X32 - Uli please consider the recording crowd

P

Pauly Mel

Sophomore
Oct 1, 2012
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Australia
Hi,

Hopefully, splitting from the (very busy.... too busy) X32 thread is ok.

I purchased the X32 for recording. Subsequently I've discovered there is (currently) no way to use the eq, compression, effects etc of the desk (in recorded material) as the X-UF interface only takes signal from the preamps.

I'm _praying_ that a firmware update will soon allow us to choose the 'tap point' for the X32 Card outputs - Pre EQ, Pre Fader, Post Fader - Otherwise we really don't enjoy much of the desk.

Thanks
Pauly
 
Re: X32 - Uli please consider the recording crowd

To clarify, do you mean that you want to do a recording with changes to eq and fader movements tracked in the recording ?

I thought you'd want to get a clean and un-altered signal down which then allows you to manipulate post-recording till your hearts content. Either in protools etc or, on playback through the X32 where you can use the fader, eq etc for mixdown.


andrew
 
Re: X32 - Uli please consider the recording crowd

G'day Andrew,

No - I understand and accept that fader moves will not be recorded nor would I want that (That I can see anyway :)) - I also understand that a lot of the time I'll be wanting exactly what you suggest - IE untouched signals straight from the preamp. What I'm talking about is thinks like the compression, EQ, or effects being able to be recorded.A lot of the time, I want (for example) the low cut to be included in my recording chain - or Compression or EQ ... even (sometimes) effects are good to capture at the time rather than trying to re do them later.

Thanks
Pauly


andrew gissing said:
To clarify, do you mean that you want to do a recording with changes to eq and fader movements tracked in the recording ?

I thought you'd want to get a clean and un-altered signal down which then allows you to manipulate post-recording till your hearts content. Either in protools etc or, on playback through the X32 where you can use the fader, eq etc for mixdown.


andrew
Click to expand...
 
Re: X32 - Uli please consider the recording crowd

When I had my Behringer DDX, I could record into Cubase, and then route the channels to the DDX and use the EQ and effects of the mixer. I would then route the signal back in Cubase. Of course staying in digital meant no loss of quality in sound as no A/D, D/A is taking place. I would think you can do the same thing with the X32. I am also considering getting the X32 for my studio as well.
 
Re: X32 - Uli please consider the recording crowd

andrew gissing said:
To clarify, do you mean that you want to do a recording with changes to eq and fader movements tracked in the recording ?

I thought you'd want to get a clean and un-altered signal down which then allows you to manipulate post-recording till your hearts content. Either in protools etc or, on playback through the X32 where you can use the fader, eq etc for mixdown.


andrew
Click to expand...

I always record this way live but I can see how you might want to commit to sounds in a studio setting, though usually I don't do that either. There is so much control after the fact I see no need.
 
Re: X32 - Uli please consider the recording crowd

When using the X32 for processing already recorded material, it is perfectly possible to do that by routing from the DAW to channels, then using the buses to do the return to daw. Even when recording in the studio, as you seldom track more than 16 channels at a time, a work-around is perfectly possible this way.
Having said that, being able to select the tap point for the card is certainly a feature that I believe Behringer ought to consider.
I would think that one reason why such an option isn´t allways a good idea is that it is easy to make a mistake in routing to and from the daw that causes the tap point to come after the return point when at the same time monitoring the inputs on the daw, with the obviously horrible consequences that will have. So do you protect the inexperienced user or do you give the experienced user the full potential of the equipment? I vote for the latter.
 
Re: X32 - Uli please consider the recording crowd

John Chiara said:
There is so much control after the fact I see no need.
Click to expand...

+1 - I don't see the need either. The current implementation is great IMHO - simple and ideal for most circumstances.

HPF, compression, eq, and related FX are all very easily implemented in even the most basic DAW. I have mixed a lot of recordings done by other people where I really WISH I was getting the direct, unprocessed signal from the preamp like the X32 provides. Rarely does somebody pre-process something that I couldn't have done better with had I been given the raw track.

Pauly, if you are really insistent on this idea, you're probably better off picking up a "character" preamp and "character" EQ as your money channel input strip, and just use the X32 as an interface for that channel.

FWIW (not much)
Cheers
Jeff
 
Re: X32 - Uli please consider the recording crowd

Hi Jeff,

I have preamps, eqs etc etc - I'd still like to see the capability to tap the input same as you can with the 'normal' channels - IE - Preamp, Pre Fader & Post Fader.

