Working with cupped mics

J

Jared Koopman

Junior
Jun 13, 2012
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Taken from another thread... http://soundforums.net/product-reviews/97-digidesign-sc48-3.html#post65811

"My SC48 is on it's second gig today at a local hip hop festival. This is the first show I've mixed Hip Hop on an SC48, and the EQ and built in comps are excellent for taming even the worst ball cupping MC's." Tom Manchester

So I provided equipment for hip hop dance competition this past weekend and had this very issue. "FOH" was setup stage right behind the main speaker stack next to the DJ table. Due to the number of people and how they all gathered around the dance floor it was impossible to walk the crowd without walking through the middle of the competition.

All 3 of the DJ/Emcees cupped the mic.

What are some "general guidelines" for working with people that do cup the mic? Any practical suggestions for eq'ing a cupped mic?

I was using a Soundcraft M8. I did have HPF engaged (100hz), and the mids I had at about 6db down @ 240hz. Also had them running through a comp to tame the shouting match peaks. Anything else I could have done to even out the tone/increase intelligibility? Insert a geq?

I didnt have any feedback issues and the venue and group that hired us were happy with it and even paid us a bit extra at the end. My question is merely because I wasn't happy with it and just curious what I could do in future situations.

Suggestions appreciated!
 
Re: Working with cupped mics

Dave Barnett said:
A PEQ set with a dip at about 1.6KHz seems to help.
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Depends on the mic. I advise against SM58 for this. Strangely, I've had much better success using condensers (I use SM86) on mic-cupping rappers and MCs.

The main problem is not the EQ or the comp required; it's getting enough level in the monitors after the mic's pattern is destroyed (it becomes about omni when cupped).
 
Re: Working with cupped mics

Silas Pradetto said:
Depends on the mic. I advise against SM58 for this. Strangely, I've had much better success using condensers (I use SM86) on mic-cupping rappers and MCs.

The main problem is not the EQ or the comp required; it's getting enough level in the monitors after the mic's pattern is destroyed (it becomes about omni when cupped).
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Well they were Sm58's and one Sennheiser E935. I will keep that in mind tho for the next time.
 
Re: Working with cupped mics

Actually a boost at 1.6k is the "Snoop Dog" frequency!
Would high pass as high as possible. Cupping the mic turns it basically into an omni and any experience with that might help.
 
Re: Working with cupped mics

I always turn my highs in the monitors down just about half way on the EQ, and that seems to help me. and advise them about holding the mic down at their side.
 
Re: Working with cupped mics

I use OM7's, great for this application. Also got the lead singer from Roomful of Blues to switch to an OM7 because cups his mic. 58's are pretty much unusable if you need high gain in the monitors, and you always do with Hip Hop.
 
Re: Working with cupped mics

Graham C Mellor said:
I use OM7's, great for this application. Also got the lead singer from Roomful of Blues to switch to an OM7 because cups his mic. 58's are pretty much unusable if you need high gain in the monitors, and you always do with Hip Hop.
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Roomful... The World's Smallest Big Band! Some of my favorite musical moments involved Greg Piccolo and Porky Cohen (RIP).
 
Re: Working with cupped mics

Tim McCulloch said:
Roomful... The World's Smallest Big Band! Some of my favorite musical moments involved Greg Piccolo and Porky Cohen (RIP).
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I knew people outside of Rhode Island had heard of them! Haha. I have some close friends in the band, both past and present, and their long time TM and FOH guy and I do shows together frequently.
 
Re: Working with cupped mics

I want to market a replacement ball for the 58 - with spikes distributed all around the sphere! I would look cool, and be prety much perfect for Metal singers, and only a masochist would cup it.
 
Re: Working with cupped mics

Jared Koopman said:
My question is merely because I wasn't happy with it and just curious what I could do in future situations.

Suggestions appreciated!
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Jared,

If you can find any Electro Voice DS-35 or PL-95 mics, you won't have any problems with people cupping them, as the back part of the screen is actually already enclosed inside.

They have a bit more gain before feedback than SM-58s, but way more when cupped, since it does not change the response.

Art
 
Re: Working with cupped mics

Art Welter said:
Jared,

If you can find any Electro Voice DS-35 or PL-95 mics, you won't have any problems with people cupping them, as the back part of the screen is actually already enclosed inside.

They have a bit more gain before feedback than SM-58s, but way more when cupped, since it does not change the response.

Art
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Thanks Art!
 
Re: Working with cupped mics

Jared Koopman said:
Thanks Art!
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You are welcome.

I owned a few EV DS-35 and PL-95, it was not until Wendy O. Williams (WOW!) of the Plasmatics used one as a hammer on a groper's hand did I realize that the back of the screen covered a metal hemisphere.

Went to bend out the screen, only the front part comes off- removing the dent from the back took a hammer and chisel with the mic in a vise.
The groper's fingers must have looked pretty bad the next day..
 
Re: Working with cupped mics

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Shure KSM9HS. Shure Americas | KSM9HS Handheld Vocal Microphone

The Nashville Shure artist rep has said that the capsule was designed specifically to mitigate the effects of cupping the mic, including proximity effect and pattern stability. The Kenny Chesney tour is using the wireless version on an Axient TX. Opie, Chesney's BME, told me that it has completely solved issues that they were having with Kenny habitually cupping the mic.
 
Re: Working with cupped mics

Dave Barker said:
This always worked well for me:

View attachment 8610
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A white South African friend of mine worked at BET studios East in Washington DC for several years mixing monitors.

[i'll pause for a moment while we all reflect on this statement...]

Anyway, he's a brilliant sound guy. But he also is easily the most brazen person i have ever met. His approach was to tell the artist to not cup the mic or he would turn off the monitors. Then when they cupped the mic, he would turn off the monitors. And he never backed down. Many an amusing exchange came from that approach, i can assure you [i was often mixing FOH from a safe distance away].

Not sure how professional that approach was, but it should be said that the broadcast engineer also backed him to the hilt as well.
 
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