Wiring an amp rack
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Re: Wiring an amp rack
Theoretically for the short patch run, 16 AWG shouldn't have significant impact on power loss and damping. However, I personally feel better using thicker wire even for the short sections like the amp patch panel and the speaker box terminals to the drivers. But that's just me. I believe I'm using 12 AWG for both.
Greg
Theoretically for the short patch run, 16 AWG shouldn't have significant impact on power loss and damping. However, I personally feel better using thicker wire even for the short sections like the amp patch panel and the speaker box terminals to the drivers. But that's just me. I believe I'm using 12 AWG for both.
Greg
Re: Wiring an amp rack
The few feet of 16AWG wire between the amps and the patch panel will have little effect compared to what comes after it (I assume several dozen feet of cable).
http://www.soundfirst.com/LZ_DF_calculator.zip
The few feet of 16AWG wire between the amps and the patch panel will have little effect compared to what comes after it (I assume several dozen feet of cable).
http://www.soundfirst.com/LZ_DF_calculator.zip
Re: Wiring an amp rack
For an inner rack patch, the added resistance of the lighter gauge cable will not matter. Open up your speaker cabinets and check the wire there. You'll likely find 16 or 18 gauge wire inside.
For an inner rack patch, the added resistance of the lighter gauge cable will not matter. Open up your speaker cabinets and check the wire there. You'll likely find 16 or 18 gauge wire inside.
Re: Wiring an amp rack
I like to use at least 14 gauge in amps racks and speaker cabinets, it makes me sleep better at night. Having said that, a while back I was working on a EAW LA series double 18 cabinet and wire to the speakers was no more than 16 gauge at best and the jumpers from speakon to speakon were maybe 18 gauge at the most.
I like to use at least 14 gauge in amps racks and speaker cabinets, it makes me sleep better at night. Having said that, a while back I was working on a EAW LA series double 18 cabinet and wire to the speakers was no more than 16 gauge at best and the jumpers from speakon to speakon were maybe 18 gauge at the most.
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Re: Wiring an amp rack
It will be fine, but the stiffness of the wire can be a pain, so I prefer to use SJ. I use the same 12-4 I use for cables - why have two types of wire on hand? To make reconfiguring faster, for connections to the amps I use Deltron banana plugs (Mouser 174-5791 (black) and 174-5795 (red), as these are the best I've found.
It will be fine, but the stiffness of the wire can be a pain, so I prefer to use SJ. I use the same 12-4 I use for cables - why have two types of wire on hand? To make reconfiguring faster, for connections to the amps I use Deltron banana plugs (Mouser 174-5791 (black) and 174-5795 (red), as these are the best I've found.
Silas Pradetto
Graduate Student
Re: Wiring an amp rack
Hey Tim, I think everyone uses SJ for speaker cables. There is no logical reason or code why anyone would use SO for that application. Last amp racks I wired used portable 13/4 speaker cable in the rack, but I've also used 14/2 install speaker wire for things like that.
I don't use banana plugs anymore since even the 'professional' ones (I was using ProCo) seem to fall out once in a while, and I don't have time to troubleshoot things like that at a show. I want it to work every time without exception.
Each of my amp racks contains two IT5000HDs, and with this configuration I haven't ever found a need to reconfigure anything. I have two NL4s on the output panel wired straight-through to the NL4s on the amps themselves. This covers every biamped speaker I could ever use. For any non-biamped speaker, I have a little box that breaks out a single NL4 cable into two separate feeds, one per amp channel. Additionally, I have cable that would take two NL4s and make them into one NL8 if I ever needed such a configuration.
I'd much rather have a standard configuration at every show which I can rely on to always work than ten different configurations which I have to double and triple-check at a show before I can be certain things are going to do what I expect.
Hey Tim, I think everyone uses SJ for speaker cables. There is no logical reason or code why anyone would use SO for that application. Last amp racks I wired used portable 13/4 speaker cable in the rack, but I've also used 14/2 install speaker wire for things like that.
I don't use banana plugs anymore since even the 'professional' ones (I was using ProCo) seem to fall out once in a while, and I don't have time to troubleshoot things like that at a show. I want it to work every time without exception.
