Which analogue crossover is the best?

R

Richard Stringer

Sophomore
Jan 13, 2011
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Boston, Lincolnshire, UK
I'm wanting to know which analogue crossover is the best between the Dbx 223XL, Peavey PV23XO, EV AC-One and BSS FDS360 (with 80hz plug in card). I really need a crossover and can't afford a loudspeaker management systm for a good few months. I'd hire one out but i'd have to travel 80 miles there and back each time and there's no garantee one's gonna be available for hire on the dat of my events because the only hire company within 120 miles is constantly hiring out their loudspeaker management systems are forever being hired out.
Anyway, I apreciate your help, thanks guys.
 
Re: Which analogue crossover is the best?

Richard Stringer said:
I'm wanting to know which analogue crossover is the best between the Dbx 223XL, Peavey PV23XO, EV AC-One and BSS FDS360 (with 80hz plug in card). I really need a crossover and can't afford a loudspeaker management systm for a good few months. I'd hire one out but i'd have to travel 80 miles there and back each time and there's no garantee one's gonna be available for hire on the dat of my events because the only hire company within 120 miles is constantly hiring out their loudspeaker management systems are forever being hired out.
Anyway, I apreciate your help, thanks guys.
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It depends on what you call "best". flexibility-ease of use-sonic quality-reliability-resale value. To different people-each one of those could be considered better than another.

I really olike the BSS360-when I upgraded to them many years ago it was a noticable sonic improvement.

HOWEVER-changing freq is not for the average user-the other units are much easier to change freq. The standard outputs are unbalanced-which may or may not be a problem for your setup.

Sometimes having something more flexible is "better" for a particular situation.
 
Re: Which analogue crossover is the best?

Yeah sorry, I was in a rush typing that, I had to pop out earlier and wasn't thinking properly. I mean best as in sound quality, and if one is the best sound quality, would you say there's a noticebale difference in sound quality between them.
I just read the FDS360 manual, and yeah it does have unbalanced outputs, damn. Would you say there's a noticeable difference in sound quality between the BSS FDS360 and the EV AC-One?
 
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Re: Which analogue crossover is the best?

The sound quality of loudspeaker crossover is conflicted by accuracy and appropriateness of the actual filter curves. A perfect audio path that doesn't properly divide the audio signals for your actual speaker, will not sound as good as a lesser audio path, that can be adjusted to better match what your speaker needs to get.

I would first research what your speakers need to get (filter order and alignments). Then see what models deliver what you need. Only when you have multiple candidates that meet that criteria is path quality even worth considering, and IMO most modern electronics paths will be better than amplification and transducer linearity.

As Ivan mentioned there are other than sound quality issues to consider. If you are on a budget there should be a lot of used analog crossovers out there as they slowly sink into technological obsolescence and prices should keep dropping.

JR
 
Re: Which analogue crossover is the best?

If you really want to get "gnarly" with an analog crossover, get yourself a KT DN800. These use removable filter boards where you have to solder in the caps and resistors for the x-over points you want. But it's likely the best analog unit ever made. The limiters are really good too. I still have one as a backup for my rig in case the DSP dies. I realize this is probably more of a project than what you bargained for, but you can get these cheap now and setting up the filters isn't that difficult ;-)

Greg
 
Re: Which analogue crossover is the best?

Well i'm using two Peavey UL215H mid/highs and two JBL SRX728S subs, i'm using a Yamaha P7000S amplifier to power the Peavey cabs and two bridged JBL MPA750 amplifiers to power my JBL subs. How would I find out what filter order and alignments my Peavey speakers need? I've asked Peavey a few technical questions before ands they've sounded like they either don't know or can't bothered to look up the information i've needed. I know which filter types the SRX subs need because i've got a tunings pdf.
 
Re: Which analogue crossover is the best?

Richard Stringer said:
Well i'm using two Peavey UL215H mid/highs and two JBL SRX728S subs, i'm using a Yamaha P7000S amplifier to power the Peavey cabs and two bridged JBL MPA750 amplifiers to power my JBL subs. How would I find out what filter order and alignments my Peavey speakers need? I've asked Peavey a few technical questions before ands they've sounded like they either don't know or can't bothered to look up the information i've needed. I know which filter types the SRX subs need because i've got a tunings pdf.
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The Peavey transducer engineering group is not likely to offer advice for crossing over to other companies subs, but surely Peavey has advice wrt to a similar Peavey sub, likewise look at the crossover recommendations from JBL for the subs. That transition is not as critical as the upper frequency crossover filters, but hopefully you can find some common ground between the Peavey and JBL advice.

If the service guys are not helpful maybe you're asking the wrong question. One of the more annoying questions is hey, I bought all this other stuff from your direct competitors, but how do I get them all to work together ? I don't expect Yamaha or JBL service to be any more responsive to asking them about how to crossover to the Peavey tops.

