Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.

Silas Pradetto

Silas Pradetto

Graduate Student
Jan 11, 2011
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Land of Steady Habits
www.concertsunlimited.com
I have to replace my last four LAB subs very quickly since I think they are sold. Here are the criteria:

  • Must be 22.5" or less in one dimension (quarter pack!)
  • A non-ridiculous quantity must have output near 4 LAB subs, or say, 8 double 18s
  • Response to 40Hz is required, lower is better though
  • I'd like to be able to move them by myself. I can move LABs, but not so easily.

As far as I know, nothing front loaded is going to fit the bill. The only thing that pops into my head immediately are TH118s, probably 4 to 6 of them. Another idea I had was maybe 8 Yorkville UCS1s?

According to my quick excel sheet, 8 UCS1s will be 1dB quieter than 4 LAB subs, while 4 TH118s will be about 2dB quieter than 4 LAB subs. The 6 TH118s would certainly do the job.

Cost-wise, the UCS1s are cheapest. The TH118s aren't so cheap. Another option was building some other DIY horn that is smaller than a LAB, but is there anything out there that could possibly fit the bill?
 
Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.

Jay Barracato said:
Are you looking to match the fulcrum tops?
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No, not really. I should have mentioned an additional criterion: I don't have unlimited power. Sure, four double 21 subs would do it, but I don't have the power at many of my shows to run a whole rack of IT12000HDs. And, the Fulcrum double 21s are more money than the TH118s!
 
Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.

One of the more affordable subwoofers, atleast here in Norway, is the EAW SB850z. Has a good low frequency extension, get's plenty loud and sounds good IMHO. But they are a bit bigger physically than what you're looking after.
 
Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.

Helge Dr. Bentsen said:
One of the more affordable subwoofers, atleast here in Norway, is the EAW SB850z. Has a good low frequency extension, get's plenty loud and sounds good IMHO. But they are a bit bigger physically than what you're looking after.
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Hi Helge. I know you're building LAB subs, have you heard them yet? Once you hear them you will understand why pretty much nothing front loaded will work for what I'm doing. The SB850/SB1000 etc are just nowhere close to the performance I need.
 
Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.

Ron Kimball said:
Those do look like TH-118 performance at a better price ...
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I don't know what TH 118's sound like so can't comment on that.
What I can say, is I am very happy with my pair of Orbit Shifters and that 4 or 6 would be quite impressive and excessively thumpy
 
Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.

Steve Hurt said:
I don't know what TH 118's sound like so can't comment on that.
What I can say, is I am very happy with my pair of Orbit Shifters and that 4 or 6 would be quite impressive and excessively thumpy
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Is there a review on these anywhere, especially a comparison to other subs that I could use as a reference?
 
Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.

I haven't posted one because I'm tired of the people that have never heard a JTR box but don't let that stop them from saying they won't do this or that.

In short, imagine a growler that goes 4 db lower and 9 DB louder. (than a newer Growler, 12 DB more than my old ones)
 
Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.

As much as I like Jeff and his company I suspect the Danley's win on resale value assuming you can get them for not much more than the JTR's. On paper they look to be pretty comparable in output and efficiency :) .
 
Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.

Ron Kimball said:
As much as I like Jeff and his company I suspect the Danley's win on resale value assuming you can get them for not much more than the JTR's. On paper they look to be pretty comparable in output and efficiency :) .
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The Danley's ought to resell for more! Heck they cost somewhere in the area of 60% more than the Orbit Shifters do!
 
Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.

Ron Kimball said:
As much as I like Jeff and his company I suspect the Danley's win on resale value assuming you can get them for not much more than the JTR's. On paper they look to be pretty comparable in output and efficiency :) .
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As a rule, DSL subs cost quite a bit more than JTR product. There are unique features in Tom's designs using the tapped horn approach v. Jeff's slightly more traditional rear loaded design-albeit with a mother of an 18" driver. In the end, Tom's win out for performance, but at a price.

Now, I own a pair of Orbit Shifters. I've owned Growlers. I've listened to Lab Subs in various quantities. I've listened to many of Tom's designs over the years. I own a pair of Servodrive subs still.

I will say the Orbit Shifters are a serious bang for the buck. There is a DJ here in Chicago who owns a pair also, and he's borrowed mine for a couple of gigs. I've used mine for a hip hop act in that 650 seater I do a lot of work in, underpowered, and I was shaking the chandeliers, loose paint, dust...it was pretty sick.

One cool prospect-they are relatively small for what they are. I would think they'd be a great candidate for subwoofer arrays(small footprint, great cost/price ratio, pretty lightweight at 160lbs.), so you could buy a dozen and do some cool stuff.

Silas, you should get some Orbit Shifters to demo.

Best regards,

John
 
Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.

What's your budget? That's the ultimate deciding factor. And do you really need tour grade subs, or will MI subs get the job done? If you want the ultimate output, I'd look at the d&b B2 or L'Acoustic SB28. Honestly, not much else is going to give you "better" output than the LAB's in a much smaller size. I've beat on many different subs, and those are the ones(commercially available) I like the best.

Also, FWIW- I've used the JTR stuff and have not been impressed.


Evan
 
Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.

Evan Kirkendall said:
What's your budget? That's the ultimate deciding factor. And do you really need tour grade subs, or will MI subs get the job done? If you want the ultimate output, I'd look at the d&b B2 or L'Acoustic SB28. Honestly, not much else is going to give you "better" output than the LAB's in a much smaller size. I've beat on many different subs, and those are the ones(commercially available) I like the best.

Also, FWIW- I've used the JTR stuff and have not been impressed.


Evan
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Agree, Do not purchase the JTRs - unless you want to be busy every single weekend with no time off for several years ( like my biz has been ) I hate these cabinets...
 
Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.

I'm trying to understand what the real issue is:

A) You need something smaller than a LAB.
B) You need something easier to move than a LAB.
C) you need something "new" to try out.

If B is the issue then I'm curious if, in the past, you have built your LABs with kickback wheels. I've found my LABs to be quite easy to move around by myself with the kickback wheels. The issues I have are when I want to stack them rather than use them side by side (stacking usually takes 2 guys) and the fact that I can't put "riders" on them when I move them.

If C is the issue then I think you need to sign up for some demos and save some more pennies.

-drew
 
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