Which preanmps are best ?

Re: Which preanmps are best ?

LOL to both max and eric. I try to learn as much as i can at times. so far with this rapper , i have done his show from time to time through the church people that rents his services, and he is a nice guy and willing to work with anyone within reason. but i just couldn't figure out why that all that this time , everytime he performs i have this problem. and I have come to find out that it's just rap/ Hip Hop. any other event goes off without a hitch. and of course what everyone here has said about the wireless mic. I AM considering getting one or more of them. But i havent had much dealings with looking at the specs on one, so how do you tell about the SPL's on the spec's? and also I am looking at the Electro Voice R300 handheld. I am just wondering if that would help me in my troubles at all?
 
Re: Which preanmps are best ?

One rule of thumb to remember with wireless is that it usually takes 2000+ dollars to get even close to the same quality as a wired mic. I personally looked at that one before, and while it does work for speaking and such, be prepared to send it back in the event that you get a defective unit. The non defective ones are fine, though still nowhere near as good as a higher system, but there have been occasions where the units don't work when taken out of the box. Just a thought there.

I seriously suggest that you ask him to change the way he holds the mic. Work with him on creating a sound that he likes, as holding the mic the way previously described creates a sound that can be safely recreated through the use of compressors and effects at the mix position.

In all honestly though, give him a wired mic and see how he likes it. Who knows? Throw an SM58 up there and try it out (for all you gamers out there: TRIIIIAAAALLL!!!!), as well as perhaps a few other ones you may or may not find laying around. Save the money from buying less than great wireless if you can. Tends to save you from many headaches.
 
Re: Which preanmps are best ?

I once asked a very famous platinum record rap artist why they all cupped the mic. He said, "We know it sounds bad and causes problems but it is about power." I asked him to explain and said,"The look."
 
Re: Which preanmps are best ?

Max Warasila said:
One rule of thumb to remember with wireless is that it usually takes 2000+ dollars to get even close to the same quality as a wired mic. I personally looked at that one before, and while it does work for speaking and such, be prepared to send it back in the event that you get a defective unit. The non defective ones are fine, though still nowhere near as good as a higher system, but there have been occasions where the units don't work when taken out of the box. Just a thought there.

I seriously suggest that you ask him to change the way he holds the mic. Work with him on creating a sound that he likes, as holding the mic the way previously described creates a sound that can be safely recreated through the use of compressors and effects at the mix position.

In all honestly though, give him a wired mic and see how he likes it. Who knows? Throw an SM58 up there and try it out (for all you gamers out there: TRIIIIAAAALLL!!!!), as well as perhaps a few other ones you may or may not find laying around. Save the money from buying less than great wireless if you can. Tends to save you from many headaches.
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I have heard that about those mics , but i have also heard good things about the Non defective ones as well, My budget doesn't see as far as going $599 or thousands of dollars for a mic, I would be willing to pay at the most $299. I feel that it would be better than what i have now. lol As far as the rapper goes , he lives in a different stat than i live in and he isn't down here that much so that would be hard.
 
Re: Which preanmps are best ?

Eric Cagle said:
I once asked a very famous platinum record rap artist why they all cupped the mic. He said, "We know it sounds bad and causes problems but it is about power." I asked him to explain and said,"The look."
Click to expand...

you would figure as much bling bling that they wear , that would be power enough. LOL
 
Re: Which preanmps are best ?

Jimmy,

I'm inclined to agree with some of the others: a wired, dynamic microphone (like an SM58 or Sennheiser e835) is really going to be the best option.

You have fewer places to worry about setting the gain correctly, a wired mic is inherently more reliable than a wireless microphone, AND they're pretty much indestructible.

If you're worried about the mic cable falling out for some reason, use a few wraps of gaffer's tape to fasten the cable around the mic handle...watch other hip-hop videos, you'll see what I mean. ;-)

Then, after all that, do some searching on these forums for "gain structure". It would be a good idea to bone up on that before your next event, no matter what it is.
 
Re: Which preanmps are best ?

Max Warasila said:
One rule of thumb to remember with wireless is that it usually takes 2000+ dollars to get even close to the same quality as a wired mic.
Click to expand...