On a slightly related topic, I recall once asking the transducers engineers to give me a set of crossover presets for an inexpensive adjustable crossover plugin in a Peavey power amp, and they declined because they didn't trust the accuracy/repeatability of the crude frequency adjustment in the plug-in. I would not expect this to be as much of a limitation with more precise (at least in theory) digital crossovers. So at least they should have optimal advice. Getting an analog crossover to actually deliver that precisely is another story.

In my experience the Peavey service dept was pretty good, but keep in mind their job is dealing with faulty product issues, not mixed brand system integration. I don't even recognize the UL215H model but I've been outside the walls for several years now.

JR
 
Re: Which analogue crossover is the best?

John Roberts said:
The sound quality of loudspeaker crossover is conflicted by accuracy and appropriateness of the actual filter curves. A perfect audio path that doesn't properly divide the audio signals for your actual speaker, will not sound as good as a lesser audio path, that can be adjusted to better match what your speaker needs to get.

I would first research what your speakers need to get (filter order and alignments). Then see what models deliver what you need. Only when you have multiple candidates that meet that criteria is path quality even worth considering, and IMO most modern electronics paths will be better than amplification and transducer linearity.

As Ivan mentioned there are other than sound quality issues to consider. If you are on a budget there should be a lot of used analog crossovers out there as they slowly sink into technological obsolescence and prices should keep dropping.

JR
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And one thing that all analog crossovers "assume" is that the loudspeakers are "perfect"-ie flat response through out crossover.

This is usually not the case with normal loudspeakers. Hence the reason for factory settings on modern loudspeakers that have crossover settings nothing at all like those on the old analog units.
 
Re: Which analogue crossover is the best?

Bennett Prescott said:
I would say almost never the case! The exception is probably the upper bandpass on subwoofers, and then only on axis.
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There are some high end (read expensive-lower power-low sensitivity etc) not the type we normally use, that have a very flat response through their passband.

That is why I said "usually". There are almost always exceptions.
 
Re: Which analogue crossover is the best?

Since you are looking at an AC-one I guess this is just a 2 way crossover. As much as I hate them, I wonder why not just find a driverack pa+. There is at least one recently listed used on on PSW for $250. Surely you can find a similar price local to you.
 
Re: Which analogue crossover is the best?

I have had good experience with the Ashly XR1001, analog, simple, reliable, 1 RU, not expensive. Fixed 24 dB/octave slope but the "response" control allows for choosing BW, LR, or other shapes down 0 throught 12 dB at the XO frequency.
Any particular reason not to consider the Ashly?
 
Re: Which analogue crossover is the best?

Jay Barracato said:
Since you are looking at an AC-one I guess this is just a 2 way crossover. As much as I hate them, I wonder why not just find a driverack pa+. There is at least one recently listed used on on PSW for $250. Surely you can find a similar price local to you.
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Indeed, even a cheap and flawed DSP has much more power than the best general purpose analog unit. Fixed slope matched frequency XO is enough reason alone to upgrade.

However, that brings up the point... is Richard prepared to design a crossover with equalization for his loudspeakers? There is little point in getting a DSP capable of really tuning up a loudspeaker if the settings must be arrived at by estimation.
 
Re: Which analogue crossover is the best?

Well there's very few Driverack PA+ here available used, and they're £400 new, i'm from boston in the uk, not usa so if I went for the one used on here i'd have to pay import tax, vat and customs and exise tax, not to mention shipping costs and before you know it I could of bought a new one. I don't know anything about how to design a crossover, especially one with equaliszation for my speaker cabs. The EV AC One are available here used for £100, the Dbx 223XL use sells for about £80.
 
Re: Which analogue crossover is the best?

Bennett Prescott said:
Indeed, even a cheap and flawed DSP has much more power than the best general purpose analog unit. Fixed slope matched frequency XO is enough reason alone to upgrade.

However, that brings up the point... is Richard prepared to design a crossover with equalization for his loudspeakers? There is little point in getting a DSP capable of really tuning up a loudspeaker if the settings must be arrived at by estimation.
Click to expand...

While I appreciate the new measurement forum in the other house, maybe what we really need is a caution for all threads:

"Caution: Any discussion topic may diverge into a discussion of measurement"
 
Re: Which analogue crossover is the best?

not to change the topic too much but I've had great luck scoring last generation DSP units in the used market that sound and work fantastic. XTA DP200's and BSS Soundweb 9088ii's for a few hundred each. Haven't had a bad experience yet. Also the BSS mini drive.
 
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Re: Which analogue crossover is the best?

Sound great. Though I've not A/B'ed them to anything else direclty. Lots of PEQ and filters. Limiters sound good too. Simple 2 in 2 out. Old enough to not have USB control, just RS185/485 if they have the proper card. I wouldn't buy one w/o the RS485 option card. Software still runs fine on all the windows OS's I've used up through 7. You can do almost anything real time w/o audio artifacts or dropouts except configuration changes and reducing delay settings (obviously) Metering via software is bad. Three bar LED kinda UI. Some older units have worn out/dirty encoder dials that make it hard to program via front panel controls but It's way faster with software anyway.
 
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