Would you buy this product?

[Phil Graham]

Hey all,

Let me first say that this isn't a backhanded launch of something sitting in the proverbial basement, I've done no formal development outside of my head yet. I learned my lesson from a year ago when I considered writing short audio instructional pamphlets for sale, and have since discovered that preparing those in parallel with a monthly 2000 word column for FOH magazine is more moonlight writing than I can reasonably produce :roll:

So, before launching into another venture foolishly, and ending up with a pile of half-finished work, I thought I would do a little market research:

Would you be interested in small, inexpensive "problem solver" barrel adapters for various microphones and mix situations?

These would pre-shape the response of various microphones (in a microphone specific manner), so that you can free up console eq for those small speakers on stick type events where the console doesn't have as much flexibility or power as you might desire.

 

[David Karol]

Re: Would you buy this product?

This is a phenomenal idea. Let it be known that it was seen on SFN first . I that something like this would be great for 'plug-and-play' applications.

Installs are all over the place with 58s and no EQ. Many times there is no console- they're just plugging into a wall jack feeding a basic mixer in a closet somewhere. For a university lecture hall, high school auditorium, or corporate meeting room, there's generally no budget (or real need) to keep an operator and console for a whole day.

Usually system DSP is limited to speaker outputs on a processor, and is fixed after the installation. Figure the PA was tuned 'flat', or to sound great with music. NOT for a 58. Everyone knows that plenty of EQ is needed to make speech through that microphone even intelligible.

__________
As I'm writing this post, I'm sitting in a coffee shop with endless free coffee refills. (I plan to be here a while). There's currently a performer on stage singing into a wireless SM58, going to said 'jack on wall' presumably feeding said 'basic mixer in the closet'. It sounds exactly like that. A barrel with '58Q' in line with the XLR would do wonders here.

There's a DI for the acoustic guitar, and a Yamaha club series wedge. This is all going through a craptastically tuned, flown VRX rig (2+sub/side) pointed at the back wall.

 

[Greg Cameron]

Re: Would you buy this product?

Would you be interested in small, inexpensive "problem solver" barrel adapters for various microphones and mix situations?

These would pre-shape the response of various microphones (in a microphone specific manner), so that you can free up console eq for those small speakers on stick type events where the console doesn't have as much flexibility or power as you might desire.

You mean stuff like the Earthworks Kickpad? Flexible high-pass filters are one thing often missing from budget consoles. That's about the only thing I can think of that's not well covered. Something with at least 12dB/oct. roll off. with user selectable frequencies from 80Hz to 150Hz.

 

[Dick Rees]

Re: Would you buy this product?

Sounds like a solution in search of a problem, and the problem would seem to be the unpredictability of the shortcomings and haphazard signal path of the vaiously compromised systems you're seeking to trouble-shoot.

Many of the small SOS type events are now using powered speakers which themselves have an onboard selection of usage-curves. Fixed solutions in a barrel adapter might well be of some use, but the main one I suspect would be voice intelligibility. Beyond taking a "shotgun" stab it that problem, I think such an adapter or set of adapters might well be too "fixed" for the intended application.

If I were approaching the problem, I'd look at a small box rather than a barrel adapter. Said box would have 12-24 "pre-sets" which could be dialed in, from "smile curve" to "voice clarity", etc. rather than "one size fits all".

 

[Lee Douglas]

Re: Would you buy this product?

Flexible high-pass filters are one thing often missing from budget consoles. That's about the only thing I can think of that's not well covered. Something with at least 12dB/oct. roll off. with user selectable frequencies from 80Hz to 150Hz.

That was the first thing that came to my mind as well. The Shure A15HP comes close and I keep several on hand, but adjustable would be really cool. How about a simple DSP in a barrel with a USB port for programming? Download presets into it or customize parameters onsite with a laptop/tablet. Suddenly that doesn't sound so inexpensive... Why not make it Bluetooth then? Yeah, I'm with David- way too much coffee this morning!

 

[TJ Cornish]

Re: Would you buy this product?

As a fully-entrenched digital console user, I'm pretty content with the processing I have available, so wouldn't likely be in the market for something like this.

 

[Phil Graham]

Re: Would you buy this product?

This is a phenomenal idea. Let it be known that it was seen on SFN first . I that something like this would be great for 'plug-and-play' applications.

Installs are all over the place with 58s and no EQ. Many times there is no console- they're just plugging into a wall jack feeding a basic mixer in a closet somewhere. For a university lecture hall, high school auditorium, or corporate meeting room, there's generally no budget (or real need) to keep an operator and console for a whole day.