Come on, I can't be the only one who thinks that is hogwash! I am confident that you or anyone else would not be able to accurately hear the difference between my humble Line 6 wireless system and a wired mic in a live environment.
 
Re: Which preanmps are best ?

Chuck Simon said:
Come on, I can't be the only one who thinks that is hogwash! I am confident that you or anyone else would not be able to accurately hear the difference between my humble Line 6 wireless system and a wired mic in a live environment.
Click to expand...

While most people will not be able to tell instantly, just try A/B ing your inputs of a wired vs. wireless version of the same mic. I guarantee you that if your system cost you less than 1k, you'll be able to at least hear a slight difference. And it does make a difference in a live environment- why do you think we put so much effort into finding the right microphones for each application? Wired microphones still need improvement to match the wired performance.

That said, I thank the Lord that we no longer have to rely on things such as the LX-88II. Any or all of my EQ is used on those things (when I use them at a local school) just to fix the issues created by the wireless transmission.
 
Re: Which preanmps are best ?

Jimmy Hardin said:
LOL to both max and eric. I try to learn as much as i can at times. so far with this rapper , i have done his show from time to time through the church people that rents his services, and he is a nice guy and willing to work with anyone within reason. but i just couldn't figure out why that all that this time , everytime he performs i have this problem. and I have come to find out that it's just rap/ Hip Hop. any other event goes off without a hitch. and of course what everyone here has said about the wireless mic. I AM considering getting one or more of them. But i havent had much dealings with looking at the specs on one, so how do you tell about the SPL's on the spec's? and also I am looking at the Electro Voice R300 handheld. I am just wondering if that would help me in my troubles at all?
Click to expand...

Jimmy many of us have been there on this. I know I have. I have settled upon the Shure ULX wirelss at least for now. I have had problems with them overload on loud gospel vocals nad have tried a number of things including contacting Shure.

The mic gain setting on the transmitter need to be adjusted just right. too low and the mic gets noisey. Too high and its easily overloads on the loud parts.
I have also tried changing the standard 58 capsule with a Heil PR-35. while this is a fantastic combination to talented vocalists, it is really bad... i mean really bad for spoken word P popping preachers. (of course they refuse the windscreen.)

MY last gospel show I only reluctantly used the Heil after the client DEMANDED more bass response that I was unable to acheive with the 58's. The singing performance was stellar. The spoken was horrid.

So ther you have the dilemma: the client expects and demands perfect quality sound while screaming (or singing loudly with poor mic technique) into a hand held wireless mic all at rock bottom prices.

Im thinking of adding more windscreen INSIDE the capsules... but space is kind of tight in there.

Just don't feel bad about having problems with rappers... its kind like the equivalent of putting the wireless hand held in a kick drum... come to think of it that may be a valid test to determine the ability of one to do rap.
 
Re: Which preanmps are best ?

Tim Perry said:
Jimmy many of us have been there on this. I know I have. I have settled upon the Shure ULX wirelss at least for now. I have had problems with them overload on loud gospel vocals nad have tried a number of things including contacting Shure.

The mic gain setting on the transmitter need to be adjusted just right. too low and the mic gets noisey. Too high and its easily overloads on the loud parts.
I have also tried changing the standard 58 capsule with a Heil PR-35. while this is a fantastic combination to talented vocalists, it is really bad... i mean really bad for spoken word P popping preachers. (of course they refuse the windscreen.)

MY last gospel show I only reluctantly used the Heil after the client DEMANDED more bass response that I was unable to acheive with the 58's. The singing performance was stellar. The spoken was horrid.

So ther you have the dilemma: the client expects and demands perfect quality sound while screaming (or singing loudly with poor mic technique) into a hand held wireless mic all at rock bottom prices.

Im thinking of adding more windscreen INSIDE the capsules... but space is kind of tight in there.

Just don't feel bad about having problems with rappers... its kind like the equivalent of putting the wireless hand held in a kick drum... come to think of it that may be a valid test to determine the ability of one to do rap.
Click to expand...