There are many times I'd like to record exactly what I'm hearing through the desk. I'm well aware of the versatility after the fact, and that once a clean signal is recorded, you can do whatever you want - BUT - often when recording, part of the .. umm.. 'Magic' is partly derived from suble eq, or compressor settings, or (dare I say it). MANUAL compression.. there I said it.. fader moves that cannot be undone.

Thanks for listening,
Pauly



Jeff Babcock said:
+1 - I don't see the need either. The current implementation is great IMHO - simple and ideal for most circumstances.

HPF, compression, eq, and related FX are all very easily implemented in even the most basic DAW. I have mixed a lot of recordings done by other people where I really WISH I was getting the direct, unprocessed signal from the preamp like the X32 provides. Rarely does somebody pre-process something that I couldn't have done better with had I been given the raw track.

Pauly, if you are really insistent on this idea, you're probably better off picking up a "character" preamp and "character" EQ as your money channel input strip, and just use the X32 as an interface for that channel.

FWIW (not much)
Cheers
Jeff
Click to expand...
 
Re: X32 - Uli please consider the recording crowd

Well for my part I think dynamic automation (with multiple passes) would be a great addition - covering not only faders but also all dynamics, EQ , effects settings and routing- (maybe if I say it enough times it may happen!)
 
Re: X32 - Uli please consider the recording crowd

Pauly Mel said:
part of the .. umm.. 'Magic' is partly derived from suble eq, or compressor settings, or (dare I say it). MANUAL compression.. there I said it.. fader moves that cannot be undone.
Click to expand...

Hi Pauly,
I'm guessing you record and mix from start to finish? In that case maybe that works for you. In my world, I'm not always mixing something I tracked myself. Some people's "magic" I have been given to work with is entirely un-magical, "craptastic" as I like to say.

Then again, I am more the type that uses heavy automation of eq, compression, fx in the mixing process to get the desired final result, rather than a "go for it" type. I often have more automation lanes open in the DAW timeline than tracks! Maybe I'm just anal. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
 
Re: X32 - Uli please consider the recording crowd

Pauly Mel said:
Hi,

Hopefully, splitting from the (very busy.... too busy) X32 thread is ok.

I purchased the X32 for recording. Subsequently I've discovered there is (currently) no way to use the eq, compression, effects etc of the desk (in recorded material) as the X-UF interface only takes signal from the preamps.

I'm _praying_ that a firmware update will soon allow us to choose the 'tap point' for the X32 Card outputs - Pre EQ, Pre Fader, Post Fader - Otherwise we really don't enjoy much of the desk.

Thanks
Pauly
Click to expand...


My guess is that they didn't want to bother with a function mode which most practical sound folk/musicians/recordists consider to be the wrong way to approach things. With clean, unprocessed tracks you can do whatever you want. With tracks that are recorded with processing there exists a significant possibility that the tracks will be less "mixable" because you can't undo the processing.

IOW, recording compression, EQ, etc opens the door for errors to enter into the process that would otherwise be avoided. Put that stuff in as needed after laying down the tracks. That way you leave yourself the choice to process or not. Without that choice you'll be creating a whole lot more work for yourself and severely limiting your chances of getting the best mix.
 
Re: X32 - Uli please consider the recording crowd

Hi Jeff,

Most of the time yes - However I'd like to make a more general observation about some of the replies I'm getting to this request - Not aimed directly at you but worth saying I hope;

Some replies explain that 'We should protect the recording by limiting the options available' - I disagree -

It's true - _some_ people will make a right royal mess of _some_ recordings because they make a mistake with the routing, screw up some EQ settings etc etc. I will probably, but that's life. This is no reason to limit the desks functionality. Many of us spend too much times looking for ways to protect others from silly mistakes, and in doing so remove the possibility for increased functionality and adventure!

There is so much more that would be available to those recording with the X32 by simply allowing selection of the 'tap point' and lets face it - We don't _have_ to use it, so those of us that want dry (and that will be the majority of my recorded channels too) can do so easily.

Thanks
Pauly



Jeff Babcock said:
Hi Pauly,
I'm guessing you record and mix from start to finish? In that case maybe that works for you. In my world, I'm not always mixing something I tracked myself. Some people's "magic" I have been given to work with is entirely un-magical, "craptastic" as I like to say.