David, this is exactly the type of application, and the SM58 is a good example. Virtually all experienced users of the SM58 end up with an eq in the vicinity of 500Hz to minimize some of the microphone's inherent honkiness. So a high pass, plus such a single eq would be a good example of the type of thing I've been thinking over. I'd end up doing a little more than that to a SM58, but it illustrates the general principle.

 

[Phil Graham]

Re: Would you buy this product?

That was the first thing that came to my mind as well. The Shure A15HP comes close and I keep several on hand, but adjustable would be really cool. How about a simple DSP in a barrel with a USB port for programming? Download presets into it or customize parameters onsite with a laptop/tablet. Suddenly that doesn't sound so inexpensive... Why not make it Bluetooth then? Yeah, I'm with David- way too much coffee this morning!

Lee,

My original conception was phantom powered barrel dsp with bluetooth control via a smartphone application. That concept remains, but I'd need to start decidedly more simply. Initial releases would probably be passive and analog.

 

[Phil Graham]

Re: Would you buy this product?

As a fully-entrenched digital console user, I'm pretty content with the processing I have available, so wouldn't likely be in the market for something like this.

Thanks TJ, absolutely the contrarian feedback on the idea I desire.

 

[Chris Nixon]

Re: Would you buy this product?

I carry polarity inverting XLR barrels for consoles that don't have the feature, and have been meaning to pick up some pads. Because polarity inversion is a "YES / NO" type of decision a barrel to do this makes sense. I'm not as sure about something like EQ where the desired settings are much more variable, but it makes sense specifically for the SM58 given it's ubiquity and need of EQ.

Could you build the input parametric strip from a small console into a box with recessed knobs/dials? It could look a bit like this.

Shure Americas | Microphones, Wireless Systems, Headphones, Earphones

Chris

 

[John Roberts]

Re: Would you buy this product?

Hey all,

Let me first say that this isn't a backhanded launch of something sitting in the proverbial basement, I've done no formal development outside of my head yet. I learned my lesson from a year ago when I considered writing short audio instructional pamphlets for sale, and have since discovered that preparing those in parallel with a monthly 2000 word column for FOH magazine is more moonlight writing than I can reasonably produce :roll:

So, before launching into another venture foolishly, and ending up with a pile of half-finished work, I thought I would do a little market research:

Would you be interested in small, inexpensive "problem solver" barrel adapters for various microphones and mix situations?

Inexpensive is the magic word... These days you can just about buy a small mixer for the cost of making a DSP in a barrel

These would pre-shape the response of various microphones (in a microphone specific manner), so that you can free up console eq for those small speakers on stick type events where the console doesn't have as much flexibility or power as you might desire.

While equalizing the mic seems like it would free up the EQ for other use, unless you can re-patch that EQ to an output it remains stuck on that one input channel.

Having worked in and around mixers, my suspicion is the cost to make these in small quantity would probably price them higher than the perceived utility. Sometimes just because you can do something with technology does not mean it will be a merchantable product.

I would look for some higher value benefit, to justify the cost. Perhaps something like a feedback killer that would presumably require similar hardware. While IIRC this has been done before.

My crystal ball says DSP will show up inside every warm box with a line cord... not sure how much opportunity exists in DSP accessory market.

JR

PS: Do not take my word for it... do a rough BOM (Mic pre, DSP, RF hooks, etc). Then come up with package and cost to assemble. Figure a selling price that allows you to advertise and operate a business. Not to mention the actual work and capital involved to execute on your plan.

 

[Robert Lofgren]

Re: Would you buy this product?

I'd love to have a mic with built-in feedback supressor and perhaps also an one-knob compressor a'la yamaha.

 

[Tim Weaver]

Re: Would you buy this product?

I work with auctioneers on a fairly regular basis. I think that if you had a barrel that had EQ, HP, and a compressor built for a 58 you might have a market. These guys plug in to whatever "system du jour" is there and then complain about how it sounds whilst cupping the mic and yelling into it for more level.

 

[Ben Lawrence]

Re: Would you buy this product?

This is starting to sound more like a mic level stomp box.

 

[kristianjohnsen]

Re: Would you buy this product?

I'd look at a small box rather than a barrel adapter. Said box would have 12-24 "pre-sets" which could be dialed in, from "smile curve" to "voice clarity", etc. rather than "one size fits all".