Each of my amp racks contains two IT5000HDs, and with this configuration I haven't ever found a need to reconfigure anything. I have two NL4s on the output panel wired straight-through to the NL4s on the amps themselves. This covers every biamped speaker I could ever use. For any non-biamped speaker, I have a little box that breaks out a single NL4 cable into two separate feeds, one per amp channel. Additionally, I have cable that would take two NL4s and make them into one NL8 if I ever needed such a configuration.
I'd much rather have a standard configuration at every show which I can rely on to always work than ten different configurations which I have to double and triple-check at a show before I can be certain things are going to do what I expect.
Re: Wiring an amp rack
I used 14/4 horizon wire in my soldered patch panels, with an NL4 connection to the amp. Meyer uses what looks like 16 in their boxes. I used 16 install wire for the sense cables to route from the amps back to the processors via banana plugs. One of the great features of many new amps on the market is that they have Neutrik NL connectors on the rear- those babies aren't coming loose. The runs are all 12/4...
I used 14/4 horizon wire in my soldered patch panels, with an NL4 connection to the amp. Meyer uses what looks like 16 in their boxes. I used 16 install wire for the sense cables to route from the amps back to the processors via banana plugs. One of the great features of many new amps on the market is that they have Neutrik NL connectors on the rear- those babies aren't coming loose. The runs are all 12/4...
Re: Wiring an amp rack
I have almost the same setup. My amp rack has 2 IT8000s and 2 XTI4000s. I have 4 NL4s on the output panel wired straight to the NL4s on the amps, but I also have 2 NL8s on the output panel wired off the NL4s on the panel. 1 NL8 for the ITs and 1 NL8 for the XTIs.
The input panel has 4 xlr male and 4 xlr female. Power comes from an rack pack.
I have almost the same setup. My amp rack has 2 IT8000s and 2 XTI4000s. I have 4 NL4s on the output panel wired straight to the NL4s on the amps, but I also have 2 NL8s on the output panel wired off the NL4s on the panel. 1 NL8 for the ITs and 1 NL8 for the XTIs.
The input panel has 4 xlr male and 4 xlr female. Power comes from an rack pack.
Re: Wiring an amp rack
One thing that I started doing (off topic from speaker gauge) was putting two conditioners in each rack. Most of the gigs fall in to that category of venues where sound reinforcement was never intended. So power is always and issue. The panel that holds the NL4 outs and the XLR inputs also holds 4 powercons (2 in/2out). It's wired so each conditioner has in an input for two circuits. Then, if I get somewhere and they only have one circuit available for FOH power, I have a cable that I built so I can loop the power of the bottom conditioner to the top one. It's basically a short powercon with a blue input and grey output on each end. It leaves me with one out on the second conditioner, plus I used basic furman 8x conditioners mounted in the rear of the rack so I have 2 courtesy edisons available.
It cost a little more to do all powercon connections, but it makes it real obvious to my guys which cables go the audio and which go the lighting... since lighting seems to be part of the deal these days.
One thing that I started doing (off topic from speaker gauge) was putting two conditioners in each rack. Most of the gigs fall in to that category of venues where sound reinforcement was never intended. So power is always and issue. The panel that holds the NL4 outs and the XLR inputs also holds 4 powercons (2 in/2out). It's wired so each conditioner has in an input for two circuits. Then, if I get somewhere and they only have one circuit available for FOH power, I have a cable that I built so I can loop the power of the bottom conditioner to the top one. It's basically a short powercon with a blue input and grey output on each end. It leaves me with one out on the second conditioner, plus I used basic furman 8x conditioners mounted in the rear of the rack so I have 2 courtesy edisons available.
It cost a little more to do all powercon connections, but it makes it real obvious to my guys which cables go the audio and which go the lighting... since lighting seems to be part of the deal these days.
Re: Wiring an amp rack
I'm not a fan of power 'conditioners' on amps for a few reasons. One is that they really aren't designed for the current loads that amps can place on them, especially large ones. Two is that most except for the best, like Surge X, use parallel topology MOV surge suppression which 1) fail without warning and 2) can start to leak and cause noise & in some cases shock problems. Personally I only use them for FOH racks mainly for the lighting and the voltage meters. I've currently got one Furman with leaking MOVs that I'm about to snip the critters out of. The power supply in the amp should have all the conditioning you need. So-called power conditions will do nothing for inadequate mains power or incorrect wiring. If you want good surge protection for over-voltage conditions, take a look at the 20A Surge X models. They still may not be adequate if you're running your amps full tilt with low impedance loads.