Then again, I am more the type that uses heavy automation of eq, compression, fx in the mixing process to get the desired final result, rather than a "go for it" type. I often have more automation lanes open in the DAW timeline than tracks! Maybe I'm just anal. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
Click to expand...
 
Re: X32 - Uli please consider the recording crowd

For me, and I run a commercial studio, using the x32 as a live board, as probably 95% of users will, I can see the usefulness of always knowing... Without checking as there often isn't time in a multiband situation..that my recording is always gonna be exactly the same. If I offer a recording option I don't want to have to check routing or anything else that disrupts the live show. In a strictly straight studio tracking session I am still mixing on faders but only for my own monitoring setup. Maybe you have more leisurely sessions and top notch players that don't make mistakes so if you mess up they can redo the magic. Wish I did!
 
Re: X32 - Uli please consider the recording crowd

G'day John,

Yes - in your situation I would do exactly the same. Here in Australia, I'd be surprised if the Live/Recording percentages are quite as skewed. That's the beauty of what I'm suggesting - The functional template already exists in the firmware (IE; busses) - so we'd have the best of both worlds - Take the desk out live, everything is taken from the preamp. Recording... some channels Post whatever based on choice.

Pauly

John Chiara said:
For me, and I run a commercial studio, using the x32 as a live board, as probably 95% of users will, I can see the usefulness of always knowing... Without checking as there often isn't time in a multiband situation..that my recording is always gonna be exactly the same. If I offer a recording option I don't want to have to check routing or anything else that disrupts the live show. In a strictly straight studio tracking session I am still mixing on faders but only for my own monitoring setup. Maybe you have more leisurely sessions and top notch players that don't make mistakes so if you mess up they can redo the magic. Wish I did!
Click to expand...
 
Re: X32 - Uli please consider the recording crowd

Hello everyone,

I would like to introduce myself. I am Dennie Edwards, a USA BEHRINGER Product Specialist. I am located in Louisiana and focus mostly on the South Eastern 12 states of the country.

While "printing to tape" is a very subjective subject, I wanted to let everyone know that there is a way to do this on the X 32, if desired.

On the Routing Menu, there is a CARD OUT page. There you can choose what sources feed your computer's DAW. You can select the OUT 1-8 or OUT 9-16 options. Whatever you have chosen to be sources for the Analog Outputs, can now also be routed to the X UF Card. Also, you can select P 16 1-8 and P 16 9-16 as well. In this way, you can route up to 32 different audio signals to your card that can be Pre, Post, routed to Mix Busses, Mix Matrix, etc.

If you need any clarification, you can PM me anytime.


Dennie Edwards
Specialist, Product Support
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
 
Re: X32 - Uli please consider the recording crowd

Dennie Edwards said:
Hello everyone,

I would like to introduce myself. I am Dennie Edwards, a USA BEHRINGER Product Specialist. I am located in Louisiana and focus mostly on the South Eastern 12 states of the country.

While "printing to tape" is a very subjective subject, I wanted to let everyone know that there is a way to do this on the X 32, if desired.

On the Routing Menu, there is a CARD OUT page. There you can choose what sources feed your computer's DAW. You can select the OUT 1-8 or OUT 9-16 options. Whatever you have chosen to be sources for the Analog Outputs, can now also be routed to the X UF Card. Also, you can select P 16 1-8 and P 16 9-16 as well. In this way, you can route up to 32 different audio signals to your card that can be Pre, Post, routed to Mix Busses, Mix Matrix, etc.

If you need any clarification, you can PM me anytime.


Dennie Edwards
Specialist, Product Support
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
Click to expand...

I have a routing question, more so than a recording. My monitor engineer wanted to know if you can route the AES50 output from console1 (channels 1-32) to a second monitor console (channels 33-64) and have 16 mixed outs on the second X32? His idea is to have 64 inputs total with 16 outputs.
 
