HDMI is on the way out (2 years or so), and DVI is more reliable. Can anyone confirm this?

I think this may depend upon what market you look at. I wouldn't be surprised to see DVI rule in the computer market, although the small size of the HDMI and mini-HDMI ports is an advantage with laptops. However, in consumer products I think HDMI rules right now and will until the next new thing comes out. For example, I see many new smartphones with some form of HDMI output but few or none with DVI outputs. And look at all the Blu-Ray players, AV receivers, etc. that support HDMI connectivity but that have no DVI connectivity.



Speaking of consumer devices, that is something to think about in terms of cable boxes, Blu-Ray players, etc. as the warranties for some consumer devices specifically exclude professional, commercial or industrial use and are pretty much restricted to residential or personal use. If you have to support the system it may be worth looking at the related warranties to verify if such limitations may be applicable.
 
Re: Video input formats to include

Is there anyone else here that would agree with me that HDMI and it's associated HDCP crap should die and never come back again? The next client that asks me to put an HDMI port on their wallplate will get smacked on the side of their head with a salmon!
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Re: Video input formats to include

Hey Arthur -

I'm in total agreement that HDCP is crap. I'm trying really hard to wrap my head around all that goes into this design. Is it not worth the effort to get HD to the projector? I was just in the process of reconfiguring this whole setup for HDMI wall inputs and HDMI or DVI over cat5 output. Shall I ready the Salmon, or go back to an all Analog i/o plan? Analog would be an easy decision if I could filter the Blu-Ray options for 1080p output on Component, and if HDMI input didn't look like the way forward for consumers.



Thanks,

Grant



PS - what do folks think of this guy: http://www.intelix.com/products/digiscal11x2.htm
 
Re: Video input formats to include

For now I'm sticking with VGA or DVI. Wasted waaaaay too much time trying to get HDMI to work correctly with a recent install.
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HDMI belongs in a home theatre, not in professional applications.
 
Re: Video input formats to include

HDMI belongs in a home theatre, not in professional applications.

Nobody to blame for that but ourselves. When the HDMI and HDCP were being developed the pro AV industry apparently decided not to get involved and now we're stuck with what the consumer side developed. I think the pro AV industry got too used to 'high end' consumer products emulating pro products and didn't expect the consumer side to just go and do something completely different without consulting us. It seems we were wrong and now we've gone from pro products somewhat driving the consumer products to the other way around.
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Another factor is that HDMI and DisplayPort are smaller and less expensive to incorporate into laptops. When you're dealing with commodity products it gets difficult to justify the extra space and cost to also incorporate VGA.



As far as HDMI versus DVI, HDMI carries audio and CEC (Consumer Electronics Control) information as well as video. And HDMI Ver 1.4 adds an Ethernet connection making it a true one cable solution (digital video, digital audio, control and network) for some consumer electronics.



HDMI and DVI-D/I both include HDCP functionality. Both HDCP and the analog sunset exist to deal with preventing high resolution copying, so we can probably blame the content providers more than the electronics industry for those issues.
 
Re: Video input formats to include

I agree with everything you say Brad, however I really wonder if the content providers and electronics industry would have listened to us if we had been there to provide input? Or maybe some of the key players in the pro market were making themselves available, but were categorically ignored. Remember that we pros are small fish in a very big ocean, a mere blip on the radar with these folk, and nothing more!
 
Re: Video input formats to include

I don't know if it would have mattered or not, but my understanding is that we greatly just didn't participate. In fact it is apparently only recently that more than one or two of the pro AV manufacturers started to attend some of the related events and forums such as Plugfests.
 
Re: Video input formats to include

I did not know that they had added Ethernet to the HDMI standard, but that's pretty cool.



I will repeat that, whatever path you choose, be sure to incorporate the audio pathway. I have seen installations with HDMI or DVI video switching with no ability to take the embedded audio to the sound system. Fail.
 
Re: Video input formats to include

I'm personally hoping that HDBaseT takes off so that a gigabit network is all thats needed to get video to all of the displays. There's still DRM, but it looks to be much easier to get video from the source to multiple displays without the hassles that HDMI systems usually generate. Though, only time will tell if it really is as easy to use as they are claiming it to be.



Though the analog sunset goes back to the DMCA and it's revocable licences. They decided to change the licence, and, thanks to congress, we're left with almost no recourse.
 
Re: Video input formats to include

Thanks Everyone.

Brad -

I've been looking at the Blu-Ray players, and so far haven't seen a spec for analog output resolution on any of them. Where do you find these specs?



Try Oppo Digital - they seem to list the specs you are looking for. We have the BDP83 at the theater and are quite pleased (I've yet to see a BluRay disc on it).

 
Re: Video input formats to include

For video, I'm a fan of the Kramer scaler/switchers. They are a really great bang for the buck. I just recently installed some vp-728's. The outputs include hdmi and vga. I ran the vga out to a pair of stacked nec projectors, and the hdmi out to the dvi input on a tilematrix.



4 combo inputs that will auto recognize as:

composite

s-vid

component (interlaced or progressive)

There are also

2 vga inputs

2 hdmi inputs

1 usb input.



You can have remote options for changing source selections, also a plus in a multi-screen environment.



The Kramer takes up through 1920x1080 (your blueray resolution) and scales it up or down to a set resolution that you should set to the native resolution of your projectors.



I've been very happy with them, and I think it would give you any combination of inputs that you could realistically need.