Greg
I'm not a fan of power 'conditioners' on amps for a few reasons. One is that they really aren't designed for the current loads that amps can place on them, especially large ones. Two is that most except for the best, like Surge X, use parallel topology MOV surge suppression which 1) fail without warning and 2) can start to leak and cause noise & in some cases shock problems. Personally I only use them for FOH racks mainly for the lighting and the voltage meters. I've currently got one Furman with leaking MOVs that I'm about to snip the critters out of. The power supply in the amp should have all the conditioning you need. So-called power conditions will do nothing for inadequate mains power or incorrect wiring. If you want good surge protection for over-voltage conditions, take a look at the 20A Surge X models. They still may not be adequate if you're running your amps full tilt with low impedance loads.
Greg
Re: Wiring an amp rack
Surge X is nice, but a little out of my price range for this project. This PA get's used on average once a month in Country Club ballroom type settings. So the Furman's arent really being used for conditioning aspect, more for the power strip aspect. The XTI 2k's pull 14A at maximum power but I average about 10amps max on the USWs, far less on the UPAs. Ideally I would like to have a dual 20A power non conditioning panel that accepts two twist lock. The devils work is never done!
Surge X is nice, but a little out of my price range for this project. This PA get's used on average once a month in Country Club ballroom type settings. So the Furman's arent really being used for conditioning aspect, more for the power strip aspect. The XTI 2k's pull 14A at maximum power but I average about 10amps max on the USWs, far less on the UPAs. Ideally I would like to have a dual 20A power non conditioning panel that accepts two twist lock. The devils work is never done!
Re: Wiring an amp rack
The point is, you're not conditioning shit. Even if you bought a Surge X you'd just have a really excellent surge protector. That's not conditioning. The only conditioning I've ever seen done is by a bottle in my shower labeled "Herbal Essences". What conditioning is in the context of power distribution I have no idea.
What you're really doing is putting a 15A circuit breaker between your amps and the wall outlet's breaker. You're also introducing some MOVs, and maybe a power switch.
The point is, you're not conditioning shit. Even if you bought a Surge X you'd just have a really excellent surge protector. That's not conditioning. The only conditioning I've ever seen done is by a bottle in my shower labeled "Herbal Essences". What conditioning is in the context of power distribution I have no idea.
What you're really doing is putting a 15A circuit breaker between your amps and the wall outlet's breaker. You're also introducing some MOVs, and maybe a power switch.
Re: Wiring an amp rack
+2, at least
Having cut the MOVs out of handful of these class of units (usually because they were leaking) they're nothing more than what Bennett says.
The Surge-X product is very good at absorbing and dissipating the energy of a surge, but its also not conditioning anything.
Since every amplifier is taking AC, rectifying it to DC, and then re-modulating it, the ultimate (and only) "conditioner" in an amplifier is its power supply's rectification and filtering.
+2, at least
Having cut the MOVs out of handful of these class of units (usually because they were leaking) they're nothing more than what Bennett says.
The Surge-X product is very good at absorbing and dissipating the energy of a surge, but its also not conditioning anything.
Since every amplifier is taking AC, rectifying it to DC, and then re-modulating it, the ultimate (and only) "conditioner" in an amplifier is its power supply's rectification and filtering.
Re: Wiring an amp rack
Ah, thanks guys, very good points of which never came to mind, it all makes total sense.
Ah, thanks guys, very good points of which never came to mind, it all makes total sense.
Re: Wiring an amp rack
I have split my amps so I just have the FOH amp rack having a PLX3002 and a PLX1804 with a DRPA so I go ahead and use a rack rider type power unit for lights, voltmeter, and as a central power switch. Any surge protection is a bonus. I have a similar unit with voltmeter in my FOH processor rack.
Mike McNany
I have split my amps so I just have the FOH amp rack having a PLX3002 and a PLX1804 with a DRPA so I go ahead and use a rack rider type power unit for lights, voltmeter, and as a central power switch. Any surge protection is a bonus. I have a similar unit with voltmeter in my FOH processor rack.
Mike McNany