Re: X32 - Uli please consider the recording crowd

Bill McKelvey said:
I have a routing question, more so than a recording. My monitor engineer wanted to know if you can route the AES50 output from console1 (channels 1-32) to a second monitor console (channels 33-64) and have 16 mixed outs on the second X32? His idea is to have 64 inputs total with 16 outputs.
Click to expand...

since I just finished doing something very similar today, I think I can answer this one. Short answer is no, you can't. What you're talking about is called 'cascading' and requires that the outputs from the first console be 'mixed' with the outputs of the second desk The x32 cannot currently do this.

what you CAN do is what I just did. Namely, I used inputs on my second desk to use as cascade inputs and then just simply routed those inputs to the appropriate mix out and no where else. If you wanted all 16 outputs cascaded, you'd need to burn 16 inputs to do it. That would still leave 16 inputs plus the aux ins on both desks, which is between 48 and 60 inputs depending on your needs, which isn't too shabby. In my case, i needed 48 inputs in a FOH situation (to replace an ML5000) and only needed to cascade 8 buses, so I've got 56 inputs plus auxes to play with, which suits me well.

im not sure if true cascade ability is something that can be added later in firmware as it does require added mixing, but if it can be, it'd be cool. It's something Yamaha has always had and I've used it a LOT in the past to stretch smaller desks into bigger ones.
 
Re: X32 - Uli please consider the recording crowd

Bill,

The quick answer is "YES".

The details are; Each of the AES50 ports (A and B) have the option of audio of your choice being sent to another console. So, to do this, you would go to the Routing Page, select either AES50 A or AES50 B (which ever is connected to the second X 32) and choose what you would like to send to it.

If you are using Console 1 as the monitor desk, (I would choose this simply due to distance assuming mixing side of stage) then you can use AES50 of your choice to connect to X 32 Console 2. On the Routing Page of Console 1 you would select the AES50 port that you are connected to Console 2 with, select the audio you want to send in groups of 8. Then, on Console 2, you would go to the Routing Page, HOME, and select what channels are your input. In this case AES50(A or B) would be your sources selected in groups of 8.

Then, for each channel, press the config / preamp view button. There you would then pick the individual channel for that input from the list of all available inputs.

If you have further questions, please let me know and I will be glad to help.

Dennie Edwards
Specialist, Product Support
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
 
Re: X32 - Uli please consider the recording crowd

Dennie Edwards said:
Bill,

The quick answer is "YES".

The details are; Each of the AES50 ports (A and B) have the option of audio of your choice being sent to another console. So, to do this, you would go to the Routing Page, select either AES50 A or AES50 B (which ever is connected to the second X 32) and choose what you would like to send to it.

If you are using Console 1 as the monitor desk, (I would choose this simply due to distance assuming mixing side of stage) then you can use AES50 of your choice to connect to X 32 Console 2. On the Routing Page of Console 1 you would select the AES50 port that you are connected to Console 2 with, select the audio you want to send in groups of 8. Then, on Console 2, you would go to the Routing Page, HOME, and select what channels are your input. In this case AES50(A or B) would be your sources selected in groups of 8.

Then, for each channel, press the config / preamp view button. There you would then pick the individual channel for that input from the list of all available inputs.

If you have further questions, please let me know and I will be glad to help.

Dennie Edwards
Specialist, Product Support
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
Click to expand...

I do not think it would work for what he asked about. Both consoles would be the monitor consoles. Console 1 would be analogue inputs 1-32 and console 2 would be analogue inputs 33-64. How do you link the 16 outputs (output would be from either console, not both)? The only way I could find is what Brian Maddox recommended, burn some inputs on console 2. So it would not be 64 inputs. I would be 64-(inputs from console 1)=X.

Did I, and Brian, miss something in the set-up? Would this work if an S16 was involved? Or just not possible at the present time.
 
Re: X32 - Uli please consider the recording crowd

Thanks Dennie,
What a good idea. I'd still like to be able to select the tap point in the firmware but that is a good temporary workaround.
Thankyou for the input
Pauly


Dennie Edwards said:
Hello everyone,

I would like to introduce myself. I am Dennie Edwards, a USA BEHRINGER Product Specialist. I am located in Louisiana and focus mostly on the South Eastern 12 states of the country.

While "printing to tape" is a very subjective subject, I wanted to let everyone know that there is a way to do this on the X 32, if desired.

On the Routing Menu, there is a CARD OUT page. There you can choose what sources feed your computer's DAW. You can select the OUT 1-8 or OUT 9-16 options. Whatever you have chosen to be sources for the Analog Outputs, can now also be routed to the X UF Card. Also, you can select P 16 1-8 and P 16 9-16 as well. In this way, you can route up to 32 different audio signals to your card that can be Pre, Post, routed to Mix Busses, Mix Matrix, etc.

If you need any clarification, you can PM me anytime.


Dennie Edwards
Specialist, Product Support
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
Click to expand...
 
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