Thanks Tim for the comforting. I am going to thank each one of you later on. but for now i have to ask , Where on the mic specs do it say anything about the SPL'S and what do i look for in determining if it's a good mic or handles good Spl's?. I have a funny story to tell, When i was just getting into doing sound, I went to a local store and was talking to the owner which is a good friend of mine about my wiring and he said to run ( I think it was my subs or something) your subs you need a higher gauge wire , well little did i know that on the gauges the lower the gauge the thicker the wire. so i told him , well just give me a 22 gauge wire then.:rolleyes: and as i look back on it it was goofy but at the time i didnt know. so thats why i asked about where to look for these things. oh and by the way i know better about the wires now. LOL
 
Re: Which preanmps are best ?

The best way to determine how good something sounds is to try using it.

Besides that, you can always search around for published specs from the manufacturer. What you are looking for is usually along the lines of "Maximum SPL". However, for wireless you will find it much more useful to find out how much dynamic range the microphone has at lower gains, as you will have to turn the gain down without the mic becoming noisy.
 
Re: Which preanmps are best ?

Jimmy....

You need to start reading the manuals for your equipment. Many of your questions will be answered there. If you've lost them or didn't get them with the gear, they should be available on-line in PDF form.

Your wireless microphones will have a "sensitivity" setting on the transmitter. If you dial it down to the least sensitive, you'll go a long way to alleviating the problem at the source......short of capo-ing the vocalist with a large C-clamp on his chest.
 
Re: Which preanmps are best ?

Dick Rees said:
Jimmy....

You need to start reading the manuals for your equipment. Many of your questions will be answered there. If you've lost them or didn't get them with the gear, they should be available on-line in PDF form.

Your wireless microphones will have a "sensitivity" setting on the transmitter. If you dial it down to the least sensitive, you'll go a long way to alleviating the problem at the source......short of capo-ing the vocalist with a large C-clamp on his chest.
Click to expand...

I like that capo idea. Ever heard of the "Drummer Whipping Technique" where you use a whip to keep the drummer in time?
 
Re: Which preanmps are best ?

Dick Rees said:
Jimmy....

You need to start reading the manuals for your equipment. Many of your questions will be answered there. If you've lost them or didn't get them with the gear, they should be available on-line in PDF form.

Your wireless microphones will have a "sensitivity" setting on the transmitter. If you dial it down to the least sensitive, you'll go a long way to alleviating the problem at the source......short of capo-ing the vocalist with a large C-clamp on his chest.
Click to expand...

ok thanks dick , i am very familiar with what you are talking about on the transmitter. I dont really like how mine does , but i like the ones with a -10db or so on them. when i get another wireless i am going to make sure thy have that on them. I also like the capoing statement as well. never thought of that. LOL
 
Re: Which preanmps are best ?

Ok, thanks guys for all of your input on this matter , i am going to review all that has been written in this post, and also thanks for not bashing my gear, you dont know how much it means to me to just get down to the problem with a great conversation and great answers. now i am not saying i have the best stuff out there , but I have been on forums where they just bash your gear without even talking about the problem at hand , and you guys haven't done any of that,, So Thanks again . and hopefully we will have many more great chats like this one in the future. thanks for all your help and comments. :):D~:-D~:grin::thumbup:
 
Re: Which preanmps are best ?

ok guys. just one more thing to ask and then i will get out of your hair. the Electro voice r300 mic says the dynamic range is greater than 95db, the shure Pg series wireless says 109db, and the audio techinca system 10 says 109db a weighted typical. which of the three would be the better mic for the rap hiphop music?
 
Re: Which preanmps are best ?

Jimmy Hardin said:
ok guys. just one more thing to ask and then i will get out of your hair. the Electro voice r300 mic says the dynamic range is greater than 95db, the shure Pg series wireless says 109db, and the audio techinca system 10 says 109db a weighted typical. which of the three would be the better mic for the rap hiphop music?
Click to expand...

Sadly, probably none of these:

Personal experience with the PGX-D says it will distort on screamers. Experience with the PGX systems says they are not even suitable for grade school plays.

Experience with any and all cheep wireless mic systems says they will drive you nuts.

Let me direct your attention to the Sennheiser EW-100. Shopping for a used set on e-bay may come up with something in your price range.
 
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