Have you checked out the little digital mixer from Bose? Interesting product.

 

[Lee Douglas]

Re: Would you buy this product?

Lee,

My original conception was phantom powered barrel dsp with bluetooth control via a smartphone application. That concept remains, but I'd need to start decidedly more simply. Initial releases would probably be passive and analog.

I'll be first in line for one of those! Still like the idea of a variable high pass. The problem I see with the fixed curve barrel for a 58, for instance, is that when you're working on an insufficient enough system that might benefit from it, there are more unpredictable problems/anomalies with everything on the other side of the microphone. Any preset curve may end up enhancing the problem rather than giving the intended results.

 

[Jeff Babcock]

Re: Would you buy this product?

Lee,

My original conception was phantom powered barrel dsp with bluetooth control via a smartphone application. That concept remains, but I'd need to start decidedly more simply. Initial releases would probably be passive and analog.

Price would be a really key factor here. If these things were 50 bucks I would buy a bunch.... but if they start going much beyond that, my interest would start fading quickly. An analog device would not interest me unless it had several switchable options - such as HPF on/off, and a few defeatable EQ boots/cuts.

FYI, that Earthworks thing is $100, which I think is overpriced to the point that I have zero interest in it. It's pretty much just a cut at around 300Hz and some top end rolloff to emphasize the boom-boom, they are likely making a good profit on them.

 

[Art Welter]

Re: Would you buy this product?

David, this is exactly the type of application, and the SM58 is a good example. Virtually all experienced users of the SM58 end up with an eq in the vicinity of 500Hz to minimize some of the microphone's inherent honkiness. So a high pass, plus such a single eq would be a good example of the type of thing I've been thinking over. I'd end up doing a little more than that to a SM58, but it illustrates the general principle.

Phil,

Funny, in the years that I regularly used SM58, I never found the mic to have an issue at 500 Hz, though there are particular voices or speakers with a problem there.
Been a long time since I used an SM58, perhaps the frequency response has been changed from the "good old days".
Nearly all dynamic cardioid mics have a low frequency proximity effect when used close, a large increase of frequencies in the 125-200 Hz range, getting rid of that could almost be a "one size fit all" de-mudder.

However, if a PA had no EQ, and the proximity effect was an issue, I'd just use an EV RE series "variable D" (no proximic effect) or SM 54 mic.

If a barrel connector was passive (can't rely on a no EQ pa to have phantom) and had a 6 or 8 position dip switch that could notch out various frequencies for cheap, I'd consider it.

If I were in need of such a product, I'd be more inclined to use a much more flexible $25 EQ and a couple of XLR-1/4" adapters already in my kit:

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: Would you buy this product?

I allways take off a couple of dB at 500 Hz with the 58, and I tend to cut a couple of dB at 1200 Hz (closer to 1000 for male vocals) as well, so my ideal barrel would be a passive five switch three position affair something like this:

Low cut : off - 80Hz - 110Hz
Bass rolloff : off - some - a lot
500Hz : flat - -2.5dB - -5dB
1100Hz : flat - -2.5dB - -5dB
Treble rolloff : flat - some - more

actually, for the treble, lift - flat - roloff would probably be more to my liking, but harder to achieve in a passive setup.

 

[Phil Graham]

Re: Cost, BOM, and pricing considerations

Price would be a really key factor here. If these things were 50 bucks I would buy a bunch.... but if they start going much beyond that, my interest would start fading quickly. An analog device would not interest me unless it had several switchable options - such as HPF on/off, and a few defeatable EQ boots/cuts.

Jeff,

I think its fair to say that price is a key factor on every purchase

I'd love to think that I could get a product out the door at a $50 price point that did all this, but from a startup electronics venture standpoint, it simply isn't possible. I'd be happy with a $50 build of materials (BOM) in low volume. John Roberts' cautionary post above is well advised.

As anyone who works for a manufacturer can tell you, the gross margins on your BOM have to be pretty hefty to be a sustainable business. You have to amortize your development cost, provide enough working capital to carry at least a small inventory, account for failures/returns/exchanges, provide enough sustaining cash flow to cover your variable costs, and ultimately drive a product with net positive cash flow within a reasonable amount of time. Without these pieces you're neither profitable nor sustainable.

Also, over the life cycle of the product you've got to provide some margin to lower costs while still retaining a profitable product in anticipation of the ever present push of market pressure and competition.

If you want the above product at your desired price point, a major player is going to have to put it out